GM Layoff and Expense (reduction) Announcement

[lorennerol]

Originally Posted by JohnD

Funny, I can remember six years of "oil men in the White House" and Republicans running the congress and we didn't have high gas prices.
Something to think about...

I think your memory might be faulty. By July of 2005 gas prices were up more than 100% from July of 2002. Also notice the *entirely coincidental* dip each year around election time. Market forces at work, or price manipulation my what is effectively a monopoly?



Source: Gas Price Historical Price Charts - GasBuddy.com

[|V3nom|]

when i started driving in 2003 gas was $1.31, its now close to $4.31 after only 5 years. its gone up more in the last 5 years than in the last 50.

[lorennerol]

Originally Posted by |V3nom|

when i started driving in 2003 gas was $1.31, its now close to $4.31 after only 5 years. its gone up more in the last 5 years than in the last 50.

I found some raw DOE data that goes back to 1990. I hacked together an Excel chart with red bars that show Nov-Jan of each presidential election year:


U.S. Retail Gasoline Historical Prices

I'm surprised this data haven't been redacted due to 'national security concerns' or 'executive privilege'.

Anyone remember that gas was *under* $1.00/gallon while Clinton was in office and that he left office with a budget SURPLUS amidst talk of entirely paying off the national debt? Eek.

[MidniteBlues]

Originally Posted by lorennerol

Anyone remember that gas was *under* $1.00/gallon while Clinton was in office and that he left office with a budget SURPLUS amidst talk of entirely paying off the national debt? Eek.

Please, Clinton didn't have a dam thing to do with that surplus, It was a Republican dominated Congress in both houses that built that surplus up, not clinton. Also, if its true that if he contributed to it in any way, it was that he sign the budgets that were put under his nose to sign instead of vetoing the spending bills that the republicans sent him. He also left office when the economy already starting to go into a tail spin. Then 911 hit which spun the country into a mild recession. The demobrats were salivating all over the place when they saw how huge the surplus was, they had NO plans what so ever to pay down the national debt, they saw away to start pissing it away on their socialist agenda. I'm glad we took the money back, its ours, not the dams politicians, I can care less which party is there. They are all greedy turds as far as I'm concerned and don't give a hoot about the working stiff like me & you.. And yes, oil was spiraling up starting around 04-05, about the same time that China & India started stealing all our manufacturing plants and their standard of living started to go up and consumers over their starting sucking up oil & gas with demand for cars, just like us. But look what has happened the last 2 years with the demobrats in charge to the price of oil AND still the bone heads there, po-loser & that weeny winer reid are doing absolutely nothing to start getting us to be energy independent. Also remember that it was that "it depends what "it" means" woman abuser didn't sign the bill passed by congress to drill in ANWR.. IF that would of happened 10 years ago (since that how long those demobrats thinks it takes to bring oil on line), that oil would be here now flowing and the price of gas I betcha would be much lower than what you see today.. ALL those politicians suck (both parties) as far as I'm concerned, lets fire them all I say..

One more thing, if you think its bad now, elect that flip flopping retreat from everywhere Hussein Obamasan with a demobrat congress, yawl ain't seen shlt yet. God help this country (assuming he exists).. Hide all your moneys, cause they be coming to take as much as they can to turn this great country into a socialist state.. They will tax the air we breath if they could. Thanks that our founding fathers gave us the 2nd amendment..

[gadget]

Originally Posted by compdoc777

Don't think they will stop production of something they are already tooled up to make and that is in production and selling great.

The only things that have to worry are the big motor gas guzzling designs that have not made it to production yet.

That has got to hurt after investing millions on designs that people will not be purchasing anymore.

I wish I could feel sorry for them, but I don't. They could be in the top of the market right now selling Hybrids of all types. Coming up with safer compsite designs to make vehicals safer and stronger. Yet, they poor money into the same old thing year after year never thinking of the future.
I really hope the government does not bail out any of the big three. They deserve there just deserts. I would not let them file for bankruptcy either.

Let them crash and burn and open up the doors for new innovative companies with innovative thinkers and designers.

I agree there has to be some point where the capitalist has to accept what happens when they fail at capitalism.

Originally Posted by MidniteBlues

Terrible, terrible thing to say.. Granted perhaps management screwed up on the direction they took the company, but I don't think the employees should suffer by seeing GM go belly up and all these people lose their jobs.., are you going to open a company up and give them a job? I also must disagree that the other 2 car companies should go belly up.. those companies provide thousands of jobs, not just to their employees but 3rd party makers of parts they consume to build these vehicles..You must be an old man and retired already..

So what happened at united airlines is OK then? They took most of theyre employees retirement and what they didn't take they left the taxpayers to pay for. They kept telling the employees lies to get them to give up benefits.
Then they gave themselves big fat raises and let most of the employees go. and thanks to a bone headed federal judge. They still get to run the company they F'ed up. But as long as united airlines survived as a company it's good capitalism.

Originally Posted by eddf

I agree. Anyone old enough to remember the 1979 gas shortage? Long lines at the stations, big discussions on building more efficient cars. Same talk then as now. This was the period when Honda and Toyota made huge gains in market share. The public suddenly wanted smaller, higher quality cars. The big 3 were caught with their pants down.

Fast forward almost 30 years to 2008. The big 3 are caught with their pants down again. Seems to me they build what the public wants at the moment, rather than predicting trends and taking a leadership role. Like 1979, the public's taste can change overnight. The product development cycle can't react that fast.

