NHTSA determines '08 brakes no problem

[RedlineBlue]

I know a snipit of this is in another thread, I thought I would post the entire wording from the NHTSA and to make it easier for others to find in the future via searching.
CONTROLLED BY SWITCHES THAT SENSED BOOSTER VACUUM, TURNING THE
IN MODEL YEAR (MY) 2007, PONTIAC SOLSTICE AND SATURN SKY VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH THE 2.0L TURBOCHARGED ENGINE USED AN AUXILIARY VACUUM PUMP TO SUPPLEMENT THE ENGINE AS A SOURCE OF VACUUM TO THE BRAKE BOOSTER DURING LOW VACUUM CONDITIONS, SUCH AS IMMEDIATELY AFTER A COLD START. THE VACUUM PUMP OPERATION WAS PUMP ON WHEN BOOSTER VACUUM DROPPED BELOW A SPECIFIED LEVEL. IN THE MY 2008 SOLSTICE AND SKY VEHICLES (THE SUBJECT VEHICLES), GENERAL MOTORS (GM) ELIMINATED THE AUXILIARY VACUUM PUMP AND REPLACED IT WITH THE OPTIMIZED HYDRAULIC BRAKING (OHB) SYSTEM. THE DESIGN INTENT OF OHB IS TO SUPPLEMENT ENGINE VACUUM, IN CONDITIONS WHERE LOW VACUUM IS GENERATED BY THE ENGINE, WITH HYDRAULIC PRESSURE GENERATED BY THE STABILITY CONTROL SYSTEM PUMP CONTROLLED BY THE ELECTRONIC BRAKE CONTROL MODULE (EBCM). FOR UP TO ABOUT A MINUTE AFTER A COLD START, WHEN THE SYSTEM IS IN OHB ASSIST MODE, THE DRIVER MUST PRESS HARDER ON THE BRAKE PEDAL TO ACHIEVE DESIRED DECELERATION. ALSO, WHEN THE OHB MODE IS ACTIVATED, THE DRIVER CAN HEAR AND FEEL, THROUGH BRAKE PEDAL VIBRATION, THE STABILITY CONTROL SYSTEM PUMP OPERATION. STARTING IN LATE APRIL 2008, GM CHANGED FROM THE OHB SYSTEM BACK TO THE VACUUM PUMP SYSTEM DESIGN. ODI IS AWARE OF 264 NON-DUPLICATIVE COMPLAINTS TO ODI AND GM ALLEGING INADEQUATE BRAKE POWER ASSIST IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES WHEN APPLYING THE BRAKES JUST AFTER A COLD START, INCLUDING ONE INCIDENT INVOLVING A CRASH INTO A TREE DURING A DRIVEWAY MANEUVER. TO ADDRESS THESE CONCERNS BY CONSUMERS, GM HAS ISSUED THREE TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETINS. ON JUNE 4, 2007, GM RELEASED AN INFORMATIONAL BULLETIN (NO PART REPLACEMENT OR SOFTWARE UPDATES), BULLETIN# 07-05-22-002, TO DEALERS EXPLAINING THE FUNCTIONALITY OF THE OHB SYSTEM. ON NOVEMBER 29, 2007, GM RELEASED A SERVICE BULLETIN, BULLETIN# 07-05-22-007, WITH INSTRUCTIONS TO RECALIBRATE THE EBCM WITH REVISED SOFTWARE TO MAKE OHB OPERATION FEEL MORE LIKE A NORMAL VACUUM ASSIST SYSTEM. TO IMPROVE COLD START BRAKING PERFORMANCE COMPARABLE TO MY 2007 VEHICLES, GM RELEASED A THIRD SERVICE BULLETIN IN TWO PARTS, BULLETINS 07-05-25-007A (APRIL 29, 2008) AND 07-05-25-007B (MAY 16, 2008), FOR AUTOMATIC AND MANUAL TRANSMISSION VEHICLES RESPECTIVELY. THESE BULLETINS RELEASED NEW ENGINE CONTROL SOFTWARE TO CHANGE THE IDLE STRATEGY AFTER A COLD START SO THAT MORE VACUUM IS AVAILABLE FOR BRAKE POWER ASSIST. BEGINNING THE WEEK OF JUNE 23, 2008, GM WILL BEGIN SENDING LETTERS TO CONSUMERS TO MAKE THEM AWARE OF THE AVAILABILITY OF MOST RECENT CALIBRATION.
A SAFETY-RELATED DEFECT HAS NOT BEEN IDENTIFIED AT THIS TIME AND FURTHER USE OF AGENCY RESOURCES DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE WARRANTED. ACCORDINGLY, THIS INVESTIGATION IS CLOSED. THE CLOSING OF THIS INVESTIGATION DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A FINDING BY NHTSA THAT A SAFETY-RELATED DEFECT DOES NOT EXIST. THE AGENCY WILL TAKE FURTHER ACTION IF WARRANTED BY THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

[drgallo]

Originally Posted by RedlineBlue

INCLUDING ONE INCIDENT INVOLVING A CRASH INTO A TREE DURING A DRIVEWAY MANEUVER.

I think that some of us would consider THAT as a problem.

Another fine example of your taxpayer dollars at work.

[MidniteBlues]

Originally Posted by RedlineBlue

I know a snipit of this is in another thread, I thought I would post the entire wording from the NHTSA and to make it easier for others to find in the future via searching.
STARTING IN LATE APRIL 2008, GM CHANGED FROM THE OHB SYSTEM BACK TO THE VACUUM PUMP SYSTEM DESIGN.

