Making a SKY calendar

[Karen]

Hello.

I have a couple questions about putting a Sky calendar together.

1. Who do I get permission from at Saturn, to put together a calendar?

2. Do I need to pay this forum, paid sponsor, to sell my Calendars here?

Thanks for your help in advance.

[ggccg]

Well. Maybe we can have a rational discussion here without somebody thinking every word of every post is directed at him/her.

[RickyD]

SkyBaby already makes one ask her

[ggccg]

Originally Posted by RickyD

SkyBaby already makes one ask her

Karen tried, but somebody had the thread locked.

[ChiliSky]

Karen, I would ask Aubrey (skybaby) since she has made several calendar's she would be the one to ask. Good luck on your calendar, can not wait to see it......

[ggccg]

Originally Posted by ChiliSky

Karen, I would ask Aubrey (skybaby) since she has made several calendar's she would be the one to ask. Good luck on your calendar, can not wait to see it......

I think Karen wants advice from somebody who knows what he/she is talking about when it comes to copyright issues. Some people think that it is perfectly fine to take a photo off the internet and use it any old way they choose. This (with a couple of specific exceptions) is not the case. Every creation carries an automatic copyright. You don't need to fill out any paperwork, pay any fees, or even place a copyright notice on the creation for it to be protected. Anyone who reproduces a copyrighted work without the permission of the copyright owner can be sued.

[ChiliSky]

That would look great, lots of Sky's from the Miami Beach area, bet there are lots of places that you can get great shots with your group down there......my only suggestion, make sure pictures are taken with higher than 6mp's, they come out much better in 8x10 or larger........good luck.

[Spag]

Originally Posted by ChiliSky

my only suggestion, make sure pictures are taken with higher than 6mp's, they come out much better in 8x10 or larger........good luck.

Great advice, and something that many people don't think about.

I have a wide format printer so people ask for me to print things for them all of the time... but it only works well for high-res images...

The better the resolution, the better the print!

[solli4me]

Karen, Spag makes a very good point. If the size of the calendar page is 11 X 8, you will want a jpeg that it formatted to that size so it fills the page.
3500 - 4500 pixels is the norm.

Many gals sent 1500 -2500, or whatever they had, and since I wanted a "full bleed" edge to edge, I had to fill part of the page with color. Also, if you crop the photo you might run into problems filling the page.

I didn't have to pay anyone since it was for a non-profit and the gals volunteered. There are printers who will give you a reduced rate for fund raiser calendars. Once you pay them their cost, the rest of the proceeds go toward your charity.

If you're doing this for your own profit, I think you might have to become a supporting vendor of the forum.

[Karen]

solli4me....thank you....you have been so helpful answering my questions and so nice! You seem to be very much in the 'know' about putting a calendar together.


I find this very interesting....
If you're doing this for your own profit, I think you might have to become a supporting vendor of the forum.

[ggccg]

Originally Posted by Karen

solli4me....thank you....you have been so helpful answering my questions and so nice! You seem to be very much in the 'know' about putting a calendar together.


I find this very interesting....
If you're doing this for your own profit, I think you might have to become a supporting vendor of the forum.

I wonder why nobody will give you an answer on this. I seem to recall that they told YellowSky he had to be a supporting vendor when he asked about producing a calendar a year and a half or so ago.

[ChiliSky]

Karen, I know it is the weekend and some of the mods are not on but why dont you just PM a few of them, they could tell you or get back to you when they find out.
So what are your plans for the calendar? Will it be just in the area that you are in? Or all of Florida? What about sister Sol pics?

[solli4me]

Your "sister Sols" just jogged a few loose nuts in my memory

We're producing another calendar this year for 2009 - it leads into the 2009 North America Solstice Sky Meet in Colorado and proceeds go to the Susan G. Komen for the Cure.

KAPPAS for the Cause really rock!

