ECM question

[Kuroshi]

I was curious if the dealership could tell if you installed a separate ECM tuned if you swap the stock ECM back in? So they'd be looking at the car with the stock ECM installed. I was just curious since there's a lot of happy owners out there with BSR and Westers tune but of course there's the concern over warranty issues.

[sky 4 us]

I can't speak for sure about the sky, but I know that they could not tell with my avalanche that I've had done for years. I plan on doing my sky soon. One other thing is the fact that they change the internal vin number of the tuned ECM. The dealer could not tell, on my truck that it was not the original ECM. They could however could mess up a tune if the "put an update flash in it" the guy who does my tunes will reflash the ECM for free if they do that. He also gets all the latest updates from GM and put on it when I send it to him.

[Veno]

So is the idea here to buy a second ECM to send off to be tuned while using the stock one, and then swapping back and forth as required and/or desired?

If so, this sounds like what I might want to try. Not only for the warranty issue, but also because it would eliminate the downtime for the car while getting a flash.

Is there any issues that could arise from swapping often?

Would you have to install the new ECM to get it 'linked' up with the car before sending it off to the tuner?

Is there anything else I should know before trying this?

[cerberus]

Originally Posted by Veno

Is there anything else I should know before trying this?

Eh, I'll probably get this all wrong, but no doubt, somebody will fix me up. If you get a 2nd ECU you'll need to do a relearn on it (crank, or security). You'd need something like a Dashhawk to do it yourself, otherwise the dealer would have to do it.

[Veno]

Thanks Cerberus,

I plan on picking up a Dashhawk before I do anything else anyway, so at least I'll have it. Whether or not I can figure out how to use it for this purpose has yet to be determined. Hopefully it comes with some good instructions.

I'm basically a newbie to the whole modding thing, so you'll likely hear lots more questions from me in the future.

[cerberus]

No prob. When you get there, just post up. A few folks here have done the relearn with a Dashhawk, so I'm sure they'll jump in and help you. If I remember correctly, not too bad, but seal9 did post that he had to do it a few times to get it to take.


edit: Oops!!! Hold on. I've got 2.4's on the brain. I don't can't claim anything about the ECU's on the RL if that's the model you're going to swap. Don't know whether the procedure is the same and supported by DH or not. Ok, somebody, fix me up here,

[sky 4 us]

I did have to do a crank position relearn on the ecm for my avalanche. I took it to a shop not the dealer and for $40 they did it. I am not sure how much a dash hawk cost, but it is not the only way to do this. any repair shop with a obd2 computer that is able to erase codes I was told would do the job...like a snap-on or like unit that is up to date would work. I thought the $40 was the cheapest and easiest way to go.

[redhotchillipepper]

Originally Posted by cerberus

Eh, I'll probably get this all wrong, but no doubt, somebody will fix me up. If you get a 2nd ECU you'll need to do a relearn on it (crank, or security). You'd need something like a Dashhawk to do it yourself, otherwise the dealer would have to do it.

You can do that with a Dashhawk? I thought the Dashhawk was a read only device like Autotap.

If you can use it to change parameters in you ECM then it is well worth the money. I spent $400.00 on Autotap and it is only a troubleshooting tool, read only.

[cerberus]

You can't change parameters to the extent that you could with HPTuners, but you can clear codes and do crank relearns. Just not sure about support for the 2.0 ECUs and don't want to assume. I haven't really kept up. Think you can do a few other things. Something about fans rings a bell. It does a bit more than data log, and clearing DTCs along with it's other features sounds like gives it some fun uses. We need a DH owner to step up and get fill us in...

[Veno]

One of the GM vehicles only features of the Dashhawk is a Crank Angle Sensor Error(CASE) Relearn. According to this http://www.dashhawk.com/pdf/Dashhawk...t_Overview.pdf (pg. 16) it will allow you to "Reset this critical parameter after an ECU replacement,..."

I assume that's what we're refering to.

[redhotchillipepper]

Yep! That's what we are talking about. What a neat little tool.

[Cheers]

If you have a Redline there is no relearn with a new ECM. The Dashhawk will not figure it out. Put the fuses, put the ECM, replace the ECM, replace the fuses and do a security relearn and you should be good to go.

[redhotchillipepper]

Ok, here is my question now. I have a 2.4l automatic. I am about to buy the DDM Works stage 1 supercharger and I am thinking about just buying a new preflashed ECM from DDM for $350.00. When I put it in, do I have to go through the Passlock Relearn Procedure and the crankshaft relearn procedure? If so then if I send my ECM in to be flashed will I still have to perform those procedures?

