EXTREMELY PISSED OFF, car isn't starting.

[marlboromike]

It's time for a group

[MidniteBlues]

Originally Posted by marlboromike

It's time for a group

ABSOLUTELY!! I for one did not hammer Antonio just mentioned an observation & in-fact gave very much sympathy right off on my first post.. He being frustrated on the car not starting is understandable and perhaps NOT related to the many mods. At the same time, I thought, it is a good opportunity to let the newbs know that perhaps mods under warranty is not a wise thing to do, unless you are willing to "bite the bullet" should something happen down the road. Antonio is smart enough and very much a nice guy, I agree, and he went into these "upgrades" with his eyes wide open. What got me to respond were 2 of his comments, the first was from the initial post "In case anyone from GM is watching......YOUR CUSTOMER IS FED UP. I am to the point of getting out of this car and into something else". and then this comment "I'm kind of reminded of Pitcom right now...." Which in hind sight are not really related (maybe) to his mods to date. Especially for sure the transmission problems. I am not sure how many others have had issues down shifting from 5th to 4th, and I guess it would depend on many factors of when the down shifting was done and at what speeds. Driving habits must also be considered, not that he drives weird or anything like that. I wouldn't know since i have never met or driven with Antonio. I'm sure if not done correctly, and if anyone forces the shifting issue improperly you could "possibly" blow that tranny right outa the water. Heck, if approaching R/L in 5th gear, I don't think the car would ever let you down shift anyways into 4th. Being that I have an auto, to us it is not a problem or issue.

Never the less, I am on Antonio's side and certainly give him the benefit of the doubt, however, my sincere sympathies might not also be felt by his dealer... I certainly hope this "not starting issue" IS a minor one, and he (we) could just blow this off to perhaps, coincidence, like for ex, the dam battery crapped out...

[Antonio]

my frustration with the car isn't only directly related to just the transmission issues, there's plenty of other things. As far as the tranny goes, it wouldn't downshift under normal conditions, normal speed, slow speed, anything. I've never tried to downshift the car and over rev it. I definitely use the car to its limits and drive it harder probably than the average person, but by no means do I beat it to hell.

But yeah, I'm not trying to lengthen this further than it needs be. I'm just extremely frustrated in the fact I've had my car for less than 2 years and it already has been in the dealer for more than 3 solid months overall.... Each transmission change took a full 4 weeks, the diff 2 weeks, other minor things a few days here and there. Regardless of it even WAS my fault, I can't depend on a car with that kind of history. If it really is true that it can't keep up with the power I want out of it, and my intentions for it, then all the more reason to get out of it before I go through any further headaches. It just disappoints me because I really REALLY love this car. This was my pride and joy really, as my first real big "luxury" purchase. When I was saving for the sky, I was 3 months from paying off the Tiburon almost 4 years early. I could've paid it off, kept it for another year while saving my money, and then gotten a brand new C6 instead or at least jump into a better quality C5 Z06.

But since going down this road, i've spent quite a bit of money (yeah some of it on my own doing) to have a car depreciate 1/3 of its original value in 18 months....

As much as I love this car, I have to consider whether or not this was smart investment. If I decide it wasn't, which I'm leaning towards, then I'll have to do what I have to do...

[Rustyknight]

Originally Posted by Antonio

my frustration with the car isn't only directly related to just the transmission issues, there's plenty of other things. As far as the tranny goes, it wouldn't downshift under normal conditions, normal speed, slow speed, anything. I've never tried to downshift the car and over rev it. I definitely use the car to its limits and drive it harder probably than the average person, but by no means do I beat it to hell.

