290 hp gm ecm tune - confirmed

[Bogie]

Originally Posted by OLDMX4

I thought this conversation was about the 290hp GM tune

What's interesting is some of the logic behind the existence of the tune is the large Cobalt market.

After thinking on this, I wonder when it comes to Cobalt if the issue isn't the ability to produce the power, but the possibility of producing that much power in a front wheel drive car.

I guess times and technology change, but the rule of thumb I've seen quoted (and it might be an outdated one), is 250HP. Is 290HP too much for a FWD car the size/weight of Cobalt? I understand there may be folks that do their own mods, but those who roll their own don't have a liability issue to think about. GM, being a monolithic corporation, probably has to think about such things when offering this type of performance.

[SaturnSkyDude]

Originally Posted by Bogie

Let's add insult to injury. The SS comes stock with four piston Brembo brakes and larger rotors.

I believe the bolt patern and offset are about the same. Anyone know if they will fit the Sky?

[Darkwing]

Originally Posted by Bogie

What's interesting is some of the logic behind the existence of the tune is the large Cobalt market.

After thinking on this, I wonder when it comes to Cobalt if the issue isn't the ability to produce the power, but the possibility of producing that much power in a front wheel drive car.

I guess times and technology change, but the rule of thumb I've seen quoted (and it might be an outdated one), is 250HP. Is 290HP too much for a FWD car the size/weight of Cobalt? I understand there may be folks that do their own mods, but those who roll their own don't have a liability issue to think about. GM, being a monolithic corporation, probably has to think about such things when offering this type of performance.

Good point. The main disadvantage in a high horsepower front drive car is unweighting the front end under hard acceleration. A front drive car won't pop wheelies, but when the wheels lose their traction the horsepower issue becomes moot after a certain point because it can't be transferred to the pavement.

[Jouster]

Originally Posted by Darkwing

Good point. The main disadvantage in a high horsepower front drive car is unweighting the front end under hard acceleration. A front drive car won't pop wheelies, but when the wheels lose their traction the horsepower issue becomes moot after a certain point because it can't be transferred to the pavement.

Wouldn't a good bit of that be offset by the weight of the engine being over the wheels, though? </theorycraft>

[SKY Spy]

Originally Posted by Darkwing

Good point. The main disadvantage in a high horsepower front drive car is unweighting the front end under hard acceleration. A front drive car won't pop wheelies, but when the wheels lose their traction the horsepower issue becomes moot after a certain point because it can't be transferred to the pavement.

This is why you see the pro drag racers in FWD cars have installed wheelie bars on their car, to help keep the weigh transfer in check...

BA...

[Darkwing]

Originally Posted by SKY Spy

This is why you see the pro drag racers in FWD cars have installed wheelie bars on their car, to help keep the weigh transfer in check...

BA...

Drag bars and slicks on the front will help traction at the strip, but I bet it makes the car a handfull on the street.

[Elff]

Back to Topic.

I am still crying B.S.
This tune doesn't exist.

[uranium-238]

I say screw cali, let's get the tune out for everyone else, and worry about them later. I doubt GM would submit something that wouldn't pass, so it's probably just tied up in red tape.

[bun1t]

Originally Posted by Bogie

Is 290HP too much for a FWD car the size/weight of Cobalt?

No. My front driver makes 300 at the wheels and it can be a handful but its still fun.

The right suspension mods, lsd, and good tires make all the difference.


For those worried about the Cobalt SS/TC, it ran .1 second faster on a sticky prepped track. You race one from a dig on the street and you'll have 2 cars on him by the time he hooks. The Sky can come out of the hole pretty good so use that to your advantage. Expect to be disappointed if you start from a roll, SRT4's and SS love roll races.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Ahnuld

hmm... doesnt really bother me.

Not saying the styling and convertible top of the sky should cost $6k extra... but they are different cars for different types of buyers providing different experiences.

If you are 24 and bought a Sky RL, you may have thought "I wouldve saved the bucks and gotten same engine in Cobalt"

If you are 30 and older (as are a significant number of Sky RL owners...) I dont think... even if we had the choice of the two when got our skys... that many would've opted out of the Sky RL to go with the Cobalt SS. Remember.. there was a supercharged Cobalt out 2 years ago and we didnt go for it (not as strong an engine.. but it was out there).

Example: I shared that "Turbo shootout" article with a bunch of the younger guys here who most at one time owned WRXs and similar... and they are all taking shots on the 28yr old guy who last year bought an Evo "Mark, why did you send us this? Now that we are all succesfull fancy men its not like any of us owns one of these boy racer cars anymore... oohh... wait... Joe is on this email thread!? "


Besides... the convertible is a big thing too. They come out with a convert Cobalt and add 3k to the price, now you are looking at 27k vs 31k.

I am 32 and hate it. I purposely dropped my 1st in line spot for the base sky, at the time the dealer called me to order, because I knew there was a possibility that there would be a redline with great performance. I waited a year and half to get the RL. When I bought this, the cobalt had a wimpy super charged engine that would not match up to the RL. Also, the RL was actually one of the nicest performing cars out there. The Sky and solstice got very little respect from the the magazines which torqued me off. Now the cobalt gets OUR engine transplanted with some good brakes and the magazines are inviting it to track days against corvettes and porsches! That is why I am angry. I am also angry that I paid almost 2x as much for a car that has no trunk, 2 seats and performs LESS. When I give up a trunk and two rear seats, the car BETTER perform. In other words, when people tell me that I only have two seats and no trunk, I want to be able to come back and say: "yeah, but the power is unbelievable", without them coming back and saying: "you know you could get the same engine for half the price in the cobalt that out performs this thing." Yeah the cobalt is not nearly as good looking as the sky, but how is the sky R/L the "corvette for saturn" when the chevy COBALT, a bottom feeder for chevy, can outrun it? It would be like GM creating a sky with the corvette engine for $23,000 and putting better brakes on it. Sure the guys with their corvettes could say that the sky didn't have the class or pedigree of the corvette. Maybe that the corvette has a hardtop and that makes the corvette better. But in the end, the corvette guys would feel like they were shafted because they paid 2x as much for looks. Thats where I'm at. So - GM better hurry up with this tune.