Here's a link to the thread if you want to participate:


http://http://www.skyroadster.com/fo...09/#post318391

[Ahnuld]

Ya want the legal answer..... ya probably have to get a license agreement with GM/Saturn to use their cars in an image that is being sold/mass produced.

But... The calendars being done here are low volume and typically for charity. Like ol' Bill Clinton there's prob a bit of "Dont ask, dont tell". Is there any real benefit to GM being heavy handed against fanatical car buyers who are promoting the cars and helping charities? But no guarantees that it can continue.

Now... if you are gonna go with a professional calendar and print 10,000 copies to be sold at Hallmarks Card Stores around the country, then ya def need a license.

Two related stories that come to mind:
1) the world famous "Campbell Soup" paintings by Andy Warhol where done long before people were making millions off of merchandising... originally was just an artist's stroke of genius. Campbells Soup has embraced them as it helped define the soup as a world-wide icon. BUT... as you can see in this link to the Museum of Modern Art... the Andy Warhol Foundation has a license with Campbell's Soup Company.
MoMA.org | The Collection | Andy Warhol. Campbell's Soup Cans. 1962
Those paintings are probably generating some serious revenue in prints, memorabilia, T-shirts... etc.... I would imagine Campbells sees a cut.
An interesting read from a Law Professor: TeacherArtExchange (Education at the Getty) - [teacherartexchange] Warhol and use of trademark and photographs

2) Now regarding how "touchy" a company can be...A few years ago a co-worker of mine registered a website named similar to a beach themed Entertainer / Restaraunt Owner. Was going to be a fan site. Before he even had the site up and running... he got hit with a friendly cease and desist letter! I never actually saw the letter... but this was his story at least.


This post is not to be construed as legal advice, and is only a personal opinion. The only true advice I can give is that if you are that concerned, check with an attorney who specializes in this subject matter.
Do some googling... I found this: http://www.photosecrets.com/links.law.html

From someone who has watched more than his share of LA Law and Boston Legal, so take it with a big grain of salt. Hopefully around the rim of a margarita glass.

[ihawk95]

OK, my 2 cents...

The Sol Gals calendar was actually featured in an edition of GM's Pontiac Performance Magazine. So either Solli asked permission from GM (sounds like she didn't), or GM thought it was great because they got free advertising and the proceeds from the calendar when to a great cause.

My guess is, if you give someone permission to make a calendar using a picture of you and your car...or you provide the pictures...then GM probably can't do much about it.

I'm not going to comment on SkyBaby's calendars. I'm sure she already has and this thread has been purged accordingly.

Probably would be cool to have a Sky Girls/Guy's calendar! Go for it!!

[jel]

Not really sure what the drama is about, but I was asked if my pics could be used and I agreed for a calendar. Whatever soap opera is going on behind the scenes, I have no idea. Have a great week

[xmicro_Redline]

Originally Posted by Ahnuld

Ya want the legal answer..... ya probably have to get a license agreement with GM/Saturn to use their cars in an image that is being sold/mass produced.

But... The calendars being done here are low volume and typically for charity. Like ol' Bill Clinton there's prob a bit of "Dont ask, dont tell". Is there any real benefit to GM being heavy handed against fanatical car buyers who are promoting the cars and helping charities? But no guarantees that it can continue.

Now... if you are gonna go with a professional calendar and print 10,000 copies to be sold at Hallmarks Card Stores around the country, then ya def need a license.

Two related stories that come to mind:
1) the world famous "Campbell Soup" paintings by Andy Warhol where done long before people were making millions off of merchandising... originally was just an artist's stroke of genius. Campbells Soup has embraced them as it helped define the soup as a world-wide icon. BUT... as you can see in this link to the Museum of Modern Art... the Andy Warhol Foundation has a license with Campbell's Soup Company.
MoMA.org | The Collection | Andy Warhol. Campbell's Soup Cans. 1962
Those paintings are probably generating some serious revenue in prints, memorabilia, T-shirts... etc.... I would imagine Campbells sees a cut.
An interesting read from a Law Professor: TeacherArtExchange (Education at the Getty) - [teacherartexchange] Warhol and use of trademark and photographs

2) Now regarding how "touchy" a company can be...A few years ago a co-worker of mine registered a website named similar to a beach themed Entertainer / Restaraunt Owner. Was going to be a fan site. Before he even had the site up and running... he got hit with a friendly cease and desist letter! I never actually saw the letter... but this was his story at least.


