Intake/Cat back for Redline

[bcorg]

Hi to all !!! Just bought my 2008 Redline in February. Only had the top down once but I love this car!!! I have a question about the cold air intake and the Turbo cat-back exhaust listed as "2008 Accessories" in the Saturn Sky brochure. Has anyone had these Saturn endorsed accessories installed and were you happy with the results? (I did a search but couldn't find any discussion on the Saturn installed systems.) I talked to the dealer and they told me that as long as they are listed and endorsed by Saturn they shouldn't void my warrenty in any way. They also told me that just the cold air intake system alone makes the car sound totally different and adds about 16 horsepower. What would the estimated total increase in horsepower be with the intake and the cat-back?? I'm assuming that gas milage would increase, if anything, so I don't think that is an issue. Just wanted to see if anyone had the dealer add these options. Thanks in advance for any input you can provide.
Brett

[cerberus]

Welcome to the forum!!! Aw, man, I don't want to get into bench racing, but uh, +16 hp from a RL intake??? No. Not a lot to be gained from the cat-back either. I'd look at those with an towards getting the look and sound you want, taking whatever increase you get as gravy.

[willis]

I have the intake. It does make a big difference to the sound of the car. It gives a race sound to the car. As far as HP??? If it helps make more HP it cant be much more than 2 or 3 nothing you would ever feel for sure. I got mine for the looks. They are sharp looking under the hood.

[Im Fastr]

The dealership is right about only one thing they've told you, the CAI will make a different sound. But, unless you are merely looking for a particular sound I wouldn't waste any money on the CAI. There is a lot of discussion on the actual performance of the CAI's regarding whether they actually do anything. (many have said that due to the engine compartment's limited air circulation that most CAI's actually draw hotter air in than the stock box; thus reducing engine performance). Search for CAI on this forum and look for commentary by Eloy from RPI, he is one of the more knowledgeable people on here with regard to dyno testing on performance parts.

Regarding the cat back system. I recently acquired a Magnaflow 3" quad tip cat back exhaust from John at Magnaflow Exhaust Solutions-Hottexhaust.com. This is one great system and the HP gains are definately noticable. The engine/turbo breath much better with the 3" system and you'll be stunned by how pinched down your stock exhaust is at the bends. The sound is incredible, especially on a hard pull, and the back pressure makes for a nice burble when you let off the gas and the rpm's come down under 2500. I would HIGHLY recommend you call John and mention that you are a member of this forum... he'll hook you up with the best price in town, shipped right to your door.

You can also spend a little more and get a great SOLO exhaust, or go really big and get the RPI system which I hear is the bomb. I just couldn't justify dropping the extra $300-$400 for either of them.

Whatever you do... don't let the dealer talk you into spending huge bucks on things that won't get your true HP gains... If they are telling you that their CAI will get you 16 extra HP then you have to ask yourself, "what else are they lying to me about?".

Enjoy the RL and be prepared to answer a lot of questions about it at gas stations and just about anywhere you stop. Love the ride!!

[Rob the Elder]

I changed out the pipes for Dejon intercooler pipes and the CAI. I also have the Magnaflo.

My wifes Sky is stock. When you go from her car to mine you can tell the difference in mid-range is huge. It feels like its significantly faster. I suspect its not a heck of a lot of HP at the upper end, but the mid range is very much better with the freer flowing intake and exhaust.

the CAI lets the motor make intake noise. When you put your foot into it, you can hear a little more intake noise, but when you back off to shift you can hear a loud noise that is very obviously the pressure blowing off for the shift. Once you get used to it its fun, but it is pretty loud.

[bcorg]

Thanks for all the input guys!! Yeah...16 extra horses did sound a little too good to be true for that price. How about a K&N filter instead of going with the GM CAI then? I know it made a big difference on my Mustang 5.0..seemed to increase performance and milage. I think I will go with the cat-back for sure though. I'm looking at the GM offering so I won't void any warrenty. I'm assuming that the GM system is made by one of the aftermarket manufacturers anyway? Thanks again for the help!!!

[JohnD]

Originally Posted by bcorg

Thanks for all the input guys!! Yeah...16 extra horses did sound a little too good to be true for that price. How about a K&N filter instead of going with the GM CAI then? I know it made a big difference on my Mustang 5.0..seemed to increase performance and milage. I think I will go with the cat-back for sure though. I'm looking at the GM offering so I won't void any warrenty. I'm assuming that the GM system is made by one of the aftermarket manufacturers anyway? Thanks again for the help!!!

