Future of GM ?

[skyfan]

I read today the the Delaware, Maryland GM union voted not to accept GM's wage and pension reduction demands. I also saw on the financial page GM errored in their 2001 earnings reports causing their stock to drop even more. With the threat of GM going bankrupt, I am concerned about getting parts and service for my Sky as well as my other GM vehicles. What will happen to the blue book value? Who will honor any warrantee work?

[sky_vue]

A company as large as GM does not go gently into that good night. Be assured, that with the assets that GM currently holds the stakes in various technologies and companies, they will undoubtedly still be around when your grandchildren by their first Saturn Cosmos, a future two seater personal space transport.

I doubt we will be left out in the wind.

[rwood411]

My dealer says the Saturn Cosmos is due to come out Fall of 2107, but you never can trust the dealer.

[usmc]

Originally Posted by rwood411

My dealer says the Saturn Cosmos is due to come out Fall of 2107, but you never can trust the dealer.

HEHEHEHHE

[kingarthur]

"I read today the the Delaware, Maryland GM union voted not to accept GM's wage and pension reduction demands. I also saw on the financial page GM errored in their 2001 earnings reports causing their stock to drop even more. With the threat of GM going bankrupt,"
Apparently you missed the results of the union vote - it passed. Aside from the fact that GM has 20 billion or so in the bank, a bankruptcy would result , in my opinion, in a much stronger company. With the 800 pound UAW gorilla on its back, it's got no chance, long term. And shortly the Chinese cars are coming -
expected to list 35% below Japanese autos. How about a $14K Solstice? Or
a $25K Corvette?

[Thraxz]

Originally Posted by kingarthur

Aside from the fact that GM has 20 billion or so in the bank, a bankruptcy would result , in my opinion, in a much stronger company. With the 800 pound UAW gorilla on its back, it's got no chance, long term.

Agreed.

[Rick Tinley Park]

Originally Posted by rwood411

My dealer says the Saturn Cosmos is due to come out Fall of 2107, but you never can trust the dealer.

A calender will be coming out soon that you can download to your computer as a screen-saver...

[Thraxz]

Originally Posted by rwood411

My dealer says the Saturn Cosmos is due to come out Fall of 2107, but you never can trust the dealer.

The number was right, but for the wrong vehicle. The actually vehicle was the Saturn Sky.

[rick112]

GM lost 1 Billion dollars last year! Thats a lot of $$$ But they have a 20 Billion dollar reserve. Perhaps instead of screwing with employee benefits they should put out more products like the Sky and Solstice that people want and put them out at a price people can afford.

Also more fuel efficient vehicles would be nice. I went to a Pontiac dealer. All the SUV's in the same class as the Escape have really big engines. And they don't have a hybrid on the market yet.

Instead of screwing with the employees perhaps they should just dump some dead wood at the top. Get some innovative thinkers in there instead.

[reedred]

Originally Posted by rick112

GM lost 1 Billion dollars last year! Thats a lot of $$$ But they have a 20 Billion dollar reserve. Perhaps instead of screwing with employee benefits they should put out more products like the Sky and Solstice that people want and put them out at a price people can afford.

Also more fuel efficient vehicles would be nice. I went to a Pontiac dealer. All the SUV's in the same class as the Escape have really big engines. And they don't have a hybrid on the market yet.

Instead of screwing with the employees perhaps they should just dump some dead wood at the top. Get some innovative thinkers in there instead.

Those employee benefits and pensions are a major factor in how much GM's products cost for consumers. If those costs could be brought under control to levels matching other industries, then GM could lop off a couple grand from the price of an average vehicle.

I love how people get mad at companies for "screwing" with employees when they're losing money, as though the two things are completely unrelated. Modern-day unions for the most part are just enourmous parasites that latch onto hosts and suck them dry with no regard for their fiscal health.

[doberman]

It's call PROTECTION. Seems there was another organization that flourished with PROTECTION. Of COURSE they are not involved in the unions now, but somehow the same tactics and practices are. Seems with this system, it guarantees the rank and file vote "the right way." Too bad Jack and Bobby didn't.

[Angelqute1]

Okay, okay, okay folks, JUST HOLD UP!!!!!

I am an Employee Benefits Consultant.... I work for one of the largest brokerage firms in the nation and I am a proffesional in terms of group healthcare and employee benefits. And before you all start becoming politicians, be sure that you know what you're talking about when firing up about how GM manages or handles their benefits. Mind you GM is NOT my client, but they are only following suit to what Ford and other large companies are doing. Free benefits is a HAS BEEN. And any of you on an HMO, I would bet money, don't know JACK about your benefits, and even more importantly know very much about the current cost of healthcare. From a clinical standpoint, after years of being a nurse most people don't see a doctor regularly, eat incorrectly and take time to make sure they're taking care of themselves until they have the Heart Attack, Stroke, etc... and have their employer have a 100+% loss ratio from premium to claims paid. So, like I said.... if you wanna talk healthcare insurance and why employers need to cut back, it's simply to create awareness and good consumerism to insured employees. It's about time we start understanding our own healthcare and take some ownership. GM is doing what they need to do, maybe people will take care of themselves.

[SKY Sailor]

If I remember correctly, unions were created to protect the workers back in the day when there were no child laws, safety laws etc. It changed the work places for the better in those terms. What has happened since then is an argument for the ages. I am grateful that my employer pays part of my benefits, and I pay for AFLAC to cover other things. At least we have a choice.
Cheers,
Jill

[rick112]

Originally Posted by reedred

Those employee benefits and pensions are a major factor in how much GM's products cost for consumers. If those costs could be brought under control to levels matching other industries, then GM could lop off a couple grand from the price of an average vehicle.

