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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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Synthetic oil advice.

Is this guy telling the truth or is he full of crap?

https://youtu.be/uInw-BFffcs

I hope he's full of crap. I recently put synthetic oil in my sky and I have no idea what type of oil the previous owner used.

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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 12:58 AM
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Definitely full of it.

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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 05:55 AM
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Ok, so the guy has somewhat of an understanding of conventional vs synthetic when it comes to detergents and sludge. So the sludge that accumulates with conventional oil can in fact be plugging up some engine leaks and hiding them from you. But that's IF you already have some sort of leaks. So if your car has 150,000+ miles and you have zero engine leaks, expect that switching to synthetic might uncover some minor leaks for you to take care of. But that does NOT mean that conventional oil was protecting the engine, it was literally just hiding a problem. Now if you have a conventional oil engine with say 50,000 miles and you've taken care of the car (not beat the **** out of it) there's probably no leaks for any sludge build up to clog. In this case, switching to synthetic will only serve to provide significantly more wear protection and increase the efficiency of your engine by removing sludge build up and having better viscosity at different engine temperatures. So to recap: unless you have a ton of miles and beat the snot out of your engine, switching to synthetic will only do good things for your car. If you do switch and encounter a leak at a seal then the problem was already there, and the conventional oil was simply masking it. Hope that clears things up for you.
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 07:52 AM
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He is spouting myths that were first propagated 30 years ago when synthetic first became a widely sold product. Its all crap.
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob the Elder View Post
He is spouting myths that were first propagated 30 years ago when synthetic first became a widely sold product. Its all crap.
Hmm, interesting can you expound on that cause I was more in Master Radio's camp.

(*sorry this next part sounds like an in quesition, not meant to just trying to get to whats real whats not)
Rob, are you saying;
1) Conventional oil wont build up sludge in the engine?
2) Synthetic won't clean out the sludge build up from years of using Conventional oil?
3) Cleaning out the sludge will not reveal any leaks you have?

I think these are the only 3 points the guy makes in the whole video.

Now there is another point I have heard, which is you might also have small leaks that conventional thicker oil is not seeping out of but synthetic might.

Is any of this bad for your engine, no. Could switching to synthetic on an older engine lead to you spending money yes. But its only cause the synthetic is going to expose issues in your engine that the dyno juice hide. Of course the engineer in me then might argue thats one of the advantages of dyno juice, it helps hide engine problems longer.

I think on a turbo with higher temps, running synthetic makes sense. On your old 1960 V8 Caddilac Elderado convertible, I would stick with dyno juice.

This is a VERY much talked about topic in the Corvair world, and I can provide some links to some really good oil testing that might make you rethink brand loyalty. If I were to take what oil I use seriously (If I thought it mattered over my ownership span) for Synth I would go Amsoil, for Dyno juice I would go Brad Penn.

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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 08:50 AM
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Conventional oil with proper additives does not build up sludge. If you use bulk oil - or much of the oil that was sold in the 40s and 50s it did not have all the detergents that are in all quality oil today.

In the age of Babbitt bearings cars that went 20k or 50k miles were considered reliable. Valve and top end jobs were regular maintenance. Materials, manufacturing techniques, design techniques were a lot different.

Tolerances were much more variable and larger. Gaskets and seals did not perform nearly as well. It was the norm when I was a kid to see smokers all over the road. Oil stains on the driveway were the norm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_(alloy)

When I got my GTO in 1968 I was told to add STP additive at each oil change to keep the motor safe. And there was no thought of using synthetic oil.

Everywhere you went in those days you were told "synthetic oil will ruin your motor" " all that crap in the motor that is keeping it from leaking will get washed away!" "Synthetic is very THIN and will leak right through your gaskets"

While clearly there were cases where people went to synthetic after years of using bulk (non-detergent) oil and experienced leaking, the benefits of the improved resistance to wear far outweighed any leaking issues.

The facts are that non synthetic oil creates conditions where main bearing wear occurs every time you start your car. Synthetic oil prevents this wear.

