RPI GT Exhaust+DP and IC Dyno'd today

[moline]

was able to get to RPI today and dyno'd my auto RL.

eloy and dale did several pulls.

attached are the scans of some of the dyno sheets.

max HP: 210
max PSI: 18
max ftlb: 205
(have the sheets with the AFRs - which i'll try to scan latter.)

eloy may explain the dyno better than me. not bad considering the conservative numbers from the dynamometer.

had a great time. and got to see eloy jump for joy when the new tubo game in!! (now if only i can get eloy to let me 'try out' brutus when it's done!!!)

later
dan

p.s. i also have some vids that nate captured. i'll post a link latter.

[GeniusInABottle]

Originally Posted by moline

max HP: 210
max PSI: 18
max ftlb: 205
(have the sheets with the AFRs - which i'll try to scan latter.)

eloy may explain the dyno better than me. not bad considering the conservative numbers from the dynamometer.

Per Eloy:
$3774: R1 package (est 330hp) includes:
- GT exhaust +6-20whp
- Stage 2 intercooler +20whp
- GT downpipe +7-18whp
- R1 tune +18-25whp

I'm sorry, but how are these results not bad? It's a 12whp overall gain when the IC alone was supposed to net 20whp. So, the tune gets him from this.. to 330hp?

[BSRL]

This was exactly my point. Same mods with a manual will show much higher gains simply becasue you cannot get an accurate hp read off the dyno for automatics.

So Genius, I wouldn't worry about the dyno you had. You have much more whp than what the dyno showed.

[moline]

link to video:

YouTube - RPI Dyno

later
dan

[RPIpower]

Originally Posted by GeniusInABottle

Per Eloy:
$3774: R1 package (est 330hp) includes:
- GT exhaust +6-20whp
- Stage 2 intercooler +20whp
- GT downpipe +7-18whp
- R1 tune +18-25whp

I'm sorry, but how are these results not bad? It's a 12whp overall gain when the IC alone was supposed to net 20whp. So, the tune gets him from this.. to 330hp?

His car has NO tune. The funny thing is that with stock tune, hes making more than an auto with BSR tune. The automatics are going to have different numbers. Our packages were done/dynod on MANUAL trans cars. You guys really need to stop comparing manual and auto cars.

[Lil GTO]

am I missing something in this post? 210 max hp after upgrades on a 2007 Saturn Sky RedLine is supposed to be good? isn't the factory setup 260 hp?

it would make more sense if you were getting 210 hp from the base model (not RedLine) which is stock around 170 or so.

but then the post says estimated results of the package is 330 hp - which makes sense for an upgrade to the RedLine - but then how is a result of 210 hp an improvement?

[GeniusInABottle]

Originally Posted by RPIpower

His car has NO tune. The funny thing is that with stock tune, hes making more than an auto with BSR tune. The automatics are going to have different numbers. Our packages were done/dynod on MANUAL trans cars. You guys really need to stop comparing manual and auto cars.

Originally Posted by GeniusInABottle

Per Eloy:
$3774: R1 package (est 330hp) includes:
- GT exhaust +6-20whp
- Stage 2 intercooler +20whp
- GT downpipe +7-18whp
- R1 tune +18-25whp

I'm sorry, but how are these results not bad? It's a 12whp overall gain when the IC alone was supposed to net 20whp. So, the tune gets him from this.. to 330hp?

I thought I was plenty clear, but just in case I wasn't I obviously accounted for him not yet having your tune. My question was, according to you, your R1 package is good for 330hp. Moline has everything in your package BUT the tune, therefor your statement is that his current configuration (IC+DP+Exhaust), rated at 210whp, with the addition of your tune is supposed to somehow equal 330hp..?

I don't recall where you mentioned that these numbers applied only to standard transmission vehicles. Can you please show me where you stated this, because clearly it was common knowledge to everyone here but me.

Are you going to continue to stand by your initial estimates now that these numbers are out, or will they need to be changed as either (A) automatics make much much less power than standard transmission (B) You can not accurately get a dyno reading from an automatic transmission.

If (A), are you then willing to say that an automatic which rates as being much much less powerful is still, all other things being equal, going to beat a manual in a 0-60 test, if not a quarter mile? Which it would.

[GeniusInABottle]

Originally Posted by Lil GTO

am I missing something in this post? 210 max hp after upgrades on a 2007 Saturn Sky RedLine is supposed to be good? isn't the factory setup 260 hp?

it would make more sense if you were getting 210 hp from the base model (not RedLine) which is stock around 170 or so.

but then the post says estimated results of the package is 330 hp - which makes sense for an upgrade to the RedLine - but then how is a result of 210 hp an improvement?