But yeah, I'm not trying to lengthen this further than it needs be. I'm just extremely frustrated in the fact I've had my car for less than 2 years and it already has been in the dealer for more than 3 solid months overall.... Each transmission change took a full 4 weeks, the diff 2 weeks, other minor things a few days here and there. Regardless of it even WAS my fault, I can't depend on a car with that kind of history. If it really is true that it can't keep up with the power I want out of it, and my intentions for it, then all the more reason to get out of it before I go through any further headaches. It just disappoints me because I really REALLY love this car. This was my pride and joy really, as my first real big "luxury" purchase. When I was saving for the sky, I was 3 months from paying off the Tiburon almost 4 years early. I could've paid it off, kept it for another year while saving my money, and then gotten a brand new C6 instead or at least jump into a better quality C5 Z06.

But since going down this road, i've spent quite a bit of money (yeah some of it on my own doing) to have a car depreciate 1/3 of its original value in 18 months....

As much as I love this car, I have to consider whether or not this was smart investment. If I decide it wasn't, which I'm leaning towards, then I'll have to do what I have to do...

Antonio
I probably came down hard on you, when what you really needed to do was vent, I'm sorry for that.

The kappas are great platform, and I personnaly think the Sky is a one in a million design and looks better than 99% of the cars on the road. As to mods and dealer problems, your experience is a cautionary tale for other people contemplating modifications to their vehicles, dealer issues when you modify a vehicle are not about what the vehicle driveline can handle (my guess is the car could probably handle over 400hp without over-stressing the driveline) but about the perceptions of the dealer, and the dealer trying serve what they think is in their own best interests.

[Ernest]

Sorry to hear about this latest problem, I hope you get a satisfactory solution. The SKY is a great car, but I think it will take time to see how much power it can handle.

On a lighter note: "WOW Antonio, you should've had a V8"

Just kiddin' Buddy

[nick112207]

not trying to insult you in anyway or try to say your dumb, but did you simply try to jump it with another car? my cavalier did something similiar to what your Sky is doing. It wouldnt start, not even crank, but i could turn on the radio and the lights. well i had a friend come and i hooked up the jumper cables and it started up right away no problem. hasnt done it sense. i was kinda confused why it would have enough power to run the radio and the lights but not even turn over the starter motor but didnt question it

[Antonio]

Originally Posted by nick112207

not trying to insult you in anyway or try to say your dumb, but did you simply try to jump it with another car? my cavalier did something similiar to what your Sky is doing. It wouldnt start, not even crank, but i could turn on the radio and the lights. well i had a friend come and i hooked up the jumper cables and it started up right away no problem. hasnt done it sense. i was kinda confused why it would have enough power to run the radio and the lights but not even turn over the starter motor but didnt question it

no insult taken, but no didn't try to jump it. I was the only one home so I couldn't use the other car to try. At the point the tow truck guy was there, I wasn't gonna bother, I just would rather have the dealer sort it out.

[MidniteBlues]

Originally Posted by Antonio

my frustration with the car isn't only directly related to just the transmission issues, there's plenty of other things. As far as the tranny goes, it wouldn't downshift under normal conditions, normal speed, slow speed, anything. I've never tried to downshift the car and over rev it. I definitely use the car to its limits and drive it harder probably than the average person, but by no means do I beat it to hell.

I really REALLY love this car. This was my pride and joy really, as my first real big "luxury" purchase. When I was saving for the sky, I was 3 months from paying off the Tiburon almost 4 years early. I could've paid it off, kept it for another year while saving my money, and then gotten a brand new C6 instead or at least jump into a better quality C5 Z06.

But since going down this road, I've spent quite a bit of money (yeah some of it on my own doing) to have a car depreciate 1/3 of its original value in 18 months....

As much as I love this car, I have to consider whether or not this was smart investment. If I decide it wasn't, which I'm leaning towards, then I'll have to do what I have to do...