That's a fine strategy, but just for the record - going with a third-party CAI or third-party cat-back will not void the warranty either...

[|V3nom|]

Originally Posted by JohnD

That's a fine strategy, but just for the record - going with a third-party CAI or third-party cat-back will not void the warranty either...

depends on how anal your dealership is, most wont but im sure there are some that will.

[hotcofee]

Originally Posted by bcorg

Thanks for all the input guys!! Yeah...16 extra horses did sound a little too good to be true for that price. How about a K&N filter instead of going with the GM CAI then? I know it made a big difference on my Mustang 5.0..seemed to increase performance and milage. I think I will go with the cat-back for sure though. I'm looking at the GM offering so I won't void any warrenty. I'm assuming that the GM system is made by one of the aftermarket manufacturers anyway? Thanks again for the help!!!

factory/dealership parts isn't your only choice as most dealerships would have you believe. aftermarket parts will not void warranty unless it has to something to do with the part that is damaged directly. For instance, the dealership cannot void the warranty for the drivetrain if you have a CAI installed because there is no direct corellation between the two. Now if they chose to void the warranty then they'll have to provide documentation showing why. The Magnusson Moss protects us.

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[William.coates@wcrm.]

From what i have read and discussed the air box can be modified to help but the after market intake system does not gain anything. When you look at the area that the air has to inter the system it is very restricted. It has to draw from all the open area around it and none has a straight open entry. I am going to look at the blocked solid area that is behind the small grill under the chrome bar which holds the Sky emblam. That area is solid but if air could enter and water be directed away there could be some help.
I have the RPi IC, Down Pipe, and exhaust system and they did help. IC made the car naturally work better at lower RPM but the biggest difference for the IC was mid range up. Then added the down pipe and exhaust and fount the turbo comes in a lot faster since the turbo can spool faster. Only down side so far is exhaust resonating sound at 70 MPH. Worse with top up naturally but only because of the white noise is masking the sound by the way of more air noise. Very happy with performance gain and was told by Eloy they saw nothing really out of after market intake on dyno.

i recently, like last week end went with all my Porsche buddies on a road trip through West Texas. There were 3 new turbos and one old turbo, 3 Boxsters and a BMW roadster. The SKy would pull away from the Boxsters and BMW and on initial burst pull from the large turbos but they would come back when on power to pull away easily but they should with 150 more HP and we had straight runs of over 30 mile with no turns in some places. In the turns and hills the Sky was right on their tails. my Sky is a automatic and the 5 speeds or 6 made no difference on stop and go and in some ways i pulled on them while they were shifting. Top speed with top down i reached was 145 MPH and it was still pulling with even the high drag of top down using GPS to check speeds. Top up with mods the car could reach 155 or 160 and depending on how close to the car in front for draft may be more.

I just have to do something about the reasonating sound at 70 when i am not pushing and want to just ride and listen to music on a trip. I hope that if i wrap the pipe and look at some support on the system the resonating sound will decrease. These is nothing on the aftermarket system to lock the exhaust from the turbo to the back of the car where it reached the rubber holders to the exhaust. This is a lot of free pipe to set up resonating viberations that can bring on resonating issues. I will let all know afterwards if the wrap helps.

[|V3nom|]

Originally Posted by William.coates@wcrm.

From what i have read and discussed the air box can be modified to help but the after market intake system does not gain anything. When you look at the area that the air has to inter the system it is very restricted. It has to draw from all the open area around it and none has a straight open entry. I am going to look at the blocked solid area that is behind the small grill under the chrome bar which holds the Sky emblam. That area is solid but if air could enter and water be directed away there could be some help.
I have the RPi IC, Down Pipe, and exhaust system and they did help. IC made the car naturally work better at lower RPM but the biggest difference for the IC was mid range up. Then added the down pipe and exhaust and fount the turbo comes in a lot faster since the turbo can spool faster. Only down side so far is exhaust resonating sound at 70 MPH. Worse with top up naturally but only because of the white noise is masking the sound by the way of more air noise. Very happy with performance gain and was told by Eloy they saw nothing really out of after market intake on dyno.

i recently, like last week end went with all my Porsche buddies on a road trip through West Texas. There were 3 new turbos and one old turbo, 3 Boxsters and a BMW roadster. The SKy would pull away from the Boxsters and BMW and on initial burst pull from the large turbos but they would come back when on power to pull away easily but they should with 150 more HP and we had straight runs of over 30 mile with no turns in some places. In the turns and hills the Sky was right on their tails. my Sky is a automatic and the 5 speeds or 6 made no difference on stop and go and in some ways i pulled on them while they were shifting. Top speed with top down i reached was 145 MPH and it was still pulling with even the high drag of top down using GPS to check speeds. Top up with mods the car could reach 155 or 160 and depending on how close to the car in front for draft may be more.

