Manual Transmission Linkage Mystery

[CRUX]

I've had my RL since February 07. I have 7K miles on it. Other then a new Magnaflow 3" Cat Back System, all is stock. I have always noticed since new, when pushing in the clutch or shifting to 2nd at low speeds a metal linkage rattling noise occurs. The sound is definitely in the drive train and sounds as if two long metal rods are touching or bouncing off each other or slightly slapping together. It only lasts for a moment. (Visualize the sound of heavy gage wire hangers hitting together, hanging in a closet and lasts just a moment) It mostly happens from 1st to 2nd sometimes right after pushing in the clutch, before I actually move the gearshift. Other times it happens while shifting from 1st to 2nd. When I am accelerating quickly I don't notice it. It happens maybe 50% of the time but I think it is becoming more frequent. I took it to the Dealer twice and they keep saying they can't hear anything. Has anyone got any ideas ????

[Mandi]

Its normal drivetrain rattle from being at low rpms in to high of a gear.....nearly all manual transmissions do it.

[IndySky99]

I've noticed it as well...I figured it was kind of normal but wasn't sure. Oddly enough, I've noticed it more when I'm in the passenger seat and someone else is driving. I figured it was that they weren't as accustome to driving a manual as I was...but of course then I hear it from time to time when I drive it too. Good to know it's normal and others have it!

[AnonNomis]

This sounds like the normal drive train clunk that everyone has and gm insists is normal. Its so common that gm includes it in the quick start guide that came with your car. If your dealership techs have never heard it then they aren't very experienced with the sky.

[gadget]

Originally Posted by AnonNomis

This sounds like the normal drive train clunk that everyone has and gm insists is normal. Its so common that gm includes it in the quick start guide that came with your car. If your dealership techs have never heard it then they aren't very experienced with the sky.

Actually the clunk is not a rattle. The clunk generally happens when from Forward to reverse or back again and sometimes on start up. it is the gears shifting back and forth in the Differential. All limited slip differentials make a clunk it's just that some are better isolated from the chassis so the noise is not as prominent.GM has changed the way the differential is mounted in later models to minimize the noise made from the clunk.

I would have to agree with Mandi. He probably needs to Rev a little higher in first gear.or not use 2nd gear at such a low speed that it causes the engine to shudder.

If you have a CAI you will probably hear what I call the Click which sounds like a handfull of screws or a small chain dropped into a coffee can. It's caused by the throttle actuator throwing the butterfly wide open from a closed position. happens mostly when starting off from a complete stop.
Drove me nuts untill I figured out what it was

[CRUX]

No, the sound I am hearing is not a clunk or a chain in a can. It is definitely a metal sound (but not a clunk) and it happens MOST when pushing in the clutch just prior to shifting into 2nd. If I start off at a normal throttle in first gear and push in the clutch the sound happens just as the clutch disengages. It is kind of a “tinny” sound like dragging something quickly across bicycle spokes. . It has been happening more and more. I will schedule service next week and I will take the service tech out for a drive.

[Darkwing]

Mine makes the same sound under the same circumstances. It has done this since new. I believe it is a 'normal' thing with these transmissions.

[Jeff Donald]

If the noise is heard when you engage the clutch (and only then) it might be the throw out bearing. It generally can't be heard at higher RPM and speeds. But under the right conditions the bearing can be heard. This is normal, unless the noise becomes excessive and can be heard at higher RPM's.

[CRUX]

Thanks for the input. I hope it isn't "normal" because it really sounds cheap! I have been in other rosters and none have that "tinny" sound. They all sound and feel solid. If it is a throw out bearing maybe replacing it will stop the noise and make it feel tighter? I guess another option would be to go with the automatic? I scheduled service on Wednesday so we’ll see what happens.

[xmicro_Redline]

Originally Posted by CRUX

Thanks for the input. I hope it isn't "normal" because it really sounds cheap! I have been in other rosters and none have that "tinny" sound. They all sound and feel solid. If it is a throw out bearing maybe replacing it will stop the noise and make it feel tighter? I guess another option would be to go with the automatic? I scheduled service on Wednesday so we’ll see what happens.

There are a few cheap sounds that this car makes, I say turn up the stereo and they go away!

But seriously, you have 10 years or 100,000 miles to figure out if it is not normal, so I wouldn't sweat it. Maybe go to a local SKY meet and show a fellow manual SKY owner. Good to have another unbiased opinion!