Well, your love for the car IS most admirable to say the least. That comes thru by the way you talk, what you say, and the fact your even giving the dam thing another chance looks like. BUT, I'll be honest with ya Antonio, buddy Ole pal, IF, and I really emphasize IF, my Sky woulda done to me what it has done to you, It would of been history long time ago. I will NOT tolerate an unreliable vehicle, especially if my ladies are driving it. As much as I love my cars, if its a flake, its a flake. Either trade it for another one, get rid of it, or just go to another totally different car. Since I purchased my Sky for the wife to drive to work and save on fuel costs with the H2, (which was eating me alive at the time) what I was paying for fuel for the H2 is paying for the Sky and at the same time I save fuel costs and in my little way helping our environment.

BUT no way could I have a car my wife and or daughters are driving and I don't have faith in it to keep them safe and start each and every day. Look at my example, the only time my sky was in the shop was for routine maintenance, minor crap happening, but flawless with the motor, performance and the top...go figure.. Not one time has it not started, got me there and back safely, not even a hiccup or a burp. One more thing I must tell you. I don't believe in buying a used car. Just think about it, you are ready to dump your sky because of reliability issues and problems, but yet you are ready to jump head first into a vette, a used one to boot, what kind of headaches are you getting yourself into & perhaps inheriting, like the next guy will when he buys your 'used' sky.? Why was that vette traded in? did it have a history of problems? perhaps unauthorized modifications also? I don't buy used cars and then inherit the previous owners headaches whereas I then haveta "bite the bullet" and fix HIS crap and maybe his abusive behavior.. A used sports car? me? never? Wanna vette? buy it NEW, that way YOU have full control over its fate...AND an accurate knowledge of its history from mile 5..;

[xmicro_Redline]

Antonio, I will say you are probably not far off when you say, that for what you want to do, this might have not been the best investment for you. I always say that in these situations you are better off investing further, IF YOU CAN ACHIEVE YOUR GOAL WITH IT! How about a tranny upgrade? Maybe research what can be done. At this point you will eat thousands to get into something else.

I say get this problem solved and take time to think about it. If you had jumped into that Vette it would have cost you big and you do not know for sure what problems you are buying. If you ran over that crap with the Vette it would have probably cost you more. Be careful you do not buy someone else's headache without money to make that right.

Just something to think about. Do not jump away too fast.. Corvettes are a large step up money wise!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by xmicro_Redline

Antonio, I will say you are probably not far off when you say, that for what you want to do, this might have not been the best investment for you. I always say that in these situations you are better off investing further, IF YOU CAN ACHIEVE YOUR GOAL WITH IT! How about a tranny upgrade? Maybe research what can be done. At this point you will eat thousands to get into something else.

I say get this problem solved and take time to think about it. If you had jumped into that Vette it would have cost you big and you do not know for sure what problems you are buying. If you ran over that crap with the Vette it would have probably cost you more. Be careful you do not buy someone else's headache without money to make that right.

Just something to think about. Do not jump away too fast.. Corvettes are a large step up money wise!

Actually Corvettes are not that big a step money wise, when you factor in how much better a 'Vette holds it's value, and the fact that Kathy's '04 Coupe was cheaper than a R/L, and is a proven vehicle.
My payments are lower on her 'Vette than they were on my R/L

[xmicro_Redline]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Actually Corvettes are not that big a step money wise, when you factor in how much better a 'Vette holds it's value, and the fact that Kathy's '04 Coupe was cheaper than a R/L, and is a proven vehicle.
My payments are lower on her 'Vette than they were on my R/L

I was referring to the $30K Z06 he was looking at. He was looking at hopefully getting $21K for his car. So he was in for $9K + Tax + the increase in Insurance. A substantial outlay. If he was starting from the point BEFORE he bought and put money into the SKY, then yes a used Vette is not much more than an NEW RL. I actually took my Old Man to the Chevy dealer before we bought the SKY's and looked at getting Father and Son Vette's. We both loved the Vette but felt the same way, it is bigger feeling on the road than the SKY by a lot and we both like the size of the 50' and 60's vette's. Don't get me wrong, we loved the ride....VERY SOLID, but a bit bigger than we wanted.

The Next Puppy I am targeting is the New Camaro Z28 .

