2008 Redline Brake Poll

[blzcrzr]

Here's the email I received from NHTSA on 12/6/2007. I pointed them to this site, haven't heard from them since.

My name is Mark Swanson and I am a Safety Defects Investigator for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. First let me say I am sorry that you and your family had to experience such an ordeal. We are looking into the alleged brake failure on 2008 Saturn Sky vehicles. I recently reviewed your brake failure complaint on your 2008 Saturn Sky. I am looking for more information related to your incident. Have you visited a dealer? What did the dealer say? Have you had any corrections made or any modifications from the dealer? Have you contacted General Motors? What did GM have to say? Any information that could possibly help with this matter would be of great assistance.


Thanks,

Mark B. Swanson

Safety Defects Engineer
Office of Defects Investigation
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
United States Department of Transportation

1-877-536-8368 x67020 Toll-Free
202-366-7020 Voice
202-366-1767 Fax

[Rail Jockey]

I haven't experienced the severe problems with my brakes like some of you have. However the brake pedal is hard for the first 30-60 seconds.

As mater of information for those that have had severe problems and are reporting it to the NHTSA make sure you state that it is a turbo or red line/gxp in your statement. I read the complaints on the NHTSA site and many of them only say it is a Sky or Solstice.

[TINOONIT]

I never got any response from NHTSA after filing my complaint on their site. After reading the message from that "Mark Swanson" (NHTSA) that was posted, I called him and left him several messages and he never called me back.


Have any of you called him regarding this??????

[Bogie]

Originally Posted by TINOONIT

I never got any response from NHTSA after filing my complaint on their site. After reading the message from that "Mark Swanson" (NHTSA) that was posted, I called him and left him several messages and he never called me back.


Have any of you called him regarding this??????

I sent an email. I do not expect a personal return email. At this point I don't see what can be accomplished with a chat that can't be accomplished with a message or email. These types of investigations can take many months; Also, DC slows to a crawl in December.

The best way to move this along is each individual's complaint submission. We have enough to get their attention. The resources applied will be measured by the number of complaints and the severity of the problem.

[GMhasbeen]

I'm wondering if the redline is also a turbo? The last turbo I had was controlled by a vacumm driven "waste gate" and this could be the culprit.
The turbo opens wide at take off to provide good power and then closes up as you begin running at a constant speed. It could rob a considerable amount of vacuum and thus deprive the brakes at take off.
The symptoms described tell me there either is no vacuum reservoir or there is a cavuum leak which bleeds off reserved vacuum while the car sits over time. I think it's a leak in the system because there are turbo owners who indicate they do not have the problem. (or do they have turbo's???)
The reason an automatic experience is more severe is because the brakes have to overcome the driveline. Whereas a manual transmission can be fully disengaged (using the clutch) and will be easier to stop.
If your pedal goes to the floor pump it don't push harder. Overdriving your master cylinder could harm the brake system. Use the same technique you would use on ice, short quick pumps.
Try this, after the car has set for some time (6hrs?) get in, do not start it, press the brake pedal. What is the feel? now try pumping it (3x+) and holding it. Does it seem to stiffen up? Now try pumping the pedal to stiffen it up and hold it and THEN start the car. Does it drop? It should but it should also hold the vehicle. So, while still holding the brake down, shift into gear. If the car moves use the E brake to stop it and return to park. At this point if the car moved when you shifted into gear there is a serious safety issue with the vehicle. However, I suspect if you simply pump the brakes a few time before shifting into gear it should hold the vehicle.
I personally would stand in the Saturn showroom and scream until something was done. A picket sign wouldn't hurt either!

[Bogie]

Originally Posted by GMhasbeen

I'm wondering if the redline is also a turbo? The last turbo I had was controlled by a vacumm driven "waste gate" and this could be the culprit.

We've identified the culprit. Saturn removed the auxiliary vacuum pump and put the burden on the optimized hydraulic brake (OHB) assist feature of the electronic stability control. OHB seems to work sub-optimal to the vacuum assist, so it isn't as responsive in stopping the car. Some folks have reported almost no response. Hence, the failure isn't the vacuum (there is no vacuum on a cold start), but a failure in the OHB system designed to cover for a low vacuum start.

[KentuckySky]

They are trying to reach all of us that filed a claim so they can do an investigation. Don't know where we go from here but just thought I'd let everyone know that they are at least working on it.

[blzcrzr]

NHTSA called me today. Said they're investigating the problem.

[fast86gn]

Originally Posted by blzcrzr

NHTSA called me today. Said they're investigating the problem.

Keep us posted. and Thanks.

I have had a few scary moments backing out of the garage...

[3xHounds]

I have had my 2008 RL for a little over a week and have noticed the same thing upon starting the car.

[Wolfheart]

I picked my 2008 RL up a week ago(1/26/08) and noticed the same problem. This morning I tried something new to get the brakes to work quickly, I pumped the brake pedal, though it hardly moved, it did start moving more as I pumped and the brakes did respond before the car was close to normal operating temps(within 10 second). Perhaps this might be useful if anybody needs to take off fairly quickly after start up. Maybe it helped "force feed" some pressure into the system?

[jodenessky]

Brake problems from day one. Rock hard brakes at every start up, then they go to crunchy. Rock hard brakes while in cruise control 2 times. VERY SCARY! I'm thankful that we have not had an accident. It is at the dealer right now for the 4th time. Would NEVER have bought the car if I had felt rock hard brakes BEFORE I bought it. It was warmed up and brought out to me to test drive.

Forgot to mention that a few weeks ago, to try and avoid any more hassle, we tried to trade in the 08 Sky for a Corvette, the dealer only offered 22,000 for trade in. This is a turbo and at the time had 6500 miles on it.

[08sky]

08 Red line automatic, living at sea level, and yes if I don't let the car warm up each morning/ evening I experience lack of stopping power. Crunchy breaks that you need to lean into to get the car to stop.

If you have experienced this issue and as yet have not called the NHTSA please do so.
Their Phone # is 1-888327-4236

[willis]

I now have 1100 miles on my RL. I have had no problems with my brakes so far. I have even made several attempts to make the brakes malfunction. All is well so far. I have a 08 with a 5 speed. Is there a ser. number range that is causing problems or is it all 08 RL models

[blzcrzr]

Received a letter fom Saturn today. They will fix the brake problem. TSB-07-05-25-007B

[r08]

I've had the recall done with NO help, Everyone needs to call Saturn and tell them what you think of there brakes. 800-553-6000 #3

[raverbavers]

It was mentioned that "maybe only automatics have the brake problem"... Nope... mine is a manual. The brakes work when I first start up - but they make a loud crunchlike sound when initially depressed. Scared the crap out of me the first time it happened... I thought I had backed over something...

[Pinotmaker]

When I bought my 2008 Sky Redline (late May 08) the dealer told me about the brake issue. I've put about 1200 miles on her so far, and haven't experienced the problem. It could be because I've got a half-mile long gravel driveway that I drive under 10mph in order to avoid dusting up the car. So by the time I'm at the road, she's been idling for several minutes.