So SAD..Americans DON'T CARE

[marlboromike]

Originally Posted by Slacker

I agree with Marlboromike and Robotech. It's American cars (and my Pickup truck) for me.

The problem with cars today, either American or rice burners is that they all look alike. They all look like pregnant watermellons. It appears that none of the auto companies employ stylists anymore. It should wake somebody up when a car with style, like the Sky sells like crazy. If you make cars that look cool, people will buy them. By the way............ I was around when '50s cars were new. Now, they had STYLE. You could tell a Ford from a Chevrolet, etc.

Slacker
BLUESTONE Sky
All the goodies

I am straying from the topic of WHO CARES and just commenting on the difference between GM..Ford..and once American owned Chrysler...for the old ones that remember....if u closed your eyes...and turned on the engine of either one of the companies, u could tell which car came from whom...American motors which is now Chrysler, I couldn't tell.

[grs88v8]

Originally Posted by Slacker

I agree with Marlboromike and Robotech. It's American cars (and my Pickup truck) for me.

The problem with cars today, either American or rice burners is that they all look alike. They all look like pregnant watermellons. It appears that none of the auto companies employ stylists anymore. It should wake somebody up when a car with style, like the Sky sells like crazy. If you make cars that look cool, people will buy them. By the way............ I was around when '50s cars were new. Now, they had STYLE. You could tell a Ford from a Chevrolet, etc.

Slacker
BLUESTONE Sky
All the goodies

Bring back Harley Earl, he knew style. I don't expect anybody under 50 to even know who he is, soo sad.

[Kinsey]

I like to buy what looks good, has a fair price, and gets decent gas mileage.
It doesn't matter to me where the car is built. All the companies are the same, they are just located in different areas. Everybody has cars they wont buy though. For me, a Dodge, Chrysler, or Jeep will never set tire on my driveway unless it is and older, more reliable one. I sold the new ones for 8 months and hated the look, feel, and sound of every vehicle that they put out. Almost every new car that was sold came back for stupid problems on a daily basis. Sure some exec at Toyota is getting your money for buying one of their cars but, think of how many people here are getting paid to service that one vehicle. We all buy stuff every day that isn't made in the U.S. so why should a car matter.

[Kinsey]

I agree with the style comment. If more cars were made that looked different like our Skys, more people would buy. I got on the ordering list about a month after seeing the opel on a tv show and hearing that they would be produced here. Companies should spend more money on design though for sure.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by marlboromike

The diversity of opinion here reflects alot about Young Americans...no more pride...no more patriotism...It is the way of the times, sadly stated. Robotech and myself are left dying in this forum....old soldiers just fading away. Nothing left in AMERICA...no one left to fight for a forgotten culture.

Mike, I bought my RL because It was an american built car and I could finally be proud of something american built. There are still some of us who care about this country. I have been buying Japanese sports cars waiting for the American companies to come around. I am so glad they did. I think the big three have relyed to much on their success in quantity and sat back on their laurels too long. Hopefully this is a wake-up call and american automakers will contine to make good vehicles. I think that we will initially see them looking more european, but wil eventually see american styling branch off again when they get sales back under control. I am glad to see quality again. I hated seeing people with year old fords and chevys in the 80's that were breaking down constantly.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Kinsey

I like to buy what looks good, has a fair price, and gets decent gas mileage.
It doesn't matter to me where the car is built. All the companies are the same, they are just located in different areas. Everybody has cars they wont buy though. For me, a Dodge, Chrysler, or Jeep will never set tire on my driveway unless it is and older, more reliable one. I sold the new ones for 8 months and hated the look, feel, and sound of every vehicle that they put out. Almost every new car that was sold came back for stupid problems on a daily basis. Sure some exec at Toyota is getting your money for buying one of their cars but, think of how many people here are getting paid to service that one vehicle. We all buy stuff every day that isn't made in the U.S. so why should a car matter.

Cars are a rolling piece of our identity. If we are not able to be proud of ourselves and buy from ourselves, then we are saying to other countries that we are ashamed of ourselves. An entity that does not support itself eventually crumbles. I for one will not support an American company if it is building cheap cars that fall apart, but it will always be in my list of priorities to buy American if an American company has an equal or greater product. This is why I waited a year a half for a Sky RL rather then buying a new S2000. The American product was equal or better. I would hope that we would support ourselves if we are producing an equal or better product.

[turbopro]

Originally Posted by JohnD

I never once used "the L-word."

Just watch stories on the news. Count 'em. How many are "company X" did someting bad/evil versus "company Y" did something really innovative and cool.

Just count 'em...

Nah, I didnt mean you JohnD. you da man

[L32togo]

Nemesis wrote: Cars are a rolling piece of our identity. If we are not able to be proud of ourselves and buy from ourselves, then we are saying to other countries that we are ashamed of ourselves. An entity that does not support itself eventually crumbles.

How true. Why are we ashamed of ourselves? GM US sales are down 9.5% for April, while Canada GM sales are up 15.5%. Saturn is up 32.4% Impala is up 55%.

I for one have never owned a foreign car. Even in the eighties. Hondas and Toyotas did not impress me as having higher quality except when compared to a Chevette. My son had a Honda and it was a piece of junk. I had to do some repairs toward the end of the life of my vehicles, but the parts were cheap. But I had totally trouble-free ownership with GM cars I bought since 90's. The best part was, I did not pay through the nose for any of them. That's value.

Most people don't realize that Toyota and Honda dealers also have service departments. I make a point of checking and they are always full.

[L32togo]

John D wrote: The media has done a good job painting American companies as "EVIL!"

I agree. And I can't understand how that comment got mixed up with the L-word.

I might add that there is a larger influencing factor that is far more subtle and ingrained. It's the peer advice, from friends, family, co-workers, what have you. Ask them, what car should I get, and don't be surprised if they tell you foreign and never fail to add not to buy American because they are all a piece of junk.

There will always be sheep.

[turbopro]

Originally Posted by grs88v8

I CARE, I will NEVER buy a ricer. I have always bought GM cars, I wouldn't even look at a Japanese car. I don't trust them, one of the companies (I don't remember who; Honda, Toyota or Nissian) was caught cheating on crash tests by double spot welding the frames for crash tests back in the 90's. American people are brainwashed by the liberal media that anything America does is substandard and wrong. GM builds the best cars, always have and always will. I have no fit and finish problems with our SKY R/L and I don't think the interior is cheap either. As i continue to inspect this car, I only find a well built and well planned car. The opinion of NYC hardly matters to about 90% of the rest of America anyway. Gary

I do agree about the media part, lets just not take into account conservativeness or liberalness(spelling? grammer nazi please!)
This my first American vehicle. My first vehicle was a 1997 nissan truck, and it still is my truck, running strong! As my first American vehicle, I am very very impressed with the fit and finish and overall quiality.

[todaresqSL2]

Originally Posted by Oakvillesky

Bang on, As long as North American car makers build crap that is ugly why would anyone buy it.

People buy Japanese and Korean cars that are ugly and people still buy them... they say, cool... they are different ie: Element, xB, xA, Prius and more . GM builds something that is "different" and people have your reaction.

Sure, GM had some bland vehicles in the late 80's and early 90's... and some basic styled vehicles through today. But so did & does Honda and Toyota... one can't tell me that the Honda Accord 4-dr or the Toyota Camry of the 80's and 90's had AMAZING design cues... while the current Camry looks interesting... so does the AURA.

The Aura also looks better to most inside and out... but why doesn't it sell better? A couple of reasons... one, limited dealership network. There are just not that many Saturn retailers... and another is that Saturn is still working on getting people aware that they are more than a small car company. Some still don't even know they make an SUV... heck, in the classifieds section locally, they put the Saturn VUE in the cars section and not the SUV section a lot... because they think Saturn = car.

[Rick Tinley Park]

Originally Posted by todaresqSL2

People buy Japanese and Korean cars that are ugly and people still buy them... they say, cool... they are different ie: Element, xB, xA, Prius and more . GM builds something that is "different" and people have your reaction.

Sure, GM had some bland vehicles in the late 80's and early 90's... and some basic styled vehicles through today. But so did & does Honda and Toyota... one can't tell me that the Honda Accord 4-dr or the Toyota Camry of the 80's and 90's had AMAZING design cues... while the current Camry looks interesting... so does the AURA.

The Aura also looks better to most inside and out... but why doesn't it sell better? A couple of reasons... one, limited dealership network. There are just not that many Saturn retailers... and another is that Saturn is still working on getting people aware that they are more than a small car company. Some still don't even know they make an SUV... heck, in the classifieds section locally, they put the Saturn VUE in the cars section and not the SUV section a lot... because they think Saturn = car.

On this point, when in Detroit we asked that Saturn directly compare the Aura with Camry and Accord. We went so far, in fact, to suggest that they have all three in their showrooms. We felt that if they were side by side few people would leave w/o a Saturn...
They are thinking about doing just that

[RedSkyMan]

If you want to see the cars that America loves, look at what time and time again gets big bucks at the Barrett Jackson Auction. Good old American icons of Automotive style and mussel. How many old Japanese cars have been restored and bought for those prices?

[todaresqSL2]

Originally Posted by Rick Tinley Park

On this point, when in Detroit we asked that Saturn directly compare the Aura with Camry and Accord. We went so far, in fact, to suggest that they have all three in their showrooms. We felt that if they were side by side few people would leave w/o a Saturn...
They are thinking about doing just that

I suggested that our retailer try that and let people test drive both... the GM liked the idea, but said they couldn't afford to buy a Camry and not sell it.

What is funny is that the KIA dealership in the same ownership group is now doing that with the Camry and Accord to compare with the Optima.

[DropTop2]

I definitely dont think that by buying something that isnt american shows you have no american spirit, it just shows that weve turned into such a huge, universal car industry that country origin doesnt matter. and why should it? really it is just the name that we are buying, considering a majority of the major companies (honda, toyota) build cars in the US, giving jobs to millions. I am a new yorker and definitely the cars that are hot right now are the import tuners. high school and college students spend serious money on g35's, s2k, civics, 350z, etc. or you have on long island,where i live, a sh*t load of bentleys gt, escalades, jags, etc. for those pretentious car enthusiasts. i definitely think that the American car market is improving in reliability and looks. BUT! the thing is that these jap traps are hot. its like alittle cult. either tuners or super luxury cars. that seems to be the thing. i think if american automobiles appealed to the public in some way (muscle cars?) with a new niche they would outsell the other brands. But on this board, its a very isolated mindset, because obviously everyone love the sky and gm, so opinions are not those of the majority. dont agree? i think toyota surpassing gm is proof enough. i really would love to see American auto companies make a significant comeback. it would be fantastic.

[Sabre]

Originally Posted by SKYtime

That's right, Toyoto's quality is alleged to have slipped substantially and quality issues are becoming more and more prevalent. Go figure.

Well, I wonder how that timeline figures in with when they started USA based manufacturing using the "more for less" American labor force. What percentage of those quality problems are from the US made vehicles?

[MidniteBlues]

Originally Posted by marlboromike

The diversity of opinion here reflects alot about Young Americans...no more pride...no more patriotism...It is the way of the times, sadly stated. Robotech and myself are left dying in this forum....old soldiers just fading away. Nothing left in AMERICA...no one left to fight for a forgotten culture.

Hey you ole fart, I'm with ya, being that I'm an ole fart 2-- So I'll join you and robo, altho, I no think he's an ole fART ---YET--- BTW, I am also an old soldier---Vet-1969-1976-ARMY--ex-soldeir now--

Finally, I have 5 vehicles in my driveway--3-GM's-2007 Sky, 2003 H2 & 2006 GMC pickup-1 2007 Jeep Wrangler X Unlimited --and the ole company car--Ford freestar 2004--From now until the end of my life, I will be giving the American builders my business--Now I donno if all the of parts are built/put together in the USA, no matter, to me if the plants are here, its yankee build and I like the car--they get first crack!!

[bigdog]

Originally Posted by marlboromike

The diversity of opinion here reflects alot about Young Americans...no more pride...no more patriotism...It is the way of the times, sadly stated. Robotech and myself are left dying in this forum....old soldiers just fading away. Nothing left in AMERICA...no one left to fight for a forgotten culture.

I have pride. I have bought Saturn vehicles since 95. I wanted a good car at a decent price with good service. I scored hits in all three catagories.

rant on
I do have a pride problem, well I guess it's more of a loyalty issue than anything, with American companies. I started my working life in the world of "...work for us, be loyal to us and we'll take care of you...". That changed to "... work for us and you'll have plenty of opportunites ...". Now were at the point where you are just a body. You fill a nitch and when the nitch is no longer needed, or some corporate big whig in year 3 of his 5 year plan wants to save a bunch of money, bang you're history. The big whigs could care less about the folks who are actually doing the work. All they are working for is the bag of money they'll get when they move on to 'other opportunities'

My working life now is about hanging on as long as I can before they pull the rug out. Not be cause I'm doing a bad job - on the contrary, my reviews are terriffic. It's because they can hire some doofus fresh out of school who'll do the same job for half the money AND, I won't get any pension cause I 'just missed the numbers'

And don't get me started on pay raises . . . . . rant off


sorry for the spew

[Robotech]

Not an old fart yet...well...unless you consider 36 old. LOL But going by the only as old as you feel gauge I'm 23 or so.

Now I've owned cars from every major car manufacturing region of the world save, now, Australia. I've owned something from each of the Big Three, BMW, VW, Honda, and Kia...yes Kia. But by far the majority of what I had has been American. Yes, I have a great deal of American pride but that's not why I bought them. I bought them because I liked what they had.

You know, I had a Japanese woman that I use to car pool with. I'll never forget the first time she got in my car. She was all about Japanese and German cars. She got in my Grand Prix and started asking me questions. I pointed out the dual zone climate control, heated seats, HUD, DIC, and steering wheel controls. She was amazed that an American car from 1997 had all these features. She had no clue. Most people don't because they never open their minds to other possibilities beyond what they are comfortable with.

People ask what's so bad about being a service ecconomy. They forget our history. Go back and review what our major strengths were during both world wars. Quality of troops? Nope, least not at first. Our troops were green and our military, especially before the Second World War, was operated on the most shoestring of budgets giving them poor equipment and training. Quality of equipment? Again, not at first. Our equipment during WWI was mostly borrowed (tanks and aircraft at least...trucks and guns we were good) and even at the end of WWII our primary tank was a joke compaired to what else was on the battlefield.

No, our three greatest qualities were:

1. Our Numbers - We had a lot of people. Compared to the smaller countries of Europe (Russia/USSR not inclusive) we had a huge population from which to draw soldiers from.<