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by xmicro_Redline

I was referring to the $30K Z06 he was looking at. He was looking at hopefully getting $21K for his car. So he was in for $9K + Tax + the increase in Insurance. A substantial outlay. If he was starting from the point BEFORE he bought and put money into the SKY, then yes a used Vette is not much more than an NEW RL. I actually took my Old Man to the Chevy dealer before we bought the SKY's and looked at getting Father and Son Vette's. We both loved the Vette but felt the same way, it is bigger feeling on the road than the SKY by a lot and we both like the size of the 50' and 60's vette's. Don't get me wrong, we loved the ride....VERY SOLID, but a bit bigger than we wanted.

The Next Puppy I am targeting is the New Camaro Z28 .

Good choice There is a lot of potential in that puppy I would love to see the LS7 engine option in that one

[Bogie]

With the exception of the kappa architecture, which was indeed built as a rock solid structural foundation for a roadster, most of the performance parts were pulled from the existing GM parts bin.

As for the Engine, that was built from the ground up as a PERFORMANCE piece; a global engine for cars across the GM lineup. Its incorporation in the Kappa is actually under its performance limit. The engine is rock solid.

But that is a both a blessing and a curse. A blessing in that we can tune these babies to provide some excellent performance increases. The engine is capable of delivering a lot more power, and doing so within its design limits. A curse in that unless the rest of the drive train is of comparable capability, the extra power may exceed the capability of the overall train.

The transmission? Pulled from the Hummer (manual) and CTS (automatic)
Differential? CTS.

Granted the Hummer and the CTS have performance qualities. The Hummer needing a beefy transmission for the low end and towing torque, not to mention lugging a hefty beast under normal driving. And the CTS was designed as the "turn me on" Cadillac. So the parts pulled from these vehicles are no slouches. They are designed pretty tough. But they were not designed for the kappa. And not being purpose designed does require careful consideration when calling upon them to perform differently than the vehicle for which they were designed, and especially so when extending their performance expectations beyond the stock kappa design.

Compared to a car like the Z06 Vette, there really is no comparison. Every piece of the car is engineered to perform at the level of the other parts of the car. And this goes well beyond drive train. Brakes? A Vette will still be going strong long after a SKY's fades to nothing. Tires? The OEMs on the SKY are nice, but don't compare to Vette. Suspension? Perhaps one area where the SKY shines a little (but not as good as the Vette) because that was one of the design focus of the SKY.

A SKY is designed to look good and perform SOME, mostly in short stints, or on the twisties (which it can do all day), or within a specific SCCA or AutoCross Class where the performance shortfalls are shared by its peers. But drive it to the limit of performance, or crank up its performance to the limit, and something has to give. There is a reason a SKY costs $50K less than a Z06. One is engineered for looks and some performance, the other is engineered for racing and long term performance endurance.

If you want what a Z06 can deliver, then you won't get it in the SKY unless you're willing to spend what a Z06 costs to get there, and that includes swapping out a lot of parts that...in the end....will give you a different vehicle cloaked in SKY wrapping.

[xmicro_Redline]

Originally Posted by Bogie

With the exception of the kappa architecture, which was indeed built as a rock solid structural foundation for a roadster, most of the performance parts were pulled from the existing GM parts bin.

As for the Engine, that was built from the ground up as a PERFORMANCE piece; a global engine for cars across the GM lineup. Its incorporation in the Kappa is actually under its performance limit. The engine is rock solid.

But that is a both a blessing and a curse. A blessing in that we can tune these babies to provide some excellent performance increases. The engine is capable of delivering a lot more power, and doing so within its design limits. A curse in that unless the rest of the drive train is of comparable capability, the extra power may exceed the capability of the overall train.

The transmission? Pulled from the Hummer (manual) and CTS (automatic)
Differential? CTS.