I love how people get mad at companies for "screwing" with employees when they're losing money, as though the two things are completely unrelated. Modern-day unions for the most part are just enourmous parasites that latch onto hosts and suck them dry with no regard for their fiscal health.

Cutting into what unions have worked so hard to attain is an easy fix. We should all be thankful for the union movement. If it wasn't for unions we'd be in a lot worse place. I doubt that the average person on this site would be able to afford to look at a Sky or even be able to afford the computer you are using to read this post.

It's easy for us to knock unions from this side of the fence but my grandfather was an Teamster. He worked for $5/week when a man was lucky to get a job. When the employers didn't really give a thought to weather you lived or died.

Unions are there to protect employees from blood sucking companies that don't care who they hurt or kill. Profit is above all else. I've seen what big companies can do to people. Unions like any other organization have problems. We should be working to make them better and to protect them! They protect us.

[doberman]

All are valid points here. In order to compete (stay in business) a good percentage of our U.S. workers jobs have been sent overseas to those who will work for less. As the Chinese build their export autos for the U.S. market
(No unions) marketshare of U.S. auto mfgrs. will take a major HIT. Possibly so much so that retirement fund promises will not be met. I hope I'm wrong.
People love to bash WalMart because they have no unions and can offer the same goods for so much less. After all the bantering is over, people go to WalMart to buy the goods. Those that can't compete close their doors.

[reedred]

Originally Posted by rick112

It's easy for us to knock unions from this side of the fence but my grandfather was an Teamster. He worked for $5/week when a man was lucky to get a job. When the employers didn't really give a thought to weather you lived or died.

Unions are there to protect employees from blood sucking companies that don't care who they hurt or kill. Profit is above all else. I've seen what big companies can do to people. Unions like any other organization have problems. We should be working to make them better and to protect them! They protect us.

I'll be the first to agree that long ago when unions were organized to protect people from unsafe conditions and blatant exploitation, they were a very useful and positive thing. Now, however, the pendulum has swung way too far in the other direction- the blood sucking unions don't care who they bankrupt.

[rick112]

I want to reply to the last two posts. First Walmart sells crap! If I understand correctly they tell the manufacturer how much they are going to pay for a particular product and the manufacturer builds it for that price. They compromise on the quality of the product to build it for the stated price.

Second some unions have gotten out of control there is a real and constant battle between unions and management but if it wasn't for unions those jobs that are going to China and other places wouldn't have to. You and I would be doing them for $2/hour or less. And we'd be doing them in rather crappy working conditions. Unions set the standard for the rest.

My father in law worked for a large US company. This company didn't want Unions and treated their staff with extra special care. It was at that time a forward thinking company with good management and leadership. But the reason they had good conditions at that company was because of the Unions!

This isn't really the subject I want to talk about on this forum but please remember that weather you are in one or not, unions make your life better! The people in India taking IT jobs away and the people in China taking manufacturing jobs away don't have unions. Remember what Union Carbide did in India! Remember the sweat shops over seas. Remember the slave labour in China!

[richmcc]

Originally Posted by reedred

I'll be the first to agree that long ago when unions were organized to protect people from unsafe conditions and blatant exploitation, they were a very useful and positive thing. Now, however, the pendulum has swung way too far in the other direction- the blood sucking unions don't care who they bankrupt.

From what I have seen that pendulum has been swinging back to the corporations ever since Air Controllers strike in 1980. While most of us may not be working at sweat shops. For the past couple decades the protections for workers have been continually corroded.

• Agencies like EPA and OSHA are being stripped of thier staffing and power.
• Laws are being passed that make it extremely difficult for whistle blowers to come forward.
• Real wage for workers has been in decline as well.
• Corporations are continuosly reducing staffing for exempt workers and increasing the hours and work-load of those left without an increase in compensation.

I personally do not shop at Walmart, but not because they do not have a union (even though Walmart is the poster company for why we still need unions), but because how they treat there workers. They are constantly getting fined or sued for violation of labor laws, discrimination and under paying employees.

I do support and shop at Costco, which is also not a Union Shop, but pay and treat there employees very well.

Corporations have done an excellent job of convincing working America that unions are there enemies. Do not think for a second that corporations would not in a second take us back to sweat shops, company towns, deadly working conditions, hiring children, etc... Just look at what they are doing in other countries cause they can get away with it.

JMHO ! <grin>

[rick112]

It's easy to judge unions from the comfort of your living room. From the comfort of our grandparents hard work! I don't want my children having to work at 12 years old. I don't want to die at my job and I don't want others to die because of my work.

I work for myself. I have a number of clients. Believe me the sweat shop is still in existence. It's driven by the $$$. Greed is king. What will be next? One grandfather fought for freedom as a union member. The other fought in for freedom in WWI.

Part of the reason I like the Sky is it is made in North America. I really don't care what millionaires own the companies. I care about the workers in the plants that do the jobs.

Do take a look around you. At what is really happening! Government is no longer the enemy. It's the big corporation. Some companies have yearly budgets that are as big as some states and as big as many countries. They have power that is frightening.

Learn from history. Unions need direction but they give the little person (man and woman) power in their lives. Letting bad things happen to unions may not affect your life but it may affect your children and will certinly affect the lives of their children.

[sky_vue]

We have all gotten way ahead of ourselves here..
I know there are people with chips about unions
I know there are people with praise for them..
But you are forgetting the really big question. the One the started the thread.

That is:
Is this guy going to get parts for his SKY or not.

I think yes.

[richmcc]

I agree, on the original topic, since the Union is in Maryland and Delaware is there any chance of a strike and our Sky's being delayed any further.

[nighttripper]

I really don't think that legacy cost to the big three is the real problem. Globalism,free trade not fair trade, are probably a larger contributor. How do you compete in a market when you are restricted and have limited access