CAI-plastic is better?

[Habbro]

I must apologize ahead of time for another cai thread but I read this the other day on gmroadster.com:

Plastic is a preferable material for aftermarket intakes as well, but you will notice that not many companies use plastic, and instead opt for metal and rubber components. There are many reasons why plastic is preferable, the most prevalent in regards to performance is how they do or don’t retain engine heat. Plastic has much less of a tendency to retain heat from the engine compartment, and is less susceptible to “heat soak”.

Based on this info I was trying to find a "plastic" cai. Any recs from others about this and manufacturers? Thanks for the advice. CH

[shabby]

There aren't any plastic intakes for our cars, just steel/aluminum ones. I'm sure the investment to get one molded isn't worth it in the end for a low volume car.

[RickyD]

for 50.00 bucks you can do this unless you sit for like ten minutes it runs about 20 degrees cooler then under the hood temps

[G8TR]

Or you can stick with the stock air box, which from everything that I've read gives just as much air flow to the engine and is just as efficient.Just doesn't have the look or the sound of a CAI.

[GM Roadster Club]

Originally Posted by Habbro

I must apologize ahead of time for another cai thread but I read this the other day on gmroadster.com:

Plastic is a preferable material for aftermarket intakes as well, but you will notice that not many companies use plastic, and instead opt for metal and rubber components. There are many reasons why plastic is preferable, the most prevalent in regards to performance is how they do or don’t retain engine heat. Plastic has much less of a tendency to retain heat from the engine compartment, and is less susceptible to “heat soak”.

Based on this info I was trying to find a "plastic" cai. Any recs from others about this and manufacturers? Thanks for the advice. CH

Which article did you read this on?

Thanks,

Martin

[GM Roadster Club]

Originally Posted by G8TR

Or you can stick with the stock air box, which from everything that I've read gives just as much air flow to the engine and is just as efficient.Just doesn't have the look or the sound of a CAI.

This is true for the LNF Turbo's, we have seen little to no gains from cars that have aftermarket Intakes as opposed to cars that are still running the Stock Airbox.

In fact our strongest LNF Tuned car which Dyno'ed in at 292 Wheel HP still had the Stock Air-box with only a K&N Drop in Filter.

The 2.4L's on the other hand do benefit from a CAI.

Thanks,

Martin

[Habbro]

Originally Posted by GM Roadster Club

Which article did you read this on?

Thanks,

Martin

Here is the link to the article:

http://www.gmroadster.com/index.php?...d=109&Itemid=1

If it didn't come through right it is on the home page at the bottom. Very good article. Thanks again for the replies. I like the insulation addition but may stick with the stock box with K/N drop in.

Anyone used the GMPP CAI?? Does anyone know the part #. I have had a little difficulty finding it online.

thanks again CH

[BigSkyCountry]

I'm no rocket scientist, but wouldn't any air leave the turbo on the way to the intercooler the same temperature regardless what the ambient temperature or intake system are? Aren't those primary compressor vanes like 1000 degrees or something?

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by GM Roadster Club

This is true for the LNF Turbo's, we have seen little to no gains from cars that have aftermarket Intakes as opposed to cars that are still running the Stock Airbox.

In fact our strongest LNF Tuned car which Dyno'ed in at 292 Wheel HP still had the Stock Air-box with only a K&N Drop in Filter.

The 2.4L's on the other hand do benefit from a CAI.

Thanks,

Martin

Is the lack of gain because the "nanny program" is compensating, or some other reason? When tunes are installed they must be defeating the "nanny", so the CAI may have some benefit. I am getting ready to change from SCCA Solo stock to Street Prepared and a tune is item one, CAI #2, rear frame brace #3, I/C #4, and then I will attack the suspension by swapping the Konis for D/As withcoil over setup. I want to hear the turbo popping and farting!!!!!

[stealthsky]

here is a link to the gmpp intake

GM Parts Direct: Your direct source for Genuine GM Parts

[jus2shy]

Originally Posted by BigSkyCountry

I'm no rocket scientist, but wouldn't any air leave the turbo on the way to the intercooler the same temperature regardless what the ambient temperature or intake system are? Aren't those primary compressor vanes like 1000 degrees or something?

Adiabatic compression will only increase the temperature by a certain ratio (depending on how many PSI the air is being compressed to in a very short amount of time). So if Redline A is taking in air at 70 degrees and Redline B is takin air at 50 degrees, Redline B's air charge will still be 20 degrees cooler after adiabatic compression by the Turbo. In the end, the charge is a little cooler in redline B. But to be truthful, our intake is already in a good location, and the plastics do reject heat pretty well. So a cold air intake on the LNF doesn't really offer a cooler intake charge, and the turbo is doing the breathing for us so the intake restriction isn't too big of a deal. Now if we were collapsing the hose due to the enormous vacuum of a bigger turbo, then we may opt for a lower restriction intake.

[Midcoregeek]

Isn't it true that the reason the RL's don't benefit from CAI's is due to the bad airflow within the engine box.

There are no vents in the front or top for airflow, just the two inputs down near the fog lamps. That should be why the K & N drop in or modifying the airbox has been shown to do better.


Wondering if anyone has taking the blocks out of the grill, the hood vents, rerouted the lower intakes, and see if the CAI would actually have a benefit.

[shabby]

Originally Posted by snaponbob

Is the lack of gain because the "nanny program" is compensating, or some other reason?

Thats exactly the reason why every bolt on doesnt gain any hp, the ecm has a strict rules of airflow numbers it wants to see and it adjust boost accordingly to get it. Once you improve the efficiency of the engine(intake/exhaust/cat/intercooler/whatever) the ecm simply lowers the boost to get the same airflow numbers as before.
If you have a stock and modded kappa on the dyno and both have the same tune the modded car will be running less boost to hit the same numbers as the stock one.