We're talking power to the wheels, not power to the crank. Sky RedLines apparently get about 198hp to the wheels (whp) on RPi's dyno, so 260hp = 198whp in this instance. That said, yes, 210whp sounds plenty low to me as well considering the parts he's got versus what's been advertised.

[BSRL]

Originally Posted by RPIpower

His car has NO tune. The funny thing is that with stock tune, hes making more than an auto with BSR tune. The automatics are going to have different numbers. Our packages were done/dynod on MANUAL trans cars. You guys really need to stop comparing manual and auto cars.

My point with the automatics is that they should make the same or very close to the same power that is made on the manuals with the same mods. It this statement is clear enough to you than you should see that your dyno cannot accurately tell you what the whp is with the automatics. You've now dynoed two automatics with a lot of mods and neither one of them show anywhere near what all the ones with manuals have dynoed.

If you take the guy who dynoed 276 whp on your dyno with his mods and manual transmission and put it on a 1/4 mile track against the automatic you just dynoed with the same mods they will be pretty equal. On paper a 210whp redline would not be anywhere close to a 276 whp manual. The problem is they are the same cars with the same mods only different transmissions yet they show a 66whp difference.

Is it hard to admit that your dynos of the automatics are not accurate?

We are comparing them because stock and automatic beats the manual in 0-60 and probably 1/4 mile too because of the quicker shifts so in this case the transmission makes the car faster. If you take these same two cars and put the same mods on them, the auto should still be faster, right?

[RPIpower]

330hp is estmated at the crank. All the dyno tests were done on a MANUAL car. I wouldnt be so concerned with the numbers as many of you are. I would be more concerned about the actual gains shown from each mod. If someone has a manual trans redline with bsr, I would be more than happy to dyno it.

Also, anyone care to race Vodoo? He has intercooler, dp and exhaust with NO tune.

[BSRL]

Originally Posted by RPIpower

330hp is estmated at the crank. All the dyno tests were done on a MANUAL car. I wouldnt be so concerned with the numbers as many of you are. I would be more concerned about the actual gains shown from each mod. If someone has a manual trans redline with bsr, I would be more than happy to dyno it.

Also, anyone care to race Vodoo? He has intercooler, dp and exhaust with NO tune.

I'd be interested to see what a manual does with the BSR tune on your dyno too.

I don't see why an auto with Vodoo's same mods would be any slower, is that what you are implying? Ok, maybe he's an awesome driver that's great. But he would still be only slightly faster than the auto. So if he's done some things to make his car lighter, I am saying the same mods in that regard too because weight does affect performance.

[GeniusInABottle]

He mentions voodoo's car in particular because it's a freak supposedly. More powerful than others which he's tested.

[RPIpower]

In the end guys, its just a number. Who cares if you dyno XXX on a certain dyno. Lets go to the track

[BSRL]

I love freaky cars!

[moline]

guys - stop beating up on eloy!

figuring 17% loss to the wheels (average) = 215whp.
RPI's Dyno Dynamics is known for it's very conservative numbers. (mustang GTs shows 190whp!)
even eloy has said stock manual RL's test at ~205whp.

i have no tune. IC + GT Exhaust and DP (w/ CAT).

after installing the IC, i noticed a quicker response with more pull along the entire powerband.
after the GT Exhaust install, i noticed more HP and that great note.(would expect !10-12whp increase)
after the DP install, response was about the same but a 'meaner' note. (eloy
saz DP w/cat tests ~7whp increase (i couldn't tell the difference.)

i think getting an accurate dyno reading on an automatic is hard. and since all RPI's baseline's were on manuals - some furge factor is allowed.
(i've never got to 18psi before - always > 100mph by 17psi!!)

after all it's an auto on a roadster for @%sake!!! (had to give into the wife on this!!)

my next mod will be the tune. hopefully next month. will get another dyno at RPI than.

let me restate - couldn't be happier with the RPI mods i've done.

quality products and always a fun trip to RPI. definitely worth the looks people give on wot!

later
dan

[RPIpower]

Haha, beating up on me? Never! Id like to see one of them try. The cars coming out of here are faster than most places.....hands down.......if you listen to our advice. Silly mods will only get you to silly places. Most guys only care about a "number" for bragging rights, but they never race, track, etc. I'll have customers at the next track event. Hope some of the guys who have a LOT to say on the forums can show up.

[GