I was contacted by the NHTSA this morning

[Sky_Pilot]

About the braking issue I am having with my RL. I certainly hope this means it won't be long before they (Saturn) belly up to the proverbial bar and come up with a retrofit for our Skys, not just a ECU/M quick fix to fool the braking system. Obviously they recoginized a issue enough to upgrade the '09 RL braking system. They need to fix ours!

[Va_Sky]

I noticed on the plant tour that the 2009's are going back to the 2007 style brake setup....

[|V3nom|]

whats wrong with the brakes? i have an 08 with 1200 miles on it, is this something i should be worried about?

[Bogie]

Originally Posted by |V3nom|

whats wrong with the brakes? i have an 08 with 1200 miles on it, is this something i should be worried about?

Poor vacuum assist on cold start. There are several extensive threads on the issue. Search "Brakes" and you'll see.

You need to be "aware" of the problem because when it happens, you will often only have a matter of seconds to respond properly. If you're not aware, and it happens to you, then you may waste precious time trying to figure out what is happening.

[|V3nom|]

so basically dont touch the brake when im starting it up cold?

[Sky_Pilot]

No, that was only part of my problem, and the least part too! My brakes have gotten spongy twice now coming off the freeway - spongy that they failed to adequately stop me. My Sky is now at another dealer for repair. Although they tell me it's only a re-flash to fix. I'm not sure that I want to stake my life or my wife's on the fact that re-flashing is going to solve a problem that is solved on the 2009 by installing a auxiliary vacuum pump; seems like apples and oranges to me.

[|V3nom|]

did it first happen after a hard stop or just randomly happen?

[WishfulThinking]

I hope the reported sightings of the 09 with a pump really do translate to 09's with pumps on the dealer's lots later on. I'm a little afraid that what was seen was just a preproduction demo, and not necessarily a completely accurate reflection of what will roll out.(?)

[Jade Sky]

Hubby was talking with the service dept today (different GM matter), and rumor has it that a recall may be forthcoming soon for the brakes, and they recommended we wait on getting the ECM flashed....hmmm......

[technogray]

Or they could work just fine.

[jonahgirl]

I got an email this morning as well. I answered the questions and emailed back. So far all I have noticed is the cold start issue but I haven't gotten a chance to drive it on the highway yet.

[MataguaySky]

If I start up and take off, No Brakes.

So I sit and watch my Tach which is at about 1350 RPM for the first 45 seconds to a minute, then it will drop to about 850 RPM.

Once it hits 850 I am good to go

It goes to the dealer tomorrow night for the Cat Back treatment while I am out of town on Wednesday. I asked them to look at the TSB and apply the corrective action. so we will see what effect that has.

Bogie, I'll get the new RPM and times for you after the fix.

[|V3nom|]

what does tsb mean?

[Skip]

Originally Posted by |V3nom|

what does tsb mean?

Technical Service Bullitan...Skip...

[|V3nom|]

is that is the ecm?

[LANDSCAPE]

Originally Posted by |V3nom|

is that is the ecm?

ecm = Electronic Control Module, or also known as the computer that runs the systems on the car. the brains

[|V3nom|]

so where is the tsb located?

[ChgoBlues]

Originally Posted by |V3nom|

so where is the tsb located?

Its what the service technician (aka mechanic) uses to diagnose and repair your vehicle. GM distributes TSBs when they become aware of a common issue for a vehicle and work to find a viable repair. In the instance of a safety issue, ie the brake concern many are having, a recall may be issued.

A TSB is one that an owner may or may not experience with a vehicle, its more of an alert for the techs to use if they have a vehicle comes in with those concerns. A RECALL is a fix that has to be performed on the vehicle regardless if it is being experienced.

Currently, the brake issue is being looked at by NHTSA and I would imagine Saturn is looking into it as well.

[LANDSCAPE]

Originally Posted by |V3nom|

so where is the tsb located?

Usually on a clipboard or in a binder in the shop office

[cdb33]

We had our redline back to the dealer the first weekend that we owned the car with the breaking problems we've had. It's been back & they have continuously told us that theat's the way they are designed, there is no flaw. When I asked them if they wanted to stand behind me when I first start the car & put it into reverse-of course nobody was willing to try out that exparament. So Finally they came to us when the car was in for an oil change & said Corporate posted a bulliten & advised on a fix for your breaking problem (We were right?)- That "fix" didnt work. the next morning it did the same thing. brought it back again- they said "there is no problem, that's the design". Finally after MUCH gruff from the sales person, service manager, finance manager and sales manager we got the general manager's phone number. She was willing to work with us, but the corporate offices of saturn isnt. The sky is about to go back on the lemmon law. It's too bad too cause it's a great & fun car when you are soaking up the sun w/ the top down. But after all the headached & lies I'll NEVER deal with saturn again once this is over.

[TINOONIT]

v3, read your manual.

GM FIX OUR BRAKES!

[MidniteBlues]

Originally Posted by cdb33

We had our redline back to the dealer the first weekend :bang head: that we owned the car with the breaking problems we've had. It's been back & they have continuously told us that theat's the way they are designed, there is no flaw. When I asked them if they wanted to stand behind me when I first start the car & put it into reverse-of course nobody was willing to try out that exparament. So Finally they came to us when the car was in for an oil change & said Corporate posted a bulliten & advised on a fix for your breaking problem (We were right?)- That "fix" didnt work. the next morning it did the same thing. brought it back again- they said "there is no problem, that's the design". Finally after MUCH gruff from the sales person, service manager, finance manager and sales manager we got the general manager's phone number. She was willing to work with us, but the corporate offices of saturn isnt. The sky is about to go back on the lemmon law. It's too bad too cause it's a great & fun car when you are soaking up the sun w/ the top down. But after all the headached & lies I'll NEVER deal with saturn again once this is over.

You are certainly within your rights to return the car within the first 30 days I believe is the law & Saturn policy. However, trying to tag it as a lemon would probably be a "more difficult" path IMHO and may not be doable..simply because you think there is a "flaw' with the brakes. The manual you received specifically states to wait a bit before you move the car to build up vacuum. BTW, this brake issue was and continues to be one of the reasons I stayed away from the 08 R/L's this year when we negotiated a deal for my 07. I'll be looking at the 09's, if same issue there, no 09's this year either.... Since my wife (primary driver) & daughters drive my Sky 90% of the time, solid brake functions is mandatory!! not a maybe, so I for one do not fault you on returning you particular R/L. Good Luck...Tuff 1st post BTW, donno whether to welcome to the forum or say good-bye...