Cooling mods

[1badss/sc]

Has anyone considered a dual pass modification and cams?? I dont know if those types of mods are out for the car yet, but i do know that if you decraese the temps, and increase the speed the air can travel in/out of the engine, you can REALLY increase HP without making tons of boost. Im thinkin it would be safer on the engine, and much more efficient. Has anyone considered doing this stuff? Maybe heads, cams, pistons?

I know with the LSJ, you can make 300+ HP running a 3" pulley ( about 15 psi ), and engine support mods.

Without the engine support mods, you need to run a 2.5" pulley ( aka 23+ psi ), TONS of cooling mods, and bigger fuel injectors to see the 300+ HP range. Not to mention, cylider #4 normally takes a dump shortly thereafter.

soo, heres my point:

beefier engine + 3" pulley = 300HP @ ~15psi << LOW HEAT
vs
restrictive engine + 2.5" pulley = 300HP @ ~23psi <<HIGH HEAT

I know this is for the SS/SC, but the LNF should still be applicable.

[Nova-Exarch]

There is a supercharger kit for it. Seal9 has one.

I've read the company that makes it is planning more versions/mods for it but I can't remember if they mentioned pulley sizes, just that they said they wanted to ease into it... I mean not offer up engine blowing products right off the bat.

edit: Here's the thread: Supercharger info

I was really considering the SC route but I opted for the time management ease of the Redline

[GhostRL]

Originally Posted by 1badss/sc

Has anyone considered a dual pass modification and cams?? I dont know if those types of mods are out for the car yet, but i do know that if you decraese the temps, and increase the speed the air can travel in/out of the engine, you can REALLY increase HP without making tons of boost. Im thinkin it would be safer on the engine, and much more efficient. Has anyone considered doing this stuff? Maybe heads, cams, pistons?

I know with the LSJ, you can make 300+ HP running a 3" pulley ( about 15 psi ), and engine support mods.

Without the engine support mods, you need to run a 2.5" pulley ( aka 23+ psi ), TONS of cooling mods, and bigger fuel injectors to see the 300+ HP range. Not to mention, cylider #4 normally takes a dump shortly thereafter.

soo, heres my point:

beefier engine + 3" pulley = 300HP @ ~15psi << LOW HEAT
vs
restrictive engine + 2.5" pulley = 300HP @ ~23psi <<HIGH HEAT

I know this is for the SS/SC, but the LNF should still be applicable.

Little to none of that applies, go back to the cobalt boards. There is no water/air heat exchanger for the intake system. It's turbocharged with an air to air intercooler. There is no coolant like in the lsj's system. There are also no distribution problems like the lsj's fuel system, due to direct injection and the design of the mechanical fuel block and pump assembly. Nobody makes cams for this motor, and there would be little to no advantage to that, because of the excellent variable valve timing system that is already in place (LNF cams are substantially more aggressive then LSJ cams, as well)

[1badss/sc]

Originally Posted by Spinner

Little to none of that applies, go back to the cobalt boards. There is no water/air heat exchanger for the intake system. It's turbocharged with an air to air intercooler. There is no coolant like in the lsj's system. There are also no distribution problems like the lsj's fuel system, due to direct injection and the design of the mechanical fuel block and pump assembly. Nobody makes cams for this motor, and there would be little to no advantage to that, because of the excellent variable valve timing system that is already in place (LNF cams are substantially more aggressive then LSJ cams, as well)

theres no coolant?? O wow. Maybe I will go back to the cobalt forums with an idiotic statement like that. So how does the RL cool itself?? Magically? Is it a magicmobile that cools itself by sheer will? Hmm, last I checked, cars were cooled with coolant, thus if u have a coolant leak, your engine can, o yea, overheat. Isnt there a COOLANT TEMP guage on the car??

And btw, I brought up cylinder #4 to make a point. 42.5 lb/hr injectors are more than enought to put you past 300 HP, you dont need to get bigger fuel injectors, an WAY undersized pulley for the SC ( its efficiency range is compromised past 2.9" ), and cooling mods to make that power.

Since you completely missed my point, Ill re-state it just for you:

more power lies in the engine, NOT BOOSTING THE HELL out of the TINY turbo the sky redlines have. Its the same concept with the SS/SC.

now, if you want to answer my original question: heads, cams, pistons, etc. Does the sky redline have this aftermarket support? If so, maybe everyone should be considering this route, instead of complaining about how the BSR tune makes the turbo boost past 23 psi, and how it makes the turbo cut out ( or possible bog down? ).

Do you REALLY wanna see what your stock components can handle by boosting the hell out of your turbo? Or would u rather make the engine stronger? Youre just like most the guys on the SS/SC forums, lets boost the hell outta it, make it REALLY hot, and then wonder why something breaks.

Maybe you should go to the cobalt forums. Youd fit right in.

