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Old 01-24-2013, 12:05 PM   #76 (permalink)
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2 big facts that prove my point:

1)up to 15% more drive-train loss to the wheels in a kappa vs. a cobalt. I wonder which car with the same HP at crank will be faster... HMMM... cobalt is faster

2)Kappa = FE3 suspension, no roof. vs. Cobalt= FE5 suspension, roof.... cobalt handles better.

kappa wins RWD vs. fail wheel drive. Girls drop pants for dat kappa.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:20 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naus View Post
...kappa wins RWD vs. fail wheel drive. Girls drop pants for dat kappa.
Now thats just a bold face lie.

Only 55yr old guys do that.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:25 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elff View Post
It's my opinion that your statement about Fact is opinion.
Now that's a FACT - in my opinion.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:37 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naus View Post
2 big facts that prove my point:


2)Kappa = FE3 suspension, no roof. vs. Cobalt= FE5 suspension, roof....
If you use statements like this
On Paper the Lotus Elise destroys the Kappa
Same goes for all the other cars in the SCCA T2 class that the Solstice competed against.

So why then,
even though the listing of the individual parts were inferior on the kappa,
Did the Kappa win 3 years in a row?

The listing of individual components does not necessarily translate to what occurs with the entire package.

The cobalt is a faster 1/4 mile car. There are time slips to prove this. I will not argue that.

The Kappa is a better track and AutoX car

Here are the results from the 2012 AutoX Nationals
The Kappa's are 5-8 seconds faster than the SC/TC Cobalts

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...%20Results.pdf

If you have any track, road or autox results to back up your opinion, I would like to see them.
Until then, I will stick to my opinion [Using some facts] that the Kappa is a better handling car
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:45 PM   #80 (permalink)
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That link doesn't work

I know motor-trend took a bone stock Cobalt LNF around the nurburgring in 8:22, set the FWD record at the time. About .75 seconds slower than an BMW M3.

Due to drivetrain loss the cobalt is faster. in stock vs stock form, the cobalt handles better due the car having a freaking roof. When you lift one axle of a cobalt, the entire side lifts. Sure you can make a kappa stiff, but LNF cobalts come stiff from the factory. Done correctly, the kappa platform will beat a delta any day of the week autox track etc. However the cobalt also has NLS which is a win button in any straightaway.

IF the sky was a coupe this wouldn't even be an argument, but in stock form it's a noodle.

2009 Cobalt SS Sedan
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.5 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.3 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.4 sec
Street start, 560 mph: 6.0 sec
Standing -mile: 14.2 sec @ 102 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 156 mph
Braking, 700 mph: 163 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.92 g

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-2?redirect=no

2007 Saturn SKY Redline
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.7 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 37.4 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.9 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.0 sec @ 98 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 141 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 168 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g
Note: Said the transmission was a 5 speed automatic (might be why it doesn't come with NLS).

Thought this was interesting, the Cobalt gets its torque quicker. Hmmm...
'09 SS
ENGINE TYPE: turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 16-valve inline-4, aluminum block and head, direct fuel injection
Displacement: 122 cu in, 1998cc
Power (SAE net): 260 bhp @ 5300 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 260 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm

'07 Redline
ENGINE TYPE: turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 16-valve inline-4, aluminum block and head, direct fuel injection
Displacement: 122 cu in, 1998cc
Power (SAE net): 260 bhp @ 5300 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 260 lb-ft @ 2500 rpm
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:02 PM   #81 (permalink)
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That's alot of information that I am not disputing due to the fact that in my post prior to yours,
I stated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elff View Post
The cobalt is a faster 1/4 mile car. There are time slips to prove this. I will not argue that.
So thank you for providing a page worth of more information, on the part we agree on.


Moving on to the handling using the track argument.

The BMW M3 was in the SCCA T2 class the 3 years the Kappa won

[So were other cars with Roofs that lost to the convertible]

On the kappa, due to the car being designed as a convertable, vs a sedan that was later turned into a covertible, it's not the achilles heal you are making it out to be.

So using your Fact
BMW > Cobalt [By .75 of a second]

Then using the SCCA T2 Fact
Kappa > BMW [3 years in a row]

Lets combine the above
Kappa > BMW > Cobalt

And eliminate the middle man
Kappa > Cobalt
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:12 PM   #82 (permalink)
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read the part where i said this.

Quote:
Done correctly, the kappa platform will beat a delta any day of the week autox track etc.
everything i've stated is stock to stock.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:17 PM   #83 (permalink)
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I did and so are all of my points.

The only non stock items in T2 are Diff cooling and radiator changes
Neither of which modify the speed of the engine, or the handling of the car.
Both are to mitigate the heat.

In Autox, the results I posted are also from the stock classes.
and curiously enough, the non turbo kappas put down better times than the SC/TC cobalts
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:20 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Glad we agree! I guess Auto X is a different beast. RWD and FWD aren't in the same class for a reason
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:22 PM   #85 (permalink)
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the Kappas get put with the AWD which isn't an issue in the dry, but becomes a big disadvantage in the wet

This is why they have the PAX to try and balance and equate the scores.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:19 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Dang lots of info here! Ok but the thing is also I'm not really comparing stock to stock because of the fact that mine will be far from stock. I'm putting a race motor in the sky and ire I completely understand the fact that there will be more drive train loss. However a pro to that is the fwd bs rwd. I will not be on stock 245 tires and stock rims. I will be using a forgestar rim with preferably a 295-305 tire on the back. Also will be putting in the backbone brace and a new coil over suspension. How would this not grip up better than fwd? The whole point to get this car is the fact that it looks a little older and mature(looks badass) also it has a rwd setup which may take more drivetrain loss, but has better traction and ALOT more room under the hood to make some good numbers! This will not be my daily driver but my fun weekend/ race car. So BIG power numbers will be expected. I am also aware that there different transmissions and rear differential ratios available for this car. When making a powerful car money will be put into it so even though I've read that the gears in the stock transmission are kinda short, it's not something that cannot be changed.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:30 AM   #87 (permalink)
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To me

Everything you typed makes sense. I run 275s in the rear and have very good traction at the HP I am currently at, although, I can spin tires whenever I want.
I have the backbone, Probeam and for now, ZOK springs on FE3 shocks.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:40 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Ya and that's what I'm saying^^ haha you have good traction and with the stock short gears? If you have traction with those, then you should have even more with longer gears. Just also have to have the suspension mods to complement the tires and grip.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:47 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Upon further review. The build you're talking about will be absolutely bad-ass. 15 yard penalty on the Naus, automatic first down.

You can always fill the trunk with sand for traction.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:31 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Lol^^^ ya cement bags or something? Haha. Nah I'm just wanting to be big with a sky. I absolutely love the look of it and actually like to drive it! I should be getting a 2.1 girdled block here pretty soon with the 88mm pistons and then a race lnf manifold. I want to make huge power with the sky but keep it a ecotec lnf and not a v8 swap even though I think the swaps are badass!
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