GM Layoff and Expense (reduction) Announcement

[JoeBIII]

Curious... any belief there could be a threat to the kappa lifeline with the GM announcement this week of layoffs and massive expense reductions? I realize they get reasonable gas mileage, but it is such an impractical car I wondered if it may be in jeopardy since it's really more of a luxury item.

[compdoc777]

Originally Posted by JoeBIII

Curious... any belief there could be a threat to the kappa lifeline with the GM announcement this week of layoffs and massive expense reductions? I realize they get reasonable gas mileage, but it is such an impractical car I wondered if it may be in jeopardy since it's really more of a luxury item.

Don't think they will stop production of something they are already tooled up to make and that is in production and selling great.

The only things that have to worry are the big motor gas guzzling designs that have not made it to production yet.

That has got to hurt after investing millions on designs that people will not be purchasing anymore.

I wish I could feel sorry for them, but I don't. They could be in the top of the market right now selling Hybrids of all types. Coming up with safer compsite designs to make vehicals safer and stronger. Yet, they poor money into the same old thing year after year never thinking of the future.
I really hope the government does not bail out any of the big three. They deserve there just deserts. I would not let them file for bankruptcy either.

Let them crash and burn and open up the doors for new innovative companies with innovative thinkers and designers.

[JoeBIII]

i question the ''selling great" part. they're easily available all over in NE FL now. sharp contrast to this time last year where people were buying RLs unseen. At one point a month or so ago, there were over 12 Skys on one of the lots in Jax.

Maybe Ken K from Saturn of the Avenues can chime in with how they're actually selling.

[enkymion]

I can't wait to go to Jacksonville!

[MidniteBlues]

Originally Posted by compdoc777

Let them crash and burn and open up the doors for new innovative companies with innovative thinkers and designers.

Terrible, terrible thing to say.. Granted perhaps management screwed up on the direction they took the company, but I don't think the employees should suffer by seeing GM go belly up and all these people lose their jobs.., are you going to open a company up and give them a job? I also must disagree that the other 2 car companies should go belly up.. those companies provide thousands of jobs, not just to their employees but 3rd party makers of parts they consume to build these vehicles..You must be an old man and retired already..

[|V3nom|]

ive heard that gm will stop making all trucks and suvs, not really how reliable this info is though.

[eddf]

Originally Posted by compdoc777

.... they pour money into the same old thing year after year never thinking of the future.

I agree. Anyone old enough to remember the 1979 gas shortage? Long lines at the stations, big discussions on building more efficient cars. Same talk then as now. This was the period when Honda and Toyota made huge gains in market share. The public suddenly wanted smaller, higher quality cars. The big 3 were caught with their pants down.

Fast forward almost 30 years to 2008. The big 3 are caught with their pants down again. Seems to me they build what the public wants at the moment, rather than predicting trends and taking a leadership role. Like 1979, the public's taste can change overnight. The product development cycle can't react that fast.

History repeats itself.

Ed

[lorennerol]

Originally Posted by MidniteBlues

Terrible, terrible thing to say.. Granted perhaps management screwed up on the direction they took the company, but I don't think the employees should suffer by seeing GM go belly up and all these people lose their jobs.., are you going to open a company up and give them a job? I also must disagree that the other 2 car companies should go belly up.. those companies provide thousands of jobs, not just to their employees but 3rd party makers of parts they consume to build these vehicles..You must be an old man and retired already..

Better check the union contracts before you pronounce that the hourly employees will be suffering in the short term. The terms of those contracts should be an embarrassment to whatever GM exec approved them. No company can stay solvent if they have to continue paying laid-off employees at 70-90% of the at-work salary. No company should have to get union brass approval to idle manufaturing facilities. The unions are there to protect the employees from corporate abuses, not to abuse the corporations themselves.

The unions are complicit in the situation the Big 3 are now in- it's a co-created mess and everyone is going to have make some concessions to get out of the mess and stay out of it in the future.

I grew up outside Detroit and knew people who had jobs with the Big 3 but never actually went to those jobs. Friends punched them in and out every day and they collected a paycheck while working full time elsewhere. The situation is totally out of control.

L

[uranium-238]

Originally Posted by |V3nom|

ive heard that gm will stop making all trucks and suvs, not really how reliable this info is though.

i don't think that will happen. trucks and SUVs do have some specific traits that just don't appear in other vehicles. you don't see people towing their large sailboats behind a focus for a reason.

no, trucks and SUVs will return to their proper place: specialized work vehicles. that's what they are, and in my eyes, no amount of luxury items will change the fact that a truck is a truck. a truck isn't supposed to be a luxury transport, it's a hauling machine, for hauling firewood, doing construction work, etc.

[eddf]

" ...trucks and SUVs will return to their proper place: specialized work vehicles"

100% correct.

Here in the Northwest we have more than our share of both. I'd say 90% of the trucks I see are empty in the back, and most the SUVs have one person inside (Starbucks in one hand, cell phone in the other).

I've spent lots of time in Europe. If you see a truck, it's haulin' something. If you see a van it's haulin' a group of people. Pickup trucks are owned by businesses, not families. When families go on holiday, as they call it, they often pull a small trailer.

In the commercial area, trains do most the haulin'. People by day, freight by night. Very efficient system, 24/7.

Nothing changes our society norms like an good old economic impact. If you want to see the future, look at a country like Holland for example. High gas prices, small cars (one per family typically), and excellent public transportation.

Ed
Don't need to own a truck - just need to know someone who does

2008 Chili Redline

[sky 4 us]

Originally Posted by lorennerol

Better check the union contracts before you pronounce that the hourly employees will be suffering in the short term. The terms of those contracts should be an embarrassment to whatever GM exec approved them. No company can stay solvent if they have to continue paying laid-off employees at 70-90% of the at-work salary. No company should have to get union brass approval to idle manufaturing facilities. The unions are there to protect the employees from corporate abuses, not to abuse the corporations themselves.

The unions are complicit in the situation the Big 3 are now in- it's a co-created mess and everyone is going to have make some concessions to get out of the mess and stay out of it in the future.

I grew up outside Detroit and knew people who had jobs with the Big 3 but never actually went to those jobs. Friends punched them in and out every day and they collected a paycheck while working full time elsewhere. The situation is totally out of control.

L

I have worked for GM for 13 years and I think you have a warped sense of what is really going on now. I take offense to the "IS" in the last sentence of your. "take on things". I can say for a fact at our plant all the gates are recorded and monitored so if this was tried today you would be fired and rightly so. I have read that the union is all to blame and also do not agree. the "international union may be to blame but not the locals. what I see at work is people that take pride in there workmanship, and in any large group of people you alway have some jurk that likes to shoot off his mouth in public weather what they say is true or not.

[lorennerol]

Originally Posted by sky 4 us

I have worked for GM for 13 years and I think you have a warped sense of what is really going on now. I take offense to the "IS" in the last sentence of your. "take on things". I can say for a fact at our plant all the gates are recorded and monitored so if this was tried today you would be fired and rightly so. I have read that the union is all to blame and also do not agree. the "international union may be to blame but not the locals. what I see at work is people that take pride in there workmanship, and in any large group of people you alway have some jurk that likes to shoot off his mouth in public weather what they say is true or not.

The fact that GM has to get union permission to close a plant is ridiculous. I'm not at all anti-union, but this situation has been going on for decades. The people I knew 'worked' in facilities in Flint. You can see what has happened to Flint as a result.

I am *not* saying the union is all to blame. GM management agreed to those contracts and re-agreed over and over. It's a co-created mess and it isn't going to get fixed unless GM has the ability to manage their facilities with agility. Can you imagine having to ask your bank teller if it is okay for you to withdraw some money from your account; explaining what it would be used for and why?

Again, I'm not laying this all on the UAW. Living around the near-constant recession in the Detroit area from 1968 to 1992, and still having family there, it's a major bummer to see such an avoidable, repeating mess come up yet again.

[sky 4 us]

I listened to Rick Wagoneer's speech on the state of the business address. one thing I took away from it is they were cutting not eliminating truck and suv production. He said they were bringing out more smaller models with great gas mileage, and focusing on the crossovers. they are finally starting to cut some of the "fat" from the salary rolls. We hourly are taking a hit also. quit a few plants are going to be closed. my question to him would be who's going to buy his vehicles after he gets his way any has all vehicles made outside the US at slave labor wages. Don't people understand it takes people with good job's in the US to keep buying all products not just cars. where is our tax base going in this country???