Granted the Hummer and the CTS have performance qualities. The Hummer needing a beefy transmission for the low end and towing torque, not to mention lugging a hefty beast under normal driving. And the CTS was designed as the "turn me on" Cadillac. So the parts pulled from these vehicles are no slouches. They are designed pretty tough. But they were not designed for the kappa. And not being purpose designed does require careful consideration when calling upon them to perform differently than the vehicle for which they were designed, and especially so when extending their performance expectations beyond the stock kappa design.

Compared to a car like the Z06 Vette, there really is no comparison. Every piece of the car is engineered to perform at the level of the other parts of the car. And this goes well beyond drive train. Brakes? A Vette will still be going strong long after a SKY's fades to nothing. Tires? The OEMs on the SKY are nice, but don't compare to Vette. Suspension? Perhaps one area where the SKY shines a little (but not as good as the Vette) because that was one of the design focus of the SKY.

A SKY is designed to look good and perform SOME, mostly in short stints, or on the twisties (which it can do all day), or within a specific SCCA or AutoCross Class where the performance shortfalls are shared by its peers. But drive it to the limit of performance, or crank up its performance to the limit, and something has to give. There is a reason a SKY costs $50K less than a Z06. One is engineered for looks and some performance, the other is engineered for racing and long term performance endurance.

If you want what a Z06 can deliver, then you won't get it in the SKY unless you're willing to spend what a Z06 costs to get there, and that includes swapping out a lot of parts that...in the end....will give you a different vehicle cloaked in SKY wrapping.

Well said Bogie!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by xmicro_Redline

Well said Bogie!

[puggsleyssky]

Originally Posted by Bogie

With the exception of the kappa architecture, which was indeed built as a rock solid structural foundation for a roadster, most of the performance parts were pulled from the existing GM parts bin.

As for the Engine, that was built from the ground up as a PERFORMANCE piece; a global engine for cars across the GM lineup. Its incorporation in the Kappa is actually under its performance limit. The engine is rock solid.

But that is a both a blessing and a curse. A blessing in that we can tune these babies to provide some excellent performance increases. The engine is capable of delivering a lot more power, and doing so within its design limits. A curse in that unless the rest of the drive train is of comparable capability, the extra power may exceed the capability of the overall train.

The transmission? Pulled from the Hummer (manual) and CTS (automatic)
Differential? CTS.

Granted the Hummer and the CTS have performance qualities. The Hummer needing a beefy transmission for the low end and towing torque, not to mention lugging a hefty beast under normal driving. And the CTS was designed as the "turn me on" Cadillac. So the parts pulled from these vehicles are no slouches. They are designed pretty tough. But they were not designed for the kappa. And not being purpose designed does require careful consideration when calling upon them to perform differently than the vehicle for which they were designed, and especially so when extending their performance expectations beyond the stock kappa design.

Compared to a car like the Z06 Vette, there really is no comparison. Every piece of the car is engineered to perform at the level of the other parts of the car. And this goes well beyond drive train. Brakes? A Vette will still be going strong long after a SKY's fades to nothing. Tires? The OEMs on the SKY are nice, but don't compare to Vette. Suspension? Perhaps one area where the SKY shines a little (but not as good as the Vette) because that was one of the design focus of the SKY.

A SKY is designed to look good and perform SOME, mostly in short stints, or on the twisties (which it can do all day), or within a specific SCCA or AutoCross Class where the performance shortfalls are shared by its peers. But drive it to the limit of performance, or crank up its performance to the limit, and something has to give. There is a reason a SKY costs $50K less than a Z06. One is engineered for looks and some performance, the other is engineered for racing and long term performance endurance.

If you want what a Z06 can deliver, then you won't get it in the SKY unless you're willing to spend what a Z06 costs to get there, and that includes swapping out a lot of parts that...in the end....will give you a different vehicle cloaked in SKY wrapping.

As always, an intelligent, experience inspired, intellectually appropriate response from Dr. Bogie! Now on to my modifications!!!!