[CRUX]

Okay, so I took my Sky into the Dealer for service today… I had the dealerships main service technician go out with me for a test drive before he got started with the diagnostics. My service tag reads: “Customer states when clutch is pressed in and or gearshift activated there is noise. Check & Advise” So we take the test-drive and every time I am in first gear and press in the clutch there is a metal slapping or suttering noise coming from the drive train (mostly from the rear). The noise is present in the other gears but most definitely in first. The technician tells me he positively hears it and it’s good that its consistence, so they can trouble shoot it easier. So we go back to the dealership and they take the car away for about 2 hours. I get the call it is ready and the service representative gives me a three page document (see attached) and tells me everything is fine and they went ahead and completed the scheduled maintenance and all is good… After reading the document, which states: [The purpose of this bulletin is to assist in identifying characteristics of manual transmissions that repair attempts will not change.] Oh, and one other note: this document/bulletin is for most all GM cars in general. I spoke to the sales manager who was a pretty down to earth guy, as I knew him when I brought the car. Now he goes out and talkes to the service technician. So he comes back and tells me “basically if it isn’t causing a safety concern it’s just a design issue and you’ll just have to live with it!” Also, there is another bulletin coming out this month that specifically mentions the “SKY drive train” and the “Clutch” and apparently there is something about a “DAMPER” that makes noise when the clutch is depressed at low throttle and low speeds!! Again, they know about these issues but they are keeping it under wraps and just publishing disclaimers in the form of bulletins. So, back to my service tag: It states: “Inspected & verified test drive with customer. Rattle type sound present coming from rear when pushing in clutch. No damage or loose parts found. See Noise Doc# 03-07-29-004E for normal trans… Customer is advised” So that’s the gist of it!! Someone had said in an earlier reply “just turn up the radio”…. he must have been a used car salesman in his past as that’s what was done back in the day to hide noises!!! So bottom line…. If it’s broke GM will replace the parts but if it’s not causing a safety issue or doesn’t impede performance, you are stuck with it and you get no sympathy! So when you read reviews about the Saturn Sky and they say its all good, they just might be talking about an automatic transmission!!!

[Nova-Exarch]

Originally Posted by CRUX

Thanks for the input. I hope it isn't "normal" because it really sounds cheap! I have been in other rosters and none have that "tinny" sound. They all sound and feel solid. If it is a throw out bearing maybe replacing it will stop the noise and make it feel tighter? I guess another option would be to go with the automatic? I scheduled service on Wednesday so we’ll see what happens.

What other roadsters?

Because some of them have the benefit of being on their 5th, 6th... 20th+ (Miata?) year.

Some of them also cost a bunch more so they can afford designing more soundproofing.

I'm lucky enough to have ridden or driven in a couple dozen different convertible/roadster type vehicles an our car is raw in many ways and very technologically advanced in other ways.

I hate the noisiness of our transmission. But... the thing is pretty damned tough from what I have read. To me that trade off seems worth it. Yes, if I could have bulletproof AND quiet I would rather have that, but if I had to choose just one... eh... I'll take the clicks and clunks.

I hate the ticking noise from the engine compartment. But... I LOVE that it is direct injection. I am all about the newest advances and whatnot... especially when it involves more powah!

I hope you don’t let the small quirks ruin the overall experience for ya. I felt the same way when I noticed the engine ticking for the first time. There are plenty of fun roadsters out there that are way quirkier. (granted most of them are older and British :P )

[gadget]

This is a complaint about a 2007 MX-5:2007 MAZDA MX-5 CAR ACCELERATED AND THE AIR BAGS EXPLODED**CC *JB.

Here's a 2005 complaint:Consumer Complaint:
I PURCHASED A USED 2005 MAZDA MIATA 5-SPEED IN APRIL 2006 WITH 7860 MILES ON THE ODOMETER FROM THE LOCAL CHRYSLER DEALER. I HAD NOT DRIVEN THE VEHICLE OUT OF TOWN UNTIL OCTOBER 2006. ON THE INTERSTATE HIGHWAY I NOTICED THE VEHICLE HAD INADEQUATE POWER TO SAFELY DRIVE AT THE SPEED LIMIT (80 MPH). TOP SPEED IS ONLY 82 MPH @ 4200 RPM IN FIFTH GEAR (SHOULD BE 120 MPH PLUS) AND ACCELERATION UP A HILL IS BAD. I MUST DOWNSHIFT AND FLOOR THE ACCELERATOR TO MAINTAIN SPEED UP HILL AND THE CRUISE CONTROL WILL NOT HOLD THE SPEED. TRYING TO PASS A SLOW VEHICLE UPHILL IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE. THE VEHICLE IS IN THE LOCAL MAZDA DEALER'S SERVICE DEPARTMENT WHERE THEY HAVE NOT FOUND THE CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM. I HAVE HAD THE VEHICLE SERVICED AS REQUIRED AT THE MAZDA DEALER AND HAVE EVEN REPLACED THE AIR FILTER WHEN NOT REQUIRED. THIS VEHICLE IS UNSAFE TO DRIVE OTHER THAN ON FLAT, LOW SPEED, CITY ROADS. *NM

Date of Incident:
20061020

2006 miata:Consumer Complaint:
WHEN THE TEMPERATURE DROPS TO ABOUT 25 DEGREES OR LESS, THE VEHICLE'S POWER WINDOWS BECOME INOPERATIVE. WATER/ICE HAS NEVER BEEN PRESENT ON THE VEHICLE'S EXTERIOR, ALTHOUGH IT IS UNKNOWN IF WATER/ICE IS PRESENT INSIDE THE DOORS THEMSELVES. REMEDY: ATTEMPT TO LOWER AND RAISE THE VEHICLE WINDOWS UNTIL WHATEVER IS HOLDING THE WINDOWS CAPTIVE "BREAKS". THIS CAN REQUIRE UPWARDS OF 300 DOWN/UP ATTEMPTS AND USUALLY TAKES MORE THAN 5 MINUTES. MY MAZDA DEALER, EVEN AFTER SEEING A VIDEO OF THE WINDOW FAILURE, HAS BEEN UNWILLING TO EVEN LOOK BEHIND THE DOOR PANELS. *NM