[lorennerol]

Originally Posted by sky 4 us

where is our tax base going in this country???

China.

Saw an interesting bit on this the other night. It was an interview with a woman who used to work at a Briggs & Stratton plant in the US. That plant is now in China. She was ruing the loss of her $11/hour job to China, where the workers make $5/week.

Then the interviewer asked her where she does her shopping. "Walmart".

"How do you reconcile shopping at Walmart, which souuces virtually all of their products from low-cost countries, while being upset about the loss of your job to a low-cost country?"

Silence. She had no answer.

No on is doing this 'to us' folks. We're doing it to ourselves.

[sky 4 us]

The thing about the mess with GM is, Rick W. and his cohorts buy all sorts of company's to hide the money from the share holders. example...fiat they paid dont qoute me on the amounts but like 3 billion for half the company and commited to buy the rest a year or two later. they later decided to get out of the deal to the tune of one and a have billion more and nothing to show for it. Then Rick and the boy's vote themselves a huge raises and bonuses for there great business sense. What a way to run a business?... or rather how to run it into the ground. It does not take long to see where this is going.

[sky 4 us]

Originally Posted by lorennerol

China.

Saw an interesting bit on this the other night. It was an interview with a woman who used to work at a Briggs & Stratton plant in the US. That plant is now in China. She was ruing the loss of her $11/hour job to China, where the workers make $5/week.

Then the interviewer asked her where she does her shopping. "Walmart".

"How do you reconcile shopping at Walmart, which souuces virtually all of their products from low-cost countries, while being upset about the loss of your job to a low-cost country?"

Silence. She had no answer.

No on is doing this 'to us' folks. We're doing it to ourselves.

I could not agree more. I TRY to buy us made goods any time it is possible. I would like to add I think people that live in the country..as opposed to the city support the US economy more than city folks do. example go to most any country town a.k.a rural area and look at the type of vehicles they drive. I drove to Florida from Ohio I could tell you when we were getting near a city. the cars are almost all foreign. after you get out away from the city you would start seeing American built cars. Rick and the boy's just dont get this.

[stromo]

Originally Posted by sky 4 us

I TRY to buy us made goods any time it is possible.

It is pretty darn hard to figure out where most things are made. I recall seeing a gateway laptop and the box said "Designed in the USA". WTF does that mean?

Congress should define "what it means to be made in the USA" and then pass a law authorizing any consumer product that meets the requirements to display an official "made in the USA" certificate on their packaging.

I think most Americans would buy American if it was clear.

[SSRL]

I would not be 100% upset if they stop the SKY. We would have a limited 2 year run. then for sure in 5 or 10 years the SKY would be something of an icon

[MidniteBlues]

Originally Posted by lorennerol

The fact that GM has to get union permission to close a plant is ridiculous. I'm not at all anti-union, but this situation has been going on for decades. The people I knew 'worked' in facilities in Flint. You can see what has happened to Flint as a result.

I am *not* saying the union is all to blame. GM management agreed to those contracts and re-agreed over and over. It's a co-created mess and it isn't going to get fixed unless GM has the ability to manage their facilities with agility. Can you imagine having to ask your bank teller if it is okay for you to withdraw some money from your account; explaining what it would be used for and why?

Again, I'm not laying this all on the UAW. Living around the near-constant recession in the Detroit area from 1968 to 1992, and still having family there, it's a major bummer to see such an avoidable, repeating mess come up yet again.

Originally Posted by sky 4 us

The thing about the mess with GM is, Rick W. and his cohorts buy all sorts of company's to hide the money from the share holders. example...fiat they paid dont quote me on the amounts but like 3 billion for half the company and committed to buy the rest a year or two later. they later decided to get out of the deal to the tune of one and a have billion more and nothing to show for it. Then Rick and the boy's vote themselves a huge raises and bonuses for there great business sense. What a way to run a business?... or rather how to run it into the ground. It does not take long to see where this is going.

Both of your points have extreme merits. That is why I mentioned that it is managements mis-management that has brought this pain to this countries manufacturing plants, and specifically car makers. The union contracts and the Fiat fiatco (fiasco) for GM at least, are very good examples of why they are going broke. Of course not developing high efficiency cars At the same time as the H2 is now coming up from the rear and biting them is the a$$...