Well that to me IF true, will put me in the market for a 2009.. I will be popping to hood for sure to make certain those parts are installed, AND will start the car and move it instantly and hit the brakes, if it stops like my current sky, I'll buy it.. However, I do not have any comfort for those who have the OHB system. I am hopeful that once GM 'perfects' these s/w tweaks they can make the system as safe as those with the original vac assist systems.. We can only hope, if they can't, they should have/ make a fall back position and make kits available, to retro the parts.. Maybe even at a nominal costs.. I for one would probably pay if the price is reasonable.. BUT it should be free..

[blzcrzr]

Received a letter from Saturn today They will fix the brake warmup problem.
TSB-07-05-25-007B.

[Bogie]

The title of the thread is not accurate. The NHTSA did not determine the 08RL doesn't have a brake problem. Rather, they could not identify a brake problem.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


The disconcerting part of their response is the NHTSA study appears to be only a paper investigation. NOTHING in the NHTSA report identifies that any tests were performed by NHTSA. Hence, they get to collect the reports from owners, combine it with reports from GM, and make a ruling. If you don't test it, you have ZERO technical basis on which to rule against it. Hence. No Techical Test. No Technical Evidence. Can't identify a brake problem.

Bottom Line: NHTSA does not want to issue a problem statement as long as GM is attempting to fix the problem.

If the latest TSB does not solve the problem for a good number of owners, I have a method to re-open the investigation. At this point, we'll wait and see. Post your feedback on the boards when you have the TSB fix applied to your vehicle. This is government beauracracy in motion. Hang in there. It's not over....unless the TSB actually fixes the problem.

[RedlineBlue]

The title of the thread is not accurate. The NHTSA did not determine the 08RL doesn't have a brake problem. Rather, they could not identify a brake problem

You are correct Bogie. I changed the title to hopefully something more appropriate.

[WishfulThinking]

Originally Posted by MidniteBlues

I will be popping to hood for sure to make certain those parts are installed, AND will start the car and move it instantly and hit the brakes...

When I test-drove an 08, it was "policy" to pull the car up to the door for the customer.

[MidniteBlues]

Originally Posted by WishfulThinking

When I test-drove an 08, it was "policy" to pull the car up to the door for the customer.

Yea, thats probably so for all dealers, but the reality is, I don't need a test drive really. All I want to do pop the hood and look. With that request, I can probably "get it done" in the show room I'm sure. THEN, IF I have any doubt request a test drive, but that I want to "be there" when they start the car. I don't think i'll need a test drive if the "T" connector is there and i can "assume" the original design is back.. Heck, even the post above says they have returned to that design.. That is probably why those who purchased the "later' 08s are not complaining..

[mbeardsley]

Yes, it's already been established (on multiple threads) that later '08 builds have the vacuum pump.

Presumably, the '09s will have it as well...

[eddf]

Wish I knew what to look for when I got my "new" 08 last week that was actually built in Oct 07.

Anyway, this sure explains why the sales guy insisted on being the one to drive the car initially, and be the one to pull it out when I was ready to take it home.

He also turned the radio way up to mask the fuel pump ticking.

Tricky.

Ed

[r08]

Here is the #800-553-6000 #3 to call Saturn and tell them what you think of there brakes. I've talked to them the last two days.

[TINOONIT]

I'm With Bogie!

Keep Us Posted Bogie, You're A Great Help To Us All.

[JeffInDFW]

I am floored. So, the NHTSA forces GM to recall MILLIONS of cars because the seat belt chime was 1 second too short (a few years ago), but something like this does not warrant any further action!?!?!? Good Lord.

[Sky_Pilot]

Originally Posted by blzcrzr

Received a letter from Saturn today They will fix the brake warmup problem.
TSB-07-05-25-007B.

Well, crap, that's nothing new, the 007A version is a recall for the manual and the 007B version is for the auto trans or vice versa. Had it done to mine and it's still phuqued up.

See!

[ChgoBlues]

Originally Posted by blzcrzr

Received a letter from Saturn today They will fix the brake warmup problem.
TSB-07-05-25-007B.

I have yet to receive my letter. Mine was one of the first off the line for 2008.

[Wolfheart]

I received my letter from GM about 3 weeks ago, had the "upgrade" done last week for no cost, just take the letter to the Dealer. Previously I let my RL warm up in my garage until the RPMs dropped to normal, this was due to the minimal stopping power of the brakes at immediate start up and moving. The problem now seems to be solved, I started the car and immediately out it in reverse, the brakes were MUCH more effective and felt like normal.

[smjp]

I had my brakes serviced this past thursday, and do not see an improvement.

[08Redline]

Had the dealer fix my 08 Redline...much better....thought I'd go through the back of the garage some days

[Clark90]

My 08 RL goes in for the break recall on Wednesday the 16th of July. They told me it was simply a "computer up grade" to fix the breaks. Said it will take less than 1 hour to fix. I will relay my findings to the forum on Thursday the 17th.

[Clark90]

[quote=Clark90;338194]My 08 RL goes in for the break recall on Wednesday the 16th of July. They told me it was simply a "computer up grade" to fix the breaks. Said it will take less than 1 hour to fix. I will relay my findings to the forum on Thursday the 17th.[/QUOTE

Breaks fixed ! The computer up grade worked fine and even on the cool mornings at start up the breaks work fine. Geez, they finally did something right

[HotRedLine]

Brought my RL in today, they fixed my brakes and washed the car in under an hour. MUCH better! I've had more than a few close calls backing out of my steep driveway! My dealership didn't even need the details; I called and said I got a notice in the mail, and the service guy said "You drive an 08 Sky?" and that was that. Fast, easy, free, and VERY worth it!
I hope you all have the same outcome

[SKY Spy]

I just took delivery of my 2nd SKY, an 08' RedLine and my brakes are 100% the same as my 07'. No issues at all...

I'm very glad this is the case...

BA...