History repeats itself.



Ed

Originally Posted by lorennerol

Better check the union contracts before you pronounce that the hourly employees will be suffering in the short term. The terms of those contracts should be an embarrassment to whatever GM exec approved them. No company can stay solvent if they have to continue paying laid-off employees at 70-90% of the at-work salary. No company should have to get union brass approval to idle manufaturing facilities. The unions are there to protect the employees from corporate abuses, not to abuse the corporations themselves.

The unions are complicit in the situation the Big 3 are now in- it's a co-created mess and everyone is going to have make some concessions to get out of the mess and stay out of it in the future.

I grew up outside Detroit and knew people who had jobs with the Big 3 but never actually went to those jobs. Friends punched them in and out every day and they collected a paycheck while working full time elsewhere. The situation is totally out of control.

Ya! it's all that nasty old unions fault that GM made promises to the employees that they could no fiscally keep. O rpossibly never intended to keep.

L

Originally Posted by IKenn

I've Been with GM since 1979 UAW PROUD!
Hired on in Michigan ,Willow Run Assembly it closed in 1993 moved my family 1265 miles to Arlington TX in 1993 to keep my job!!
WE UAW folks PAY A PORTION OF OUR PAYCHECKS EVERY WEEK!! to a SUB FUND that pays the difference from what the STATE UNEMPLOYMENT PAYS
At my Plant Security cameras watch every clock and MY job is not worth losing over any friend!!WHAT KIND OF FRIEND IS THAT ANYWAY!!
Maybe thats why I cant leave work now to go to a Doctor appt for a hour without having to bring back a orginal signed date and time stamped note.A letter from a funeral home director for attending a funeral, family included
We only get 30 min lunch on our feet 8-9 1/2 hrs 5-6 days aweek yes building what you the customer wants the hourly people dont have any say in what product is built at our plants.
I don't see Congressmen and Senators refusing UAW & corp monies or RED CROSS ETC Unitedway contributions and state and local leaders from local unions . all accepted UAW & Corporation monies The BIG THREE when they were doing good were supporting them like, Hurricane Katrina
They sure didnt refuse MY VOTE!!!
And when the BIG THRE need help people stand up and cry foul !! oh no lets let them go under they deserve it - GET REAL!!!!
The only thing embarrassing is The Execs bonuses!! and them telling the workers sweating their a$$ off ,is that their Broke and we need to give up more and work harder and unsafer

I feel for you but unfortunately you may end up having to join the rest of us in the real world where the pay is ok. the benefits suck and George Bush and the GOP want to eliminate the social security you paid into all your life because it's most important to shove money down a rathole in the middleeast.

[Sky_Pilot]

Originally Posted by MidniteBlues

Terrible, terrible thing to say.. Granted perhaps management screwed up on the direction they took the company, but I don't think the employees should suffer by seeing GM go belly up and all these people lose their jobs..

So true!! But unfortunately, the poor employee is the first to suffer and the senior mgmt take their fat wallet's to the bank. I know, 24 years with GM and I was laid off.

[IKenn]

Originally Posted by gadget

I agree there has to be some point where the capitalist has to accept what happens when they fail at capitalism.



So what happened at united airlines is OK then? They took most of theyre employees retirement and what they didn't take they left the taxpayers to pay for. They kept telling the employees lies to get them to give up benefits.
Then they gave themselves big fat raises and let most of the employees go. and thanks to a bone headed federal judge. They still get to run the company they F'ed up. But as long as united airlines survived as a company it's good capitalism.







I feel for you but unfortunately you may end up having to join the rest of us in the real world where the pay is ok. the benefits suck and George Bush and the GOP want to eliminate the social security you paid into all your life because it's most important to shove money down a rathole in the middleeast.

You now Know what I do and from Media info how much$ I supposledly don't get in my accuatal take home pay after deductions .
What do you do ?? and how much $$$ is OK in the real world and how much are these OK benifits you speak of?? just is case I make it to the real world only fair if you are going to discuss some peoples wages and job discriptions and what should happen to our jobs tell us your info to compare it's easy to be an armchair quarterback and say how you would have done it different after the fact
IMO This forum is awsome you can have an honest and friendly discussion about anything who said you can'tdiscuss religon and politics with friends

[gadget]

Originally Posted by IKenn

You now Know what I do and from Media info how much$ I supposledly don't get in my accuatal take home pay after deductions .
What do you do ?? and how much $$$ is OK in the real world and how much are these OK benifits you speak of?? just is case I make it to the real world only fair if you are going to discuss some peoples wages and job discriptions and what should happen to our jobs tell us your info to compare it's easy to be an armchair quarterback and say how you would have done it different after the fact
IMO This forum is awsome you can have an honest and friendly discussion about anything who said you can'tdiscuss religon and politics with friends

You notice I said ok I didn't say Whoopie! and I said the benefits suck.If you are working for gm right now your benefits are much better than mine.
as far as retirement I have nothing except for what I sock away and social security which I know the government will surely steal from me before I can retire.
As far as your job.I wish you the best and hope you can keep it. However that is not the trend in american society. The trend is to screw your employees out of every thing they were promised and to call it capitalism.

As far as the stuffed shirts at GM bad planning upon their part has brought the company to the point is at right now blame them. If the japanese makers can plan ahead then so can the big three. Corporate welfare needs to come to an end.