[Cheers]

Originally Posted by redhotchillipepper

Ok, here is my question now. I have a 2.4l automatic. I am about to buy the DDM Works stage 1 supercharger and I am thinking about just buying a new preflashed ECM from DDM for $350.00. When I put it in, do I have to go through the Passlock Relearn Procedure and the crankshaft relearn procedure? If so then if I send my ECM in to be flashed will I still have to perform those procedures?

It is my understanding the 2.4 has to do a crank relearn, but the 2.0 doesn't an matter of different ECMs. I only have experience with the 2.0. Best bet is talk to DDM - great folks who know their stuff.

[SKYRCKET]

You must do a relearn for the 2.4, I just got a new ECM from Vector Motorsports for the 2.4 and to do it right it takes about 30mins to complete the whole process...

[rmarmion]

What is the relearn process that takes 30mins to complete for a new ECM for the 2.4.

[Jeff Donald]

This sounds like two different relearns are being discussed. The Security Relearn may take 20 or 30 minutes, but my dealer did the Crank Relearn in about 5 minutes.

[ceeker]

Originally Posted by rmarmion

What is the relearn process that takes 30mins to complete for a new ECM for the 2.4.

From what I have learned, you must do a crank relearn for the 2.4 ECM.
This requires a dashhawk or have a shop do it for you!

It resets the stock perameters of your new ECM to fit your car.

[Rob the Elder]

The real problem is if you have a catastrophic failure with your tuned ECM installed, then you have to pull it and replace it with the factory ECM. But now the factory ECM has had zero starts on it. When you get towed into the dealer and they download the history and diagnostics from your factory ECM, it has nothing to tell them. This may or may not set off warning flags.

I dont understand the scenario where you would change out the ECM unless or until you had a catastrophic failure of some sort and if you do you have the above challenge.

[cfjara]

I'm sure dealer wouldn't notice the ECM swap unless they were looking for it. Ultimately every part that goes into the car is scanned into a database on the manufacturing line. But i'm sure this is something the dealer is far removed from. I would think if Saturn corp was in litigation over a warranty issue, they could figure out by the serial number on the ECM that it was not the one the car was built with.

When you swap you ECM, the programmer needs to flash the new ECM with your VIN number. This keeps everything happy.

[rich71]

Has Anyone check out the Solsticeforum? It looks like GM has bocome aware of the Westers tune, the purpose for the second ecm. It looks like GM wants the vin number that the ecm is for. They are going to be paying closer attention to us now. That is what happens when they see new redline/gxp ecms being ordered for "warranteed" 2007's gxp/redlines that are NOT requested by the dealer i guess. Too bad we weren't able to "keep it in the family" a little longer. All of us that have mods take the chance of getting caught(hard to hide the bigger intercooler yah know), it just sucks that we get hurt because gm can't seem to make our cars what they can easily and safely be from the factory. Swing and a miss again for GM

[MidniteBlues]

Well if you think about it, you are making an unauthorized modification to the heart of the system, the engines running parameters from the creators. Re-programming or installing a 2nd ECM module, when you swap out an ECM, then suppose you have a catastrophic failure (ie: engine blows up). Lets say for what the 'reprogrammed' ECM did &/or was responsible for this failure, then you take the car in for warranty repairs with the original unit IS a form of fraud.. Warranty can, and will be refused IF they determined that the programming has been tampered with and/or if they have wised up and put blocking or a firewall protocol on the original OEM module or have integrated a area in memory on the said module where it cannot be modified and/or changed & has the original VIN hard burnt into it..AND made hacker proof....which BTW, is not that hard to do.. Its a chance modders take when they "modify" their cars. Some, then try to perpetrate a fraud on the car makers for 'free' repairs after they damaged their engines.. Those that think that these units cannot detect tampering I believe are in fantasy land.. I would bet they can tell it has been either tampered, and/or modified.. Thats why I have not done anything, many don't care and throw the warranty out the window, and will pay the price. I will not mod anything until at least the original 3yr/36k has at least lapsed, and would take my chances on the rest of it to 100K miles..or 5 years.. Thats if I even keep the car. Most trade ins want the car 100% original OEM, otherwise you might NOT get what its worth, esp if it imperils any remaining warranty period..