Brake Issue on CNN

[Showtyme5]

Government opens investigation into GM sports cars. - Mar. 10, 2008


Apparently, enough people complained.........I haven't experienced this yet

[marlboromike]

That 20 thousand figure is erroneous obviously...between the GXP and the R/L, its lucky if there r 7 thousand turbos.

[Showtyme5]

I bought my Sky Saturday while knowing about this issue. It wasn't a big enough deal for me to not buy this car, especially after test driving it a number of times and not experiencing the problem. Since buying, I haven't yet started the car up and then taken off........but, I have started it up and pressed the brake pedal to see if it's mushy and it is not (pretty much do this every time). However, I'm not going to take chances with this and am letting my car run for about 30 seconds to a minute before taking off. We'll see what gets done about this issue.

[JustMike]

Originally Posted by marlboromike

That 20 thousand figure is erroneous obviously...between the GXP and the R/L, its lucky if there r 7 thousand turbos.

Don't forget that this is only 08 and forward as this was a running change so I don't believe that the 07 turbos are in the mix at all ... which would make that number a whole lot lower ...

[ihawk95]

Originally Posted by JustMike

Don't forget that this is only 08 and forward as this was a running change so I don't believe that the 07 turbos are in the mix at all ... which would make that number a whole lot lower ...

A few people have posted production numbers on the Sol forum...I'm thinking it's only 30,000 or so total cars. The turbos are only a fraction of that.

[xmicro_Redline]

This is why i NEVER listen to the news ..... they are so full of sh!t.

But I do hope that GM steps up very fast and goes back to what they were doing in 07!

[mbeardsley]

I'm both happy and sad to see this...

Happy in that maybe the bad press will force GM to issue a fix.
Sad in that it will tarnish the reputation of the car in general.

Just like the Fiero got a bad reputation for engine-fires (even though it was only a problem on the 1984 4-cyl). When you say something about a Fiero to the average guy, he says "oh yeah, that was the car with the engine fires".

I just don't want the Sky to be "that car with the bad brakes".

I'm still surprised that GM let it get to this point. The damage to their reputation has got to be costing more than a fix would have been.

[WishfulThinking]

I was thinking about the same Fiero comparison.

I think this is worse in a way, since they tried to sweep it under the rug with the "It's normal for this car" routine. Really?!?! Are you sure that's what you want to say?!?!

[Showtyme5]

Well, I started my car up at work today after it sat there all day long (8-9 hours) and took off without waiting the minute I usually do. Brakes seemed fine. Hit 'em and they were maybe a little mushy but if I hadn't read about it on this board I never would've been able to notice it. Maybe some cars are more impacted than others?

[WOLFSKY]

Since I read it in this forum, I ALWAYS warm up my car no matter what for like 30 seconds or so...

[marlboromike]

Everyone stop whining...do u know how many recalls Honda and Toyota get let alone other car makers...its growing pains.

[mbeardsley]

Originally Posted by marlboromike

Everyone stop whining...do u know how many recalls Honda and Toyota get let alone other car makers...its growing pains.

I'm not complaining about a recall, I'm complaining about a LACK of recall. GM has known about this problem for several months and has responded only with "don't worry, it's normal".

They issued a recall for drivers seats that wiggle a bit, but they don't want to issue a recall to fix a braking problem. Seems strange to me. Maybe they already know of a couple of fatalities related to these brakes and are afraid of lawsuits if they admit that a problem exists.

I have a 2008 redline, and though I can feel a difference in the braking at startup, it's never been as bad for me as some people have reported. I would like to get it fixed though.

Some people have said, "Well, you bought the car that way. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have bought it."

That's fine, except for the fact that I ordered my car before the 2008s started production, and was never told about the braking issue when I bought it.

[Skip]

There was no recall on the seats. There was a TSB which is a whole differant story....Skip....

[mbeardsley]

Yep Skip, you are right. I stand corrected.

However, I'd be willing to live with a TSB on the brakes as well, though I don't think the fix will be quite that simple.

Now that the "potential brake issue" has been publicly identified, I would think that GM would be in a hurry to correct it.

Even if they were "certain it's not a problem", I would think that protecting their reputation would be more important than the cost of fixing a few thousand cars.

Remember how bad a beating Ford took with the whole exploding Pinto problem? Does GM really want to be known as the company who makes cars that can't stop?

With this kind of thing, public perception is far more important than the fact that this problem occurs in only a very small number of their cars.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens now.

[MeToo]

I took the car in when I first had the brake problem. I explained it over the phone and they said nothing. When I took it in he was like "oh, just wait a minute".

Odd.

I do start my car and pull it out of the garage and then wait. I just pull out slowly. The brakes still work, just squishy and then SUDDEN. Makes me say ooft if I forget.