Take a look at any other turbocharged car, every little mod that you do you get a gain in hp because it improves the efficiency of the engine, the ecm see's more airflow so it adds more fuel unlike our ecm.

Originally Posted by Midcoregeek

Isn't it true that the reason the RL's don't benefit from CAI's is due to the bad airflow within the engine box.

No, see above.

[GM Roadster Club]

Originally Posted by snaponbob

Is the lack of gain because the "nanny program" is compensating, or some other reason? When tunes are installed they must be defeating the "nanny", so the CAI may have some benefit. I am getting ready to change from SCCA Solo stock to Street Prepared and a tune is item one, CAI #2, rear frame brace #3, I/C #4, and then I will attack the suspension by swapping the Konis for D/As withcoil over setup. I want to hear the turbo popping and farting!!!!!

No, we believe it's because the Stock Inter cooler on the Redline /GXP is 98% Efficient and since you are raising the air temperatures via the turbo anyways CAI's don't really have that big of an impact on Forced Induction Motors.

Now on N/A cars where there is no Turbo to heat the Incoming air you see better gains by using a CAI.

Martin

[shabby]

The stock intercooler is far from 98% efficient, i've seen iat2's climb 30-40 degrees over ambient temps with the stock intercooler. Plus its small size makes it heat soak during racing at a far greater rate compared to intercoolers 2-3x its size.

Since there really isnt any place where cold air can enter our cars the cai's only job is to remove the restrictiveness of the stock airbox/baffles/filter which Westers tested on Dejon's cai and it flowed a lot more. If we wouldnt have such a nanny ecm we would be seeing gains on every mod we add.

[kennysabarese]

Originally Posted by Midcoregeek

Isn't it true that the reason the RL's don't benefit from CAI's is due to the bad airflow within the engine box.

There are no vents in the front or top for airflow, just the two inputs down near the fog lamps. That should be why the K & N drop in or modifying the airbox has been shown to do better.


Wondering if anyone has taking the blocks out of the grill, the hood vents, rerouted the lower intakes, and see if the CAI would actually have a benefit.

Those air intakes are for the brakes, not the engine, on the RedLine.

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by Midcoregeek

Isn't it true that the reason the RL's don't benefit from CAI's is due to the bad airflow within the engine box.

There are no vents in the front or top for airflow, just the two inputs down near the fog lamps. That should be why the K & N drop in or modifying the airbox has been shown to do better.

Wondering if anyone has taking the blocks out of the grill, the hood vents, rerouted the lower intakes, and see if the CAI would actually have a benefit.

To be really blunt about this, beside being a "red herring" issue, the term Col Air Intake is false. That said, let me expand a bit --

If someone wants to see a real CAI, look at what goes on under the hood of some bigger vehicles that have some room to route air. What most easily seen is the CAI's one often seen on hot rodded diesel pick ups. We'll see the stock air filter and plumbing removed, the ubiquitous tube from the MAS/SDS extending to where the air filter will be. Around the filter will be a large box that shrouds/partitions/insulates the filter from the engine compartment air. This box will air directed to it from somewhere under the hood. This sort of architecture can be seen on completely stock cars (Corvette) where there is a wide flat duct extending from the air box OVER the radiator forward to where cool air can be pulled from under the leading edge of the hood. Even my 97 Chevy Express Van has this arrangement. The Kappas pull air from underneath the car in a pressurized area. THERE IS NO "GRILL" IN A KAPPA. I am no aerodynamisist, but I can imaging issues if the area behind the Sky cross bar, or the Solstice electric shaver grids (sorry, couldn't help myself!!), were opened up. RPI has cone some cutting and and whacking to install multiple tubes in the bottom of the stock air boxes that route air from the front of the car. (I would do this but it seems that the SCCA doesn't allow this in Street Prepared.) What the "CAI" SHOULD do is lower the restrictions to air flow. Absent a "tune", and given that the 2.4 does NOT have a "nanny" program while the 2.0 DOES, and the "tunes" apparently disable the "nanny" in the 2.0 what is called a CAI should help maximize airflow. The air will be come from exactly the same area that is currently being used by the stock air intake. With a stock I/C there may be no real gain, but with a tune, I/C, high flow cat or down pipe, and low restriction exhaust there may be some help. What the CAI in a 2.0 WILL do is let people hear all the popping, wheezing, and farting that is going on under the hood. That might be fun, or it might get irritating depending on personal preferences. It really ISN'T a CAI, it IS a DIFFERENT air intake.

One real goal in prepping a car for Solo is what is called "adding lightness".
OZ wheels and Hoosier A6 tires "add" lightness of about 12-15 pounds per corner. A Solo Performance single pipe straight 3" exhaust is good for some more lightness. (At the 2007 SCCA Solo Nationals my Redline scaled 2995 pounds WITH a Curt hitch.) A CAI will "add" about 10 pounds of lightness while eliminating any guess work about air restrictions.

So, I will now hide behind some furniture and wait for the rebuttals!!!!

p.s. Those "air intakes" for the front brakes are almost laughable!!! Nearly as big a joke as the tunnel cup holder. GM should have skipped the brake ducts and spent the money on the tunnel!!!!!

[Baldturbofreak]

It's not really so much a "Nanny" as it is the way the PCm thinks. It's based of requested AIRMASS. So if your intake does a nicer job getting air into the motor and does so with less heat, It will recieve the same AIRMASS at a lower boost pressure.

[mechanic]

but doesn't air not flow as well with the plastic intakes? most metal intakes are polished right?