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Old 08-13-2016, 02:12 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Milky oil

Hi, I have a 2009 Sky RL, today I was driving and a Low coolant level message showed up, no signs of any leaks, so I refilled the coolant reservoir, 30 miles later the Low coolant message reappered and again no signs of leaking coolant, but this time I checked my oil and it was milky, so I know I have coolant in my oil, but no oil in my coolant, Have any of you guys had this problem before?

The car did not overheated, the temperature was always between 185-199 F on a 90 F weather
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Old 08-13-2016, 05:34 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Typically milky oil is a sign of a failed head gasket, though this failure seems to be relatively uncommon on the LNF. You need to stop driving the car immediately and have the problem investigated. Driving with an oil pan full of coolant will destroy your engine and turbocharger in short order.
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Old 08-13-2016, 08:56 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Yes I agree that sounds like a failed head gasket. Let's hope the head is not warped. Re-machining a head can be expensive, on top of the repair cost for the new gasket replacement, new coolant, new oil etc. I would have it looked into ASAP. Do it now, before it takes out your whole motor. What you pay now for this repair, will be far less than what you will pay for IF your motor takes a crap. 2009 model yr. Seems odd that this would happen so soon, but we all know that our cooling system, especially our water pumps have a history of failing. Bad gaskets or adhesives from the factory? Maybe it could be that, I understand if it has high mileage or track wear and tear use, but other owners here have had to change out their head gaskets before, mostly on motor replacement or major upgrades to their motors.

Do it soon, before more stuff goes wrong with it. Lot of money for the repair, but is better than having to replace your motor later.

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Old 08-13-2016, 09:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Agree with above, and coolant in the oil can create havoc with cam bearings and things. Don't ignore.
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Old 08-14-2016, 10:31 AM   #5 (permalink)
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OUCH-not a good sign
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Old 08-14-2016, 04:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Head gasket or crack in head/block, or possible weeping past the cylinder bottom seat.

Get it fixed ASAP.
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Old 08-14-2016, 11:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wspohn View Post
Head gasket or crack in head/block, or possible weeping past the cylinder bottom seat.

Get it fixed ASAP.
I hope for your sake its a blown head gasket. Its the cheapest...unless you ran it for a long time without realizing the water was there.....Good Luck
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Old 08-15-2016, 04:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Ssky, hate to say it but these guys are right. You really need to check it out and find out how much damage has been done. Like Davhamm mentioned, water in the oil can do nasty things to crank and rod bearings. If you ran without coolant for too long, you can have issues with the head as well.

This is something that has been seen before with the LNF. I had an LNF that had coolant in the oil and tore the thing down to try and find the source. Head gasket looked good and figured the failure was somewhere deep in the head or block. My turbo came from that motor because the owner, Skypilot here on the forums, caught the issue early and shut down the engine before too much additional damage occurred. Skypilot decided to just go with a rebuilt engine (hence why I got his old one) and not worry about tearing down his engine to check the bearings. When I took it apart, the rod bearings looked good. Never pulled the pistons to check the rod bearings.

You have some options. You can have a shop look at it and hope there is no damage to the internals and that the problem is just a head gasket.

You can have a shop pull the engine, tear it down, and determine where the problem is and what the condition of the engine/head is. If it can be salvaged, rebuilt it completely.

Just have a shop swap out the engine with a rebuilt unit. For this option, I'd stick with one of our trusted shops as a source for your rebuilt engine.

Each option has pros and cons. If it is just a head gasket and you don't have any further damage, the first option will be the cheapest but if the head gasket isn't the issue, then options 2 or 3 will be your only ones. If you then go with option two, you may find the block or head is not reusable. This can work out to be the most expensive option depending on what you find out as you go down this road as the labor costs to tear down and fully diagnose the problem can be expensive. Option three is dropping a lot of money up front for the piece of mind of knowing everything is right and not taking the risk of spending more money trying to rebuild your stock engine only to find out half way through that you can't use the stock block.

Of course, you can always sell the car too but I don't recommend that. You'll regret it unless you replace it with something comparable.
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Old 08-15-2016, 10:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I did a dry cylinder compression test and this are my results: (COLD ENGINE)
Cyl No 1: 130
Cyl No 2: 145
Cyl No 3: 130
Cyl No 4: 140

Spark plugs look very good, but I replaced them 200 miles ago

What do you guys think? porous block or head gasket?

Before towing the car it ran fine, no noises

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Old 08-16-2016, 12:04 AM   #10 (permalink)
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From what I've read you're within speck for compression. Below 105 they say is a concern. Anywhere from 110 to 180 is within range so long as the cylinders are within 70% of one another. Again, this is just what I read from a quick lookup.
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Old 08-17-2016, 09:14 AM   #11 (permalink)
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This is a confusing one here. Compression test looks ok, but then again could be something there. No visual sign of fluid loss, yet the temps did not overheat. No odd noises but the replacement of fluid every 2-3 hrs. there after. I would have said it was a failed head gasket, then I thought about it some more. wspohn might be right here. Could be a crack in the head or block. Engine tear down can and will be expensive. So long as neither one of those is gone, it can be re-built. Block good, head cracked, the head can be replaced, the block cracked not so much, new one for sure.

Robo has some fine points, as others here have gone through complete tear down and rebuild of our motors. Replacing the failed part is the only option, full tear down, to partial tear down, to full on replacement. Tough call as to what to do, how long, at what cost? Good mechanic will be able to tell how bad the news is. After that all up to the checkbook/credit card to replace the permagrin to it's rightful place.

