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Couple of things

7K views 53 replies 10 participants last post by  expostdelirium 
#1 ·
Thankfully, the interior of Grace Jones is not the red and black, but all black. Why? I prefer the "normalness" of the all-black, but I thought redlines had the red and black seats. What gives?

After an uneventful trip home from the dealership, I moved my car back today to see if there had been any leaks, and it seems that there's been a small leak of what looks to be transmission fluid. How sick should I feel? I feel pretty nervous right now. Give me worst-case/best-case, and range of dollar amounts if possible. I drove it around then put it back after finding the leak. I haven't checked on it since - too scared/sick/sad.

Hope it's not too bad.
 
#28 ·
I took my car to 1 of the 2 local dealerships that deal with GM (the Pontiac one), and had a diagnostic blahblahblah. When I find the papers that outline what was done I can post what they say, and I can ask more educated questions.

1. My heater fan had stopped working a couple of weeks ago, they fixed it and it works as it was working before.
2. The ignition recall work hadn't been done on my one, so it is going to be scheduled in to have it done.
3. It was found during the pressure test that I need to replace the water pump. I don't understand why my "normal" mechs didn't find anything, but the dealership mechanic, pulled the car that was in front of his bench out, and showed me where it had leaked, and it was about a foot toward the passenger side than it is in my garage. The cost for them to do it is ~$1400. What are the pros/cons of having the dealershipp do it? They have the expertise and the tools. The guaranteed work, parts, etc, and the peace of mind that comes with having it done by the pros? I think it would be around 800 at my normal mechanics. I also asked another garage for an estimate on the work: I should hear from them tomorrow.
4. I noticed a small crack in my winshield'!! I have contacted a couple of places and am waiting for an estimate from one. One place quoted me `$120 plus tax.

A house I've been trying to sell, might finally have a contract/plan in place so I can likely afford to have the pump taken care of at the dealership, but I guess I want to know if I should.

The cost to find out about numbers 1 through 3 above? $118. Sure the ignition recall should be free, but the resistor fan deal was a thrown in by the dealership, and the 118 was the "diagnostic" fee. I feel like these guys are trying to make a loyal customer out of me, and that goes a long way with me.

I'm just wanting to get this all sorted so that I can enjoy this car dependably all spring and all summer long. I also want to be able to make the Kentucky get-together. I'm honestly more focused on making Kentucky than anything else.
 
#29 ·
The biggest part about changing the water pump is locking the drive chain in place when changing the pump. If it slips while you're changing the pump, you will need to have the front engine cover removed and have the chain reset. IF you trust your local shop enough to do it and they have experience with Ecotecs, go for it. But if they don't, I'd only trust the dealership. They can still screw it up, but at least they will take care of it if they do and it is less likely to happen.
 
#30 ·
My shop would fix it if when, er, if they screwed it up, but I honestly have more faith in the dealership to do it. The owner of my garage told me they've never had one of those in there, and he'd be nervous about the work.

I went back into the shop area at the dealership, and the old-ish guy back there sort of rolled his eyes, and not in a surly way, when I started asking about it. He sort of acted like it would be a dawdle and that he'd done it before. Told me they had the chain-tension tool, and that getting it done would be no problem.

The shop I'm waiting to hear back from is a pretty reputable shop and I have a close/trusted friend in common with the owner. They are both "pillars of the community" types, so the work would be guaranteed, and the pressure I could put on the owner via the other friend might work to my advantage.

I'm still leaning toward the dealership.
 
#33 ·
I would be nervous if the shop owner is nervous. Find someone that has done the work and/or will stand behind their crew. Help them out if needed.
 
#31 ·
Just had mine done at a local former Saturn dealership for $1100. The gave me a loner vehicle also since I lived 30 miles away. I'm very happy with the results. I looked around at other options too. My mechanic said it was a big job and I could tell he was nervous about doing it. He quoted around $900. End the end I was happy I went with the dealer. It gave me piece of mind that it would be done properly. Best of luck!
 