I just have to do something about the reasonating sound at 70 when i am not pushing and want to just ride and listen to music on a trip. I hope that if i wrap the pipe and look at some support on the system the resonating sound will decrease. These is nothing on the aftermarket system to lock the exhaust from the turbo to the back of the car where it reached the rubber holders to the exhaust. This is a lot of free pipe to set up resonating viberations that can bring on resonating issues. I will let all know afterwards if the wrap helps.

woah! what a post lol, but some good info there. what kind of wrap can you use for the exhaust?

[snaponbob]

Been on this forum since June 2006. There has been SO much discussion about horsepower gains that it is nearly painful.

Personal experience; I have run my RL in autocross events for one and a half seasons. First I ran the stock exhaust, then the 3" dual Magnaflow, and now the straight single pipe 3" Solo Performance (no muffler) pipe. The latter two certainly feel better and sure as hell sound better. The straight exhaust has more "punch" (per my calibrated butt dyno) the the MF, and the MF has a bit more than the stock. The GM exhaust is way overpriced and offers no gains. The CAI is really a HAI (HOT air intake). Sounds neat, but locally people have seen (felt) no improvement with the intake and a LOSS in fuel mileage. Use the CAI money as a down payment on a bigger intercooler!!!

[William.coates@wcrm.]

Eloy at RPi and my son and I have had some additional discussions on the intake of air. I am going to send him the lower part of the air box so he can modify it for better air flow. I looked at the mod and it will help and his cost is about $150. We discussed the opening at the grill under the emblam and due to that area being in a low preasure area it may not help much and surley not as much as can be optained through the scooped air from the dam below the car. So i will go with the mod to the air dam to the lower part of the box.

For the question on wraps the best is to use DEI (not Dale Earnhart) for the wraps. Several suppliers are on Ebay and there are some kits so do a search for Exhaust wraps Kits and then look for high temp. They make a 2000 degree and some 1200 to 1300 but for the difference i ordered the 2000 degree kit which comes with 50 feet of wrap, several stainless bands, and a silicone spray that goes over the wrap to protect it and help seal. The down pipe will be taken off and wrapped and then see what it does on resonating sound before doing more. Also this does help in performance. Any time you can keep the air hot in the exhaust from the turbo the faster it will move through the system. Hot air moves faster than cool air plus temp with the wrap will be kept off the car better. it will help on resonating sound just how much i do not know but there is a big difference between weight and thickness of the factory exhaust / DP and after market stainless and that thin wall of the after market is why resonating is more pronounced. With Eloys help we will get this down.

[William.coates@wcrm.]

I have not been a member of this forum long but I agree with you on data you hear. I will tell you that based on my back ground of 30 to 40 years of running in NHRA from C/ED Dragsters, A/ED dragsters, A FX (Factory Experimental), and the last 10 of my career with Blown Alcohol Dragsters you really need to match any all changes to engine mods. In most cases I try to stay with the same person from intake to exhaust since most do test that complete set up. The good supplier like RPi do also see other suppliers products on cars and have done some dyno work.

Beware of the Dyno Queen that does like to go to dyno's that read higher and brag about numbers. Dyno Queens like to look at each others cars and quote the numbers. I like to know about what % change i will get but more important to me is how it feels on the street and on tours. My group drives normal on the street but when we get on the tours it is not for the person that wants to look at the sights and smell the roses. You will not have time to do a flower tour, we go for the drive. So i judge how it feels and compares to my porsche and my buddies cars which are mostly Turbo Porsche, Boxsters, BMW's and Cayman S. All these cars perform strong and can run the road and because of the handling can really out perform and higher out put cars of lessor road manners.

Then consider in most cases it is not the car but the driver. I can take a lesser hp car and pull away from a lot of drivers but that is from 50 years of driving since i was 12. The people that should really pay more attention to mods are the ones that do not have a turbo car since over lap of cams come into play and back preasure and air flow changes are more important for desired performance. Blown motors and Turbos are a different story and cams are different. So gather a lot of information but besure to check out the source, becareful of data from other drivers and that includes me. not all cars preform the same, and react the same to changes even though they are closer with computers working the adaptions. There is a reason that the manufactor guardbans the setings and makes sure full open throttle is set richer than just off the floor.