[1badss/sc]

Originally Posted by Nova-Exarch

There is a supercharger kit for it. Seal9 has one.

I've read the company that makes it is planning more versions/mods for it but I can't remember if they mentioned pulley sizes, just that they said they wanted to ease into it... I mean not offer up engine blowing products right off the bat.

edit: Here's the thread: Supercharger info

I was really considering the SC route but I opted for the time management ease of the Redline

better idea. The LNF wont have as many issues as the 2.4l in terms of modifying. Besides that, its more fun outta the box!

[shabby]

Im sure spinner meant to say theres no dual pass coolant mod on the gxp like you guys have.

Theres no heads/cams or pistons for our cars yet. The cams would need to have a 3 lobe gear to drive the fuel pump(or maybe 4 lobe for higher pressure), the pistons would need to be designed to tumble the air/fuel mixture like the original pistons. These arent your normal parts, these would need extensive r&d especially the pistons.
I know you're trying to help, but everything on the lnf is new and it'll take a while for the aftermarket to come up with internal components.
Easiest mod now would be a bigger turbo for higher hp.

[GhostRL]

Originally Posted by 1badss/sc

theres no coolant?? O wow. Maybe I will go back to the cobalt forums with an idiotic statement like that. So how does the RL cool itself?? Magically? Is it a magicmobile that cools itself by sheer will? Hmm, last I checked, cars were cooled with coolant, thus if u have a coolant leak, your engine can, o yea, overheat. Isnt there a COOLANT TEMP guage on the car??

And btw, I brought up cylinder #4 to make a point. 42.5 lb/hr injectors are more than enought to put you past 300 HP, you dont need to get bigger fuel injectors, an WAY undersized pulley for the SC ( its efficiency range is compromised past 2.9" ), and cooling mods to make that power.

Since you completely missed my point, Ill re-state it just for you:

more power lies in the engine, NOT BOOSTING THE HELL out of the TINY turbo the sky redlines have. Its the same concept with the SS/SC.

now, if you want to answer my original question: heads, cams, pistons, etc. Does the sky redline have this aftermarket support? If so, maybe everyone should be considering this route, instead of complaining about how the BSR tune makes the turbo boost past 23 psi, and how it makes the turbo cut out ( or possible bog down? ).

Do you REALLY wanna see what your stock components can handle by boosting the hell out of your turbo? Or would u rather make the engine stronger? Youre just like most the guys on the SS/SC forums, lets boost the hell outta it, make it REALLY hot, and then wonder why something breaks.

Maybe you should go to the cobalt forums. Youd fit right in.

The LSJ uses coolant to cool the intake manifold. That coolant circulates through the heat exchanger because there is no other way to cool the intake charge. The LNF, does not. The intercooler cools the intake charge. Your argument is invalid as engine coolant temp has a negligible effect on power.

[1Man1Sky]

Originally Posted by 1badss/sc

theres no coolant?? O wow. Maybe I will go back to the cobalt forums with an idiotic statement like that. So how does the RL cool itself?? Magically? Is it a magicmobile that cools itself by sheer will? Hmm, last I checked, cars were cooled with coolant, thus if u have a coolant leak, your engine can, o yea, overheat. Isnt there a COOLANT TEMP guage on the car??

And btw, I brought up cylinder #4 to make a point. 42.5 lb/hr injectors are more than enought to put you past 300 HP, you dont need to get bigger fuel injectors, an WAY undersized pulley for the SC ( its efficiency range is compromised past 2.9" ), and cooling mods to make that power.

Since you completely missed my point, Ill re-state it just for you:

more power lies in the engine, NOT BOOSTING THE HELL out of the TINY turbo the sky redlines have. Its the same concept with the SS/SC.

now, if you want to answer my original question: heads, cams, pistons, etc. Does the sky redline have this aftermarket support? If so, maybe everyone should be considering this route, instead of complaining about how the BSR tune makes the turbo boost past 23 psi, and how it makes the turbo cut out ( or possible bog down? ).

Do you REALLY wanna see what your stock components can handle by boosting the hell out of your turbo? Or would u rather make the engine stronger? Youre just like most the guys on the SS/SC forums, lets boost the hell outta it, make it REALLY hot, and then wonder why something breaks.

Maybe you should go to the cobalt forums. Youd fit right in.

Wow! Why so hostile? Chill out. Spinner made no personal attack on you and was only contributng to the discussion, so why attack him? Geese, maybe get some anger management training.

[1badss/sc]

Originally Posted by 1Man1Sky

Wow! Why so hostile? Chill out. Spinner made no personal attack on you and was only contributng to the discussion, so why attack him? Geese, maybe get some anger management training.

i didnt appreciate the lude comment of: go back to the cobalt forums.

[1badss/sc]

Originally Posted by shabby

Im sure spinner meant to say theres no dual pass coolant mod on the gxp like you guys have.