#34 ·
I've 90% ruled out my normal shop for the reason you mention, Endstate. My problem with the dealership is that I think $280 for OEM pump (from Denver) is a bit high, and they won't let me buy my own for them to put on. "Liability issues and....." B.F.S. If I get the OEM for cheaper, and they are still doing the labor and not trying to make money on the part, I don't see the difference. $1 in my pocket is better than $1 in theirs. I'm not greedy, but the owner isn't going to eat any better nor any worse if they don't charge me $280 for the part.
 
#35 ·
Dealership repair you get warranty with it. IF you can get the same kind of deal from the other shop( not likely ) then you could save costs with your parts buy outsourced from wherever. With the dealer repair, you get " their" costs on parts & labor. It is what it is. You can show them the OEM pricing from your source, but they are still not going to do it, because of their liability issue with that. Sure they could do it, to save you some money, your parts their labor, but with no warranty? Some dealer & mechanics will work with you some, and some dealers and mechanics won't. It's your money, you decide which piece of mind, you want to satisfy here. Theirs or yours?

To work on the Eco-Tech or not. Has dealer ever worked on the Kappa before? Has the shop ever worked on a Kappa before? Results of their work, owner comments about the workmanship preformed? Any return visits, to re-repair said work? Having had someone who has worked on the model before, compared to someone who has not, might just be the determining factor here for you to decide which way to go or not?

LAC
 
#36 ·
LAC Sky, your point about the warranty is well-taken, and I've considered that. I have contacted a couple of other shops and am waiting to hear back. I know that I'll be treated right by both of them, and that treatment will include a warranty, even if I bring my own. I'm not a control freak, but sometimes it's nice to have the illusion of control - esp when it comes to a few bucks: I might be penny wise and pound foolish, but I don't think so. I have always been under the impression that I CAN have it all, if I do some work.

The dealer has def worked on Kappa. They used to sell them, and they're the only place I've seen around here lately that's had one on their lot. I will look for some reviews or just ask the tech directly. I'm not scared of that. It's my money and their work. Fair deal.

I'll post when I find out more.
 
#37 ·
I contacted a local mechanic/exhaust specialist shop that came highly recommended (has done work for my buddy as well as my brother). He came back with 602 plus tax. He doesn't know how much more putting the thermostat into the mix will cost. Anyone have a feel for it, so I can kind of know? He's thinking it should add ~$250. Shouldn't be that much, right? Especially since he's already "in there"...
 
#39 ·
The problem I have seen with "bring your own" parts is how a warranty issue is handled. Was it a bad part or bad installation, and who decides which?
If you supply a bad part you will have to pay the additional labor for the replacement, but if the shop supplies it the whole cost should be on them.
Part of the mark-up on the part is the shop hedging against having to replace a failed part, so you are gambling your initial savings against the odds of failure.
 
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#40 ·
$1100. is nothing to shake a stick at. Expensive as hell, sure it is, car repair is Big Business. We all cringe at the sound of well.. we have found out the problem,.. and it's not good. Oh no that expensive feeling again, just hit my checkbook or the dent this will put into my credit card.

Warranty or lack there of. Let them F this up, it's all on them for the parts and labor. No SM likes a warranty repair return order. Piece of mind for the owner, is to get it fixed first, get it right second, and make sure I don't have to return to fix this again third. Let them deal with the problems and the time taken. Yes you do have to pay for it, but then again " your " not having to deal with it, or having your baby worked on by unknowns. Yes brand new right out of the box parts can be bad right from the mfg. It does happen, how will you know if your part is good, to begin with?

Thermostat replacement should be part of this repair, along with any suspect belts/hoses. How far or how much are you willing to spend/afford when it is torn down is the question? Do it now while all is apart. Nothing like going back or having another related issue with your cooling system, after the fact. No owner likes to throw money at fixing sh*t. Tight and on a budget, until I don't have a choice. What is the dealer warranty for this repair? 1 yr/12K or 90 days/3k miles? Watch for anything during the parts warranty period, that trips your trigger as to " that's not right, oh no I have to return to the dealer" for this problem again. You will thank yourself, for all the money you had to pony up front, when or if it comes to that return visit. Another diagnostic fee, another hour @ $105. a pop, oh no not this time I paid for that, the first time I was in here.

Hope you back up and running the twisty's soon.

LAC
 
#41 ·
I'm taking it to the well-respected local indy shop - not to my normal guys down the street. Comes with some sort of warranty. Part is 3yrs, I think. I'll iron it out with him before I let him take the car.

I told him what I'd gleaned from the info above about the thermostat. I don't like the cost, but I'm looking at it all as an investment in my future - in lots of ways. I want to make sure that I can make it to Lexington and everywhere and anywhere else I want to go. The car runs now, but I just don't want to take any chances with it for now.

I'll update with any info as it becomes available.
 
#44 · (Edited)
I'm thinking that's the case. I'll post w/ drive report as well as with the cost of adding the T-stat. $50 sounds good. "Ah hell, we just did it" sounds better. I'd pay the $50 gladly.

Turns out that one of my former students works in the shop, and asked the bossman if it was me. As I have developed a small crack in the windshield and since I know this kid's dad worked for a glass company I asked the shop guy about having the kid's dad check it out too. Then I asked who they'd suggest for the fender repair. It's only money...

Thank you so much for the quality and quantity of guidance that all of you have provided thus far. This is really a quality place.
 
#45 ·
Car was finished today, but I pick my car up tomorrow. $792 out-the-door: new water pump new thermostat, and some rando hose clamps, etc. Dunno if mine were rotten or what....the thermostat labor was $17 and change. Certainly a much better deal, and from a place that comes much more highly recommended than the dealership. I will have the dealership do the ignition warranty work though.

I was told that "The water pump was definitely leaking and the thermostat was degrading internally as well." Do I need to have them drain the coolant and use a different type? Is there anything I should ask when I go to pick it up?

Drive report tomorrow.
 
#47 ·
Under $800 that's not bad. No left arm/right leg price tag, good for you, and your bank account. I had a feeling the thermostat takes crap, after many years with old fluid still in there. Parts wear out. New pump, T stat, fluid and clamps you " should" be good to go, for now. Pay attention for the next month or so monitor temps. Any change, anything out of the ordinary to you, take it back. Might get an air bubble in there after this repair? Makes some runs, close to home, run it hard once or twice, pop the hood more than once a week too. Look for signs however small they might be to you. Your paid big bucks, make sure you get the satisfaction you deserve. Your shop will like you as a satisfied customer, with maybe a good rep to them, and any return visits by you and other work done on your Kappa. You build trust with a good shop/mech and they in turn with you.

You have old fluid from the factory in your car right now? I would change that asap. 5 years on the old dexcool, not a good thing imho. New fluid helps but a new pump + Tstat you should be able to make the trip to Lexington this year. Hot summer ahead, I think. Cool temps for now, but what if anything will happen when the temps outside hit 90? There might be the test for this repair.

LAC
 
#48 ·
RE: Cracked Windshield. I have several OEM WSs, and at least one will be a silent auction item at the National. Whether you want (and win) that one, or want to buy one of mine, having it installed here will save some money if you can wait.
 
#49 ·
For the coolant, most folks will tell you just go with Dexcool and you'll be fine. Me, I come from a time when Dexcool was considered Satan's Piss and was to be avoided at all costs. (What it did in a Grand Prix's coolant system 9 times out of 10 was horrible.) I switched to using Peak Global which has a slightly different formula over Dexcool (and most other Dexcool compliant coolants) and never had an issue. It's what I have in my system now and have had it in there ever since I did the turbo install last year.
 
#51 ·
Rather than PM, I'll post as it may be an answer to a general question.

No, you are not going to do better than $179 for price. The difference is that these are OEM, and you will likely get a reproduction at that price.
If you do get an OEM at that price you have done really well.

If the WS is not OEM, ask to inspect it before they install it. Actually, ask to inspect it anyway.
>Set it up where you can look through it as you would in the car, we call that an "installation angle inspection".
>Put something with both vertical and horizontal straight lines in the background. Light poles are good, windows and doors, a desk or table if it is indoors, just about anything.
>Look at the straight lines while moving around to see through different parts of the glass and at different angles. Concentrate on the parts you will look through as you drive.
>Check for distortion and/or waviness and things that look like bulls-eyes, all the things that you will hate to see while driving.
>Aftermarket glass is inspected to a much lower standard that OEM, so you have to do your own inspection.
If the glass isn't of good enough quality, don't accept it. If it is good enough, take it and be happy that you got a good deal.
 
#54 ·
If the WS is not OEM, ask to inspect it before they install it. Actually, ask to inspect it anyway.
>Set it up where you can look through it as you would in the car, we call that an "installation angle inspection".
>Put something with both vertical and horizontal straight lines in the background. Light poles are good, windows and doors, a desk or table if it is indoors, just about anything.
>Look at the straight lines while moving around to see through different parts of the glass and at different angles. Concentrate on the parts you will look through as you drive.
>Check for distortion and/or waviness and things that look like bulls-eyes, all the things that you will hate to see while driving.
>Aftermarket glass is inspected to a much lower standard that OEM, so you have to do your own inspection.
If the glass isn't of good enough quality, don't accept it. If it is good enough, take it and be happy that you got a good deal.
I took it to the shop last night, and told the guy that I wanted to inspect it before they put it in to make sure there weren't any imperfections that I wouldn't be able to live with. He gave me a time that he anticipated starting the job, but it was impossible for me to be there at that time. I told him that he was the professional, and that I would trust him if he'd give his word that he'd call if it wasn't something he'd put on his car. Got a call a bit after noon today and the guy told me that he noticed something that he didn't like ("right on the driver's side"), and that he'd ordered a different one, but that he'd put a "spare" (wtf? spare?! for a Solstice/Sky?!) on there for the weekend so I could still drive it and that I could bring it back in on Monday. I told him I'd be out of town so that I didn't need the car over the weekend. He told me that was great, that he would have it finished on Monday, and that he would leave it inside the shop 'til I can come get it.

2 points here:
1 - I am impressed with the professionalism of this guy. I have a friend that needs some windshield work done, guess where I'm sending him?
2 - Without the guidance of JohnWR, I might be stuck with a less-than-perfect windshield. I'm finding that the advice and learning that comes with participating in such a great forum is nearly priceless. The advice here reminds me/us that these cars mean a great deal to me/us, and that it is a good idea to remind those we trust to repair them that they mean a great deal to us. Thank you JohnWR, and everyone else that helps the rest of us keep these beauties on the road, looking good.
 
#52 ·
John has a point there. OEM parts or after market replacement, sometimes they don't fall under the same standards or compliance to factory specs. Find out first who makes it, for that price? Cracked WS can be a problem, with the local law enforcement in your area, if they chose to make it an issue.

Robo has a point too about the Dex cool. You do have " new " fluid in there for the moment. Better than having old fluid, and your in " testing mode " at this moment. IF you have another problem, the shop may have to drain the system again, you can always change it to Peak, if you so desire.

The DIC for the temps reading, mine never comes off that feature. I always monitor it, full time. I might scan through the other features now and then, but always return to the temps when driving. It's March cool temps for now. Wait until Memorial Day weekend, things getting a little hotter by then. Hard run on the system, after a wait. Not right after the repair, at this point your still not sure, if this has fixed everything. Different driving conditions can change the temps in a heartbeat. Stop and go traffic with little or no air to the radiator, uphill mountain strain, or high summer heat.... I see it all the time in mine. 194-205 or there about is normal. You get above 225 again, I would imho wonder if it stays there, is this a concern to take it back to the shop?

The shop, and former student there. That is a plus in your favor. If you like their work, let them know with a comment to their web page, or by written letter, so others ( kappa or not ) can see your satisfaction with their work so far.


Back running the twistys...smile on face... when will the top down weather get here, for some of us.

LAC
 
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