Date of Incident:
20060213

another 2006:Consumer Complaint:
DT: THE CONTACT COMPLAINED ABOUT VEHICLE OVER STEERING. HE MUST CONSTANTLY MOVE THE STEERING WHEEL TO KEEP THE VEHICLE DRIVING STRAIGHT AND FROM WONDERING. THE SERVICE DEALER COMPLETED DIAGNOSTIC TESTING AND TEST DROVE THE VEHICLE. THE DEALER WAS AWARE OF THE PROBLEM, AND CONTACTED THE MANUFACTURER. HOWEVER, THE MANUFACTURER STATED NO SOLUTION WAS AVAILABLE. THE ALIGNMENT SPECIFICATIONS ON THE TIRES WAS CHECKED TO RULE OUT ANY TIRE CONCERN WITH THE STEERING. NO REPAIRS HAVE BEEN MADE. THE VEHICLE IS A 2006 MAZDA MX5 CONVERTIBLE.*AK

Date of Incident:
20051118

Consumer Complaint:
CAR STARTED RATTLING FROM THE CONSOLE AREA BETWEEN THE SEATS WHERE YOU OPEN YOUR GAS CAP AT. THIS STARTED ABOUT A MONTH INTO HAVING THE VEHICLE. THE CONVERTIBLE TOP IS LEAKING. I TOOK THE VEHICLE IN FOR IT'S 3000 MILE MAINTENANCE. I WAS TOLD THAT "CONVERTIBLE TOPS LEAK AND THEY COULD NOT DUPLICATE THE RATTLE." THE RATTLE HAS SINCE GOTTEN WORSE AND THE CONVERTIBLE TOP IS STILL LEAKING. I WILL BE TAKING THE VEHICLE IN AGAIN FOR THEM TO FIX THE PROBLEM. HOWEVER, I DO NOT FEEL THAT I AM MAKING MUCH PROGRESS. *JB

Date of Incident:
20060707

Consumer Complaint:
THIS MX-5 HAS THE 5 SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION. WITH APPROXIMATELY 1,200 MILES ON THE VEHICLE, THE CLUTCH FRICTION POINT (THE LOCATION IN PEDAL TRAVEL WHERE THE CLUTCH BEGINS TO ENGAGE) MOVED FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE PEDAL (NEAR THE FLOOR) TO APPROXIMATELY ONE INCH FROM THE TOP (PEDAL NORMAL POSITION -- NOT DEPRESSED). SERVICING DEALER HELD THE VEHICLE OVERNIGHT AND STATED "THEY ALL DO THAT". WHEN I REQUESTED TO DRIVE THE VEHICLE THEY COMPARED IT TO, I WAS TOLD THEY WERE TOO BUSY. I WALKED OVER TO THE SALES DEPARTMENT AND ASKED A SALESPERSON IF I COULD COMPARE MINE TO A SIMILARLY-EQUIPPED MODEL ON THE LOT. WE LOCATED THE ONLY OTHER 5 SPEED MANUAL IN THEIR INVENTORY AND I CONFIRMED THE CLUTCH ENGAGEMENT WAS TOWARDS THE BOTTOM OF PEDAL TRAVEL, JUST AS MINE WAS WHEN IT WAS "NEW". THE FRICTION POINT ON THIS CLUTCH CONTINUES TO CREEP FORWARD. I'M ASSUMING THE PEDAL WILL HAVE NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER IN ABOUT 500 MILES. I'VE CHECKED THE CLUTCH FLUID (SHARED WITH THE BRAKE FLUID RESERVOIR) AND THE LEVEL IS WITHIN NORMAL RANGE. MY DEALER REFUSES TO ADMIT THERE IS A PROBLEM. I INTEND TO TAKE THIS ISSUE DIRECTLY TO MAZDA AFTER CONSULTING WITH THE DEALERSHIP'S GENERAL MANAGER NEXT WEEK. I'VE BEEN DRIVING MANUAL TRANSMISSION VEHICLES MY WHOLE LIFE. I TYPICALLY GET AT LEAST 100,000 MILES PER CLUTCH. THIS IS NOT A DRIVER ERROR ISSUE. *NM

Date of Incident:
2006021

Just wanted to share the greener side of the pasture with ya!

[CRUX]

So I couldn't deal with the annoying metal sound any longer and it was getting to the point that I didn’t want to drive my baby…every time I pushed in the clutch I heard metal noises…. so I traded it back into Saturn and took a monetary beating…. I traded up to a ‘08 AUTOMATIC!! Sometimes you got to do what you got to do… I hope no one else has a similar problem, as GM won’t acknowledge it unless it becomes life threatening. There is a definite problem and at some point it will resurface.