This post is not to be construed as legal advice, and is only a personal opinion. The only true advice I can give is that if you are that concerned, check with an attorney who specializes in this subject matter.
Do some googling... I found this: http://www.photosecrets.com/links.law.html

From someone who has watched more than his share of LA Law and Boston Legal, so take it with a big grain of salt. Hopefully around the rim of a margarita glass.

I agree with Ahnuld and add a little more.

All you would need to do in order to use a Saturn Sky in a 10,000 Halmark store selling run, is clone out ANY NAME or Badging. I know this because all ad agencies do it all the time. I have cloned Nike logo's out of sneakers in a very popular clothing manufacturers ads for legal reasons, but they were still clearly NIKE sneakers. But of course, check with a lawyer to be safe, if you plan on a Mass sale. If I am not mistaken also, context is important! If you sell it as a Club calendar for a car club, and all owners consent, I do not think GM can say anything, it is not being marketed as a "SKY" calendar, but is as a club calendar.


Bullet Points:
•*Charity is a full out go
• If you take pictures of Cars in a Public place, like today, you own the sole rights and do not need the owners permission to use it (NO PLATE OR PERSONs FACE CAN BE CLEARLY VISIBLE)
• If you take a picture in some persons driveway, or with someone standing visible in it get written permission before using it for a profit sale.


In most cases, it is not worth the extreme cost of an actual court case for someone to sue you unless you have made a ton of money that they can get a percentage of. I think in most cases they would send you a warning letter.

In closing, I would call a lawyer and get some sound legal advise if you intend to go full out commercial with this. You would need to be a supporting vendor to sell those here.

If you are looking to do a club calendar, just ask the members and that I think you can sell here under the regional catagories and I do not think you would need to be a supporting member, ask a mod

If you are doing a charity thing, get permission from people you photograph, or that supply you photo's and go for it.

Good Luck!

[solli4me]

In 2000, my son built a Dave Matthews Website called Dave Matthews Band - AmIDreaming.org. (He hasn't attended to it for two years.)

Dave and his band members were aware of the site, approved it, comped him tickets and knew him by name. He was VIP at the Central Park benefit concert that DMB gave to raise money for the NYC school system. It was very cool.

Anyway, Noel had been making CD covers from the show photos, he would post them to the site and give them away to whoever asked for them. One day, he's in a store in NY and what does he see? His "bootlegged" CD designs being sold for ten dollars.

A cease & desist letter followed and everyone moved on.

BTW, Dave Matthews is playing a "Stand Up for a Cure" benefit concert at Madison Square Garden on September 10th. Proceeds go to Sloan Kettering.

[ggccg]

Originally Posted by xmicro_Redline

I agree with Ahnuld and add a little more.

•*Charity is a full out go

So if Karen makes a calendar to benefit endangered manatees in Florida, you think she can use any photo she wants without receiving permission from the copyright holder?

I don't think that would be a winning argument in court. While courts may take into consideration a not for profit use in assessing damages, it is in no way a gimme.

See: Louis Vuitton Sues Darfur Fundraiser for Copyright Infringement | TorrentFreak
CharityVillage® Research: Legal issues beginning to impact charitable fundraising on the Internet
Warner/DC comics shuts down children's cancer charity auction over trademark - Boing Boing

But while we're on the subject of charity... and just out of curiosity... if a claim of charity is made to the owners of this website in order to induce them to waive the Supporting Vendor requirement for sale of merchandise, what audit reporting does the forum require to insure that funds are acutally going to charitable purposes?