[Nemesis]

Not to mention that the cobalt SS has destroyed our resale. All those teenagers that may have wanted an RL when the price got into their range can have a new cobalt instead. Thanks again GM.

[uranium-238]

The Redline tops the SS cobalt of several key points though.

1. Rear wheel drive
2. Convertible
3. Looks

Once aftermarket support shows up, the SS cobalt won't have anything on the sky in the engine department. No lift shift isn't that big of a deal. As far as handling upgrades go, RWD is going to be a much better platform to build off of.

[bun1t]

The Cobalt SS is another boy racer car. Anyone over the age of 25 will not be taken seriously. And you guys are forgetting one important thing the Cobalt will never have RWD.

If you guys are seriously worried about the best "bang for the buck" you chose the wrong car. If you wanted something quick, stylish, and fun to drive then the Sky is just that.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by bun1t

The Cobalt SS is another boy racer car. Anyone over the age of 25 will not be taken seriously. And you guys are forgetting one important thing the Cobalt will never have RWD.

If you guys are seriously worried about the best "bang for the buck" you chose the wrong car. If you wanted something quick, stylish, and fun to drive then the Sky is just that.

But that's just it. It was the best bang for the buck. For $32,000 I got a car that looks better the porsche boxster, handled and performed, not to mention got incredible gas mileage. It had a new direct injection engine that was produced specifically for the RL.
Not anymore.
Again, see the corvette analogy....

Overall I'm just letting off some much needed steam at GM. But the RL is one of the nicest cars I have ever driven regardless of price.

[fr0stb1t3]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

But that's just it. It was the best bang for the buck. For $32,000 I got a car that looks better the porsche boxster, handled and performed, not to mention got incredible gas mileage. It had a new direct injection engine that was produced specifically for the RL.
Not anymore.
Again, see the corvette analogy....

Overall I'm just letting off some much needed steam at GM. But the RL is one of the nicest cars I have ever driven regardless of price.

Ok, so what exactly about the Cobalt SS makes it a better bang for your buck? The fact it goes around a track a few seconds faster?

Gas mileage is the same, we perform very similarly in any street use, the sky looks far better, we have RWD, convertible, a WAAAY nicer interior... How the hell did we lose?

[ratsworld]

If I was worried about driving the car in the snow then I would want a FWD, but you just cannot beat a RWD for fun in the corners and at the line. Some how the smoke coming off the front tires never really sits right with me (seen too many Mustangs, Camaros, Chevelles, etc). Ok, so they MAY be able to beat me around the track, but their satisfaction comes only from winning, mine comes simply from how much darn fun I had!! As you can tell from this, I am not a racer (nor am I a ricer), I just bought the car that seamed the most fun without having to pay a luxury or gas-guzzler tax. And no matter what car you get, there is always something cheaper/better/faster/etc....unless you drop the multi-millions for a Veyron, then no one can really touch you.

$0.02


so whats the latest news on OUR tune?

[bun1t]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

But that's just it. It was the best bang for the buck. For $32,000 I got a car that looks better the porsche boxster, handled and performed, not to mention got incredible gas mileage. It had a new direct injection engine that was produced specifically for the RL.
Not anymore.
Again, see the corvette analogy....

The SRT4 has been one of the best bang for the buck cars for awhile and cost $12k less new than a Sky. A 14 second car for $32k is by no means a bang for the buck. It is in the roadster category but thats it. Theres cheaper faster cars already out there.

Do you want to drive a great looking convertible or a hopped up econobox?

If you want the first, you have to pay.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by bun1t

The SRT4 has been one of the best bang for the buck cars for awhile and cost $12k less new than a Sky. A 14 second car for $32k is by no means a bang for the buck. It is in the roadster category but thats it. Theres cheaper faster cars already out there.

Do you want to drive a great looking convertible or a hopped up econobox?

If you want the first, you have to pay.

The neon is a dodge, different company. The neon has very little respect from the magazines(not invited to race days or shootouts) and is not under warrantee after stage 2 upgrade. When the neon was first sold, it was shown on a poster with the word: "Hi" above it - definitely pointed at females. The Cobalt was named after an element and aimed at boy racers from the start. The cobalt is made by GM, the same GM that I paid $32K for a high performance roadster. The cobalt originally has a supercharged engine and fit well in it's compact sports car genre. Dodge did not take the neon and put the hemi in it. Dodge suped the Bajesus out of the 4-banger it had until the warranty wouldn't even cover it anymore. GM took the engine out of "Saturn's corvette" and cut the price in half, with better performance.

I agree with most of your statements: I still would not by the cobalt over the sky RL, but we have to understand that our $32K investment in GM's future just lost face with it's competition. You don't see porsche selling the boxster engine to compact ricer companies...In the roadster genre pedigree of the engine is important.

[Nemesis]

SO.....anyone heard anything about this tune?