Not everything on this motor has failed. To what extent is the internal damage, like davehamm said: cam bearings, and or cylinder/pistons, crank, good knows what else, but if there is no damage to these parts they can be reused. Once you have the engine apart, now is the time, to replace what you can. Don't want to come back in 1,000 miles after a rebuild and find out, seal bearing went out, or some other part took a sh*t on you. Expensive as hell I know, but to get the satisfaction of a limited warranty on the rebuild, make sure now, not after the money and time spent. Nothing like having to return to your rebuilder with your car on a flat bed, that look on your face says it all to the mechanic. That's right! Oh no not that look again!

Keep a running record timeline of all that is done to your motor and SKY. History for you, the car, and the group of us owners out there.

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Old 08-17-2016, 10:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
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These things can be very trying.

I had a six cylinder MG that was showing overheating symptoms and some milky oil.

I used a dye test to see if there were any combustion gasses getting into the coolant. Negative. No compression loss. I feared an internal crack, but finally decided to pull the head off.

No signs at all of anything getting past the gasket (it was a fairly newly rebuilt engine and I had cleaned the block surface and skimmed the head, so easy to see signs of gasket leakage.

As the next step would have been to disassemble the engine and have the major castings checked for cracks, I opted to instead simply install a new head gasket, even though the one I took out looked pristine, and run it. That was 20 years ago and it has never had another problem of that sort!

Sometimes you scratch your head and get lucky and move on.....
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Old 08-17-2016, 12:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LAC Sky View Post
Not everything on this motor has failed. To what extent is the internal damage, like davehamm said: cam bearings, and or cylinder/pistons, crank, good knows what else, but if there is no damage to these parts they can be reused. Once you have the engine apart, now is the time, to replace what you can. Don't want to come back in 1,000 miles after a rebuild and find out, seal bearing went out, or some other part took a sh*t on you.
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While true I'd be the first one to say if you're going to go all the way down to inspecting the bearings, why not see what the cost would be for a rebuild? Since the labor costs to tear down to that level (and putting it back together, I assume) are already incurred, now you're looking at parts and labor to swap out bearings, put in new rings, refresh the sleeves, make sure everything is in spec and reassemble. When you're done, you'll have an engine that is as close as you can get to a 0 miles engine without physically buying a brand new crate engine.

That's the quandary with issues like this. If you're going to tear down the engine to try and see what you can reuse, how close will the cost of that come to just replacing those parts anyway or buying a new or rebuilt engine? Which is cheaper in the long run? For me, I dropped about $5,000 on a rebuild and had an engine capable of holding 800hp + on a build that was designed to top out at about 500hp so you can see I am the type that believes in building bigger than you need for durability and reliability sake.

If I was in your shoes, the choices would be replace the head gasket and see what happens then, if that fails, total rebuild or replace the engine entirely.


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These things can be very trying.

I had a six cylinder MG that was showing overheating symptoms and some milky oil.

I used a dye test to see if there were any combustion gasses getting into the coolant. Negative. No compression loss. I feared an internal crack, but finally decided to pull the head off.

No signs at all of anything getting past the gasket (it was a fairly newly rebuilt engine and I had cleaned the block surface and skimmed the head, so easy to see signs of gasket leakage.

As the next step would have been to disassemble the engine and have the major castings checked for cracks, I opted to instead simply install a new head gasket, even though the one I took out looked pristine, and run it. That was 20 years ago and it has never had another problem of that sort!

Sometimes you scratch your head and get lucky and move on.....
And that's why I'd opt to try the head gasket first. From what I saw in my teardown of Sky Pilot's engine, the head gasket looked good but there were no obvious cracks in anything else. I may have tried to swap the head gasket out and see if it worked but I had nothing to test it in. I was still convinced from what I saw that there was a crack in the head somewhere based on how the oil and water mixed and was present in the engine.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
If I was in your shoes, the choices would be replace the head gasket and see what happens then, if that fails, total rebuild or replace the engine entirely.

And that's why I'd opt to try the head gasket first. From what I saw in my teardown of Sky Pilot's engine, the head gasket looked good but there were no obvious cracks in anything else. I may have tried to swap the head gasket out and see if it worked but I had nothing to test it in. I was still convinced from what I saw that there was a crack in the head somewhere based on how the oil and water mixed and was present in the engine.
I agree, swap out the head gasket and TRY THAT first, its cheap
.
But before you put it back together check the head for cracks. You already have it off, so check it.

It is possible to find ALL cracks very inexpensively. Go to an aircraft shop and buy three spray cans. One can contains cleaner. another contains a dye, and the third contains a developer. Instructions will be included. Basically, spray with the dye, spray with the cleaner,spray with the developer. The dye will get into cracks, the cleaner will remove all dye that is not in a crack. The developer sprays on like a white paint and any dye that is in a crack will show as a purple line on a white background, cant miss even a microscopic crack. Even microscopic cracks can expand when the engine gets warm and make BIG leaks.
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Old 08-17-2016, 02:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I'm not sure that test will find cracks that are in the water passages of the head Blue. This is the bottom of an Ecotec head. Anyone on here more familiar with where everything passes through this beast?



(2.0 LSJ supercharged head shown but should be fairly similar to LNF head)
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