And it only happens in the cold. I wasn't told about it either. I think it's quite odd but it would not keep me from buying the car.

[RedHeaded RedLine]

Originally Posted by Showtyme5

Government opens investigation into GM sports cars. - Mar. 10, 2008
Apparently, enough people complained.........I haven't experienced this yet

"The government is investigating whether the GM 2008 Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky sports cars have enough braking power for their turbo engines."
Makes it sound like the car is too fast for the brakes. That fits right into their narrative... Filthy liberals. Don’t believe the hype! –J

[mbeardsley]

I found this on the NHTSA website about the brake investigation...


Make / Models : Model/Build Years:
PONTIAC / SOLSTICE 2008

SATURN / SKY 2008

Manufacturer : GENERAL MOTORS CORP.
Component :
SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:ANTILOCK
SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:POWER ASSIST:HYDRAULIC
SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:ANTILOCK:CONTROL UNIT/MODULE
SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:POWER ASSIST:VACUUM

Date Investigation Opened : March 6, 2008
Date Investigation Closed : Open
Summary:
THE OFFICE OF DEFECTS INVESTIGATION (ODI) HAS RECEIVED 40 COMPLAINTS ALLEGING INADEQUATE BRAKE POWER ASSIST IN MODEL YEAR (MY) 2008 PONTIAC SOLSTICE AND SATURN SKY VEHICLES WITH 2.0L TURBO ENGINES. THE COMPLAINANTS ALLEGE EXCESSIVE BRAKE PEDAL EFFORT IS REQUIRED TO STOP THE VEHICLE ON INITIAL APPLICATIONS FOLLOWING A COLD START, TYPICALLY IN A DRIVEWAY OR PARKING LOT. ODI IS AWARE OF ONE CRASH THAT MAY HAVE RESULTED FROM THE ALLEGED DEFECT. THE BRAKING SYSTEM IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES USES THE STABILITY CONTROL MODULE PUMP TO BOOST HYDRAULIC PRESSURE AT THE WHEELS DURING CONDITIONS OF LOW BOOSTER VACUUM, SUCH AS DURING THE ENGINE WARM UP PERIOD. GM ISSUED A TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN (#07-05-25-007) IN DECEMBER 2007 RELEASING A REVISED CALIBRATION FOR THE ELECTRONIC BRAKE CONTROL MODULE TO ADDRESS COMPLAINTS OF EXTRA EFFORT TO DEPRESS THE BRAKE PEDAL AFTER THE VEHICLE HAD NOT BEEN OPERATED FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD. A PRELIMINARY EVALUATION HAS BEEN OPENED TO ASSESS THE SCOPE, FREQUENCY AND SAFETY CONSEQUENCES OF THE ALLEGED DEFECT.


Note that they say that GM issued a TSB for the brake calibration. Has anyone here had that done, if so, has it helped ?

I haven't seen anyone mention a TSB for the brakes yet. All I've heard from Saturn is that "it's normal".

[Celt03]

I would like to get my hands on a copy so I can take it to my dealer's service manager. They are still saying it's "normal".

[LOVE CHILI RED]

Originally Posted by Celt03

I would like to get my hands on a copy so I can to my dealer's service manager. They are still saying it's "normal".

It is normal, they all have the brake issue. The sales person warned us about it when we were first looking at the car. He even said that they had one on the floor that hadn't been started for a few weeks and they couldn't stop fast enough and hit another car in the show room. He said wait 30 seconds and it's not a problem. We've had our R/L Sky for 4 weeks and it sits in the garage until weekends and it has never been a problem. That said, I still wait about 30 seconds before I back it out of the garage. Bottom line, no big deal. At 85 it stops on a dime and that's where the brakes count!

[WishfulThinking]

A definition of "EXTENDED PERIOD" would be nice. I wouldn't consider overnight an extended period. A week, I could understand, but not what some people here are reporting.

[Bogie]

Originally Posted by mbeardsley

I haven't seen anyone mention a TSB for the brakes yet. All I've heard from Saturn is that "it's normal".

Mentioned here:
Brake probs. TSB #

Referenced on workorder here:
"SVC BRAKE SYSTEM" Message on DIC

Based on above two feedbacks, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

Now the engineer in me is churning with nothing to go on. They obviously developed that TSB based on their own test or assessments. The engineers are or were working it. Makes me wonder what they're thinking, what they think the problem is, and why they think the change makes a difference. Or is it management breathing down their necks for a fix....so....engineering comes up with a fix. Whether the engineers expect it to work or not might not be the issue, it's just that management wants a fix...so....we'll give you one. Not sure if that's the case, but it could be. I've seen it before.