Theres no heads/cams or pistons for our cars yet. The cams would need to have a 3 lobe gear to drive the fuel pump(or maybe 4 lobe for higher pressure), the pistons would need to be designed to tumble the air/fuel mixture like the original pistons. These arent your normal parts, these would need extensive r&d especially the pistons.
I know you're trying to help, but everything on the lnf is new and it'll take a while for the aftermarket to come up with internal components.
Easiest mod now would be a bigger turbo for higher hp.

thats understandable. Im looking into gettin a sky RL for next year, and i dont have as much knowledge on the LNF as i do the LSJ. I know what its like to not have a huge aftermarket.

Initially there wasnt even any GM support for the cobalts. I remember waiting almost a year just for the stage 1 and 2 kits to come out. Then a little longer for the stage 3 kit. I wish i could keep the cobalt, but I would much rather have the sky .

[Blue04RedLine]

Originally Posted by 1badss/sc

thats understandable. Im looking into gettin a sky RL for next year, and i dont have as much knowledge on the LNF as i do the LSJ. I know what its like to not have a huge aftermarket.

Initially there wasnt even any GM support for the cobalts. I remember waiting almost a year just for the stage 1 and 2 kits to come out. Then a little longer for the stage 3 kit. I wish i could keep the cobalt, but I would much rather have the sky .

Lol, only waited over a year? I have an 04 IRL, I waited over 2 and a half years for the stage kits, and even longer for HPT to release it's support. Also, don't crack on spinner. He's a former member of redlineforums as he used to have and Ion RL as well. He knows his **** too.

Also man, on the issue of the 42.5# injectors, boost doesn't matter. Airflow is all that matters. A certain injector will only get you to a certain HP level no matter how you get there, because it will deliver fuel based on airflow. So whether you're getting extra flow from a tiny pulley or from head work and increased compression, either way the injectors don't care, they're just gonna throw the fuel at the airflow they see. That's their job. I don't see the 42#'s getting much past 300whp, and would be leery even at that plateau.

[1badss/sc]

Originally Posted by Blue04RedLine

Lol, only waited over a year? I have an 04 IRL, I waited over 2 and a half years for the stage kits, and even longer for HPT to release it's support. Also, don't crack on spinner. He's a former member of redlineforums as he used to have and Ion RL as well. He knows his **** too.

Also man, on the issue of the 42.5# injectors, boost doesn't matter. Airflow is all that matters. A certain injector will only get you to a certain HP level no matter how you get there, because it will deliver fuel based on airflow. So whether you're getting extra flow from a tiny pulley or from head work and increased compression, either way the injectors don't care, they're just gonna throw the fuel at the airflow they see. That's their job. I don't see the 42#'s getting much past 300whp, and would be leery even at that plateau.

I was going based off of the LSJ build book, in which you can use to make a 300 HP LSJ. In the book, it uses the 42 lb/hr injectors that come with the stage 2 kit. Im comparing that build to running a 2.5" and 60 lb/hr injectors, which seem to almost always blow up #4.

[DugsGMs]

How exactly would you fit standard 42# injectors in a car w/ DI? Does anyone even know the maximum flow rate of the LNFs injector assemblies?

[Blue04RedLine]

Originally Posted by DugsGMs

How exactly would you fit standard 42# injectors in a car w/ DI? Does anyone even know the maximum flow rate of the LNFs injector assemblies?

I don't think he was planning on fitting our injectors into the LNF at all.

[1badss/sc]

Originally Posted by Blue04RedLine

I don't think he was planning on fitting our injectors into the LNF at all.

nope. The DI is more than enough to handle gobs of power without worrying about leaning out the engine.

[shabby]

Originally Posted by DugsGMs

Does anyone even know the maximum flow rate of the LNFs injector assemblies?

The fuel system is rated at 160lph maximum fuel flow.

[BlueSkyRL]

Originally Posted by shabby

The fuel system is rated at 160lph maximum fuel flow.

So that's 40 per cylinder????

[GhostRL]

GM rates the entire system at 160lph at 7000rpm. Where the actual bottleneck is, is as of yet unknown. I have a feeling the tank has a standard 155lph pump, which will be the first actual bottleneck in the system. Fuel lines/distribution block(rail) are sufficient to support as much hp as we should ever be able to make. I'm not sure at what point, however, that the cam driven pump itself wont be able to deliver the fuel. There's two real ways to test this, with a rig that can spin the pump driving camshaft over at 3500 rpm (remember the cam only rotates once per 2 rotations of the crank) while connected to the pump and somehow measure the pump's output, or by installing a high-flow pump in the engine's tank and adding air (big turbo) until the engine can no longer give any extra fuel (should show up on a wideband)

I, unfortunately, do not have the resources to do either, but in time the tuning capabilities that the aftermarket should acheive will allow generously sized turbos that will finally reveal the systems true limits. I'm pretty confident we'll see at least 450 on the stock pump due to the lean nature of the engine.