My son has a lot of experience with Turbos since he ran a EVo for several years with some profound Hp. Numbers that would amaze the novice that can come from a 4 cylinder engine. We are glad to respond to any that want to ask and if you can not get to us on the forum you can email direct. we will post those good questions and responses on this form. William.coates@wcrm.org

[08SkyLdr]

I'm fairly new to the form as well, but after reading this thread there is quite a bit of excellent information here. I have an '08 RL and opted to get the CAT Back exhaust installed by the dealer before I took delivery. Since the dealer exhaust is only a 2.5" Borla system, your best purchase for the money is the Magnaflow 3". If I had it to do over again, I'd get the Magnaflow and save a little green.

[William.coates@wcrm.]

As I mentioned I did wrap with the DEI 2000 degree wrap from the turbo out to the end of the muffler. I did the wet wrap which naturally took an extra day to dry before painting. I also purchased the stainless hose clamps from Home Depot because I used nearly 16 bands. I used one at the beginning of each wrap, end of wrap at joints, down pipe beginning and end, cat, and beginning and end of the 4 inch muffler. A lot of bands but even a hose clamp around a raw pipe can change the resonating. If we did not paint then I assume you could put the pipe back on after wrapping wet and let the exhaust heat dry it out, it just would not have the spray that would help in keeping oil or road oil from penetrating. The smell once fired while wet could be a lot stronger than the smell from the first heated pipe with the silicon spray. That took about two days to diminish.

The first goal was to get the car to the point that I could accelerate into the turbo in town with out gaining attention from local law enforcement. I like to feel the turbo pull with out a ticket and the system as is did draw unwanted attention.

The second goal was to get the resonating sound down so that I could run at 70 mph and listen to the radio or iPod when not driving hard.

The third, and most important to married life, was to tone it down so that my wife would not be on my case about the change in sound.

The wrap did help reduce the resonating sound to the point of nearly non factor. It also reduced the brass or tin tone from the exhaust to a lower throaty sound. It sounds a lot stronger being lower. At the same time we know that anytime you can keep the temperature up in the down pipe and exhaust that there is a HP gain by the simple fact that hot air moves faster than cool air so the exhaust gets out of the system faster therefore quicker turbo spin up. The wrap was a win-win.

I also located a company in Texas that makes an insert for exhaust to lower the decibels. The original ideal was for race headers so that they can be used on the street with out attracting the same unwanted attention of the law that I did not want. These inserts can be ordered in different sizes and are inserted in the pipe and secured with a screw. You can make the insert so that it is easily removed by working some of the metal off the insert so that you can remove when you want. I have not tried them yet but they have arrived. They are about 6.5 inches long and the center is a tube about 1 ¼ in diameter with holes in it like the pipe inside a muffler. Around this 6.5 inch pipe there are 3 rings that are 2.5 inches with 5/8 inch holes about every 1/8 inch apart all the way around the ring. I am going to drill a hole in the exhaust pipe and have a nut welded on the pipe that I can use to put a bolt through to secure the insert. That way I can pull it out when I want to get the full benefit of the system plus I do not want a rattle. Their web site is www.carchemistry.com and they have sizes from 2 inch to 4 inch and from two disk to 3 disk. It comes with inserts to cap the center insert pipe, or put a cap on that just has a smaller hole than the inside tube so it can be reduced.

My plan is to insert this pipe at the joint right before the muffler. The exhaust pipe makes a bend at that point and after the v-band it turns again. This is about the right straight area to hold the insert and it can not move forward or back from that point over 1 inch either way so removal will be easy. Plus I think it will not affect the flow as much if it is back in the system and before the muffler. Either way I am not going to do it right away.

[Celt03]

[quote=08SkyLdr;321677]I'm fairly new to the form as well, but after reading this thread there is quite a bit of excellent information here. I have an '08 RL and opted to get the CAT Back exhaust installed by the dealer before I took delivery. Since the dealer exhaust is only a 2.5" Borla system, your best purchase for the money is the Magnaflow 3". If I had it to do over again, I'd get the Magnaflow and save a little green.[/QUOTE]

I talked to Sky & Sol owners and listened to thier exhausts.
So after investigating into it - I decided to go with the Magnaflow, too.
Now I am trying to decide which CAI to go with - the Fujita or the Dejon.


FedEx just dropped off my new Magnaflow exhaust !!

[bryguycbr]

My 3" MagnaFlow should be delivered home in a few days. I have to figure out how to wiggle underneath to install it.

[08SkyLdr]

For what it's worth.... I'm placing my order for the Fugita CAI (and IC tubes) and the Big Bore Thottle Body today.