In our "modern" cars transitioning from non-synthetic modern oil to full synthetic should pose no issues.

Just my opinion.

Personally I would rather find the leaks and fix them than continue to use oil that is destroying my engine.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 10:16 AM
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Ok, yes I agree Rob.

Car companies back in the 60's commonly stated how many quarts per 1000 miles the car would use (don't remember the exact numbers) but it was common to see stated in the spec's.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 12:34 PM
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All I know is I put Synthetic in everything. I have a GMC 5.3 with 210k on the clock, my 3800 had 180K when I stopped driving it, the Sky has 105K now...No oil leaks in any of them and no burning of substantial oil between oil changes. The Truck is the closest with the oil level being low (but not below the low mark) when it comes time for it's oil change.

And those oil changes are done based on the Engine Oil Life Monitor GM has in our cars. I average about 8K miles between oil changes...Oh, look at that, the one for my Sky just came on today! Time to get some Royal Purple.
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
And those oil changes are done based on the Engine Oil Life Monitor GM has in our cars. I average about 8K miles between oil changes...Oh, look at that, the one for my Sky just came on today! Time to get some Royal Purple.

Engine Oil Life Monitor's don't know what kind of oil you have, they are based on miles, driving conditions, there is no sampling of the oil or that. So its a cal table which is based off Dino juice. Synth would be good for longer, but who knows how much longer.

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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davhamm View Post
Engine Oil Life Monitor's don't know what kind of oil you have, they are based on miles, driving conditions, there is no sampling of the oil or that. So its a cal table which is based off Dino juice. Synth would be good for longer, but who knows how much longer.
All true (throw in engine run time and coolant temperatures to that oil life calculation) but it's a happy medium for me. From studies I've seen, with an oil filter replacement now and again, 15-20K miles is not unheard of with synthetic. I could probably get away with a filter change and top off the oil level and call it good.
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 03:42 PM
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The OLM calibration is for mineral oil (in the 2.4) but the change intervals it recommends for synthetic are longer when operating under the same driving conditions. I switched my 2.4 from mineral to synthetic and the 10% life remaining point went from 6600 (average) to 9600 (average) miles. That suggests that at least some of the conditions monitored are improved using the synthetic. Oil analysis (the one time I did it with synthetic) did not suggest running significantly longer than 9600 miles due to depletion of additives, although that could certainly be corrected by the addition of one quart with the filter. It is academic for me now anyway as neither car exceeds the OLM within 12 months. At least until an oil analysis suggests otherwise I will continue to follow the 10% life or 12 months change interval.

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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 04:16 PM
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Yea, I've found the OLM is pretty darn good at telling you when to change it so I just go by that.


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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davhamm View Post
Engine Oil Life Monitor's don't know what kind of oil you have, they are based on miles, driving conditions, there is no sampling of the oil or that. So its a cal table which is based off Dino juice.
I would expect this to not be true for the RL. Since synthetic is required in the RL, I would hope that the OLM would use that as the basis for it's computations.

Seems like it would be silly to assume that the owner is using the oil he has been told NOT to use.

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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 05:52 PM
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Interesting theory. It mirrors what the old time MG guys used to say in the 1950s about their MG TCs, which used a non-detergent oil - that if you used a detergent oil, you'd mobilize grunge in the engine and screw it up. While the first part is true, if you simply ran regular detergent containing oil for a hundred miles and then changed it, you could run forever after with it with zero issues.

Synthetic did/does have a reputation for being able to sneak past some gaskets that regular oil doesn't, and there were reports about engines leaking more after a switch, but if the seals and gaskets in an engine are good, that shouldn't be an issue.

In short, a synthetic is a good way to go and the guy in the video is not espousing a useful theory.

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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 06:03 PM
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I would expect this to not be true for the RL. Since synthetic is required in the RL, I would hope that the OLM would use that as the basis for it's computations.

Seems like it would be silly to assume that the owner is using the oil he has been told NOT to use.
Yes good point, especially with more and more 4cyl turbo's using syn. more and more cars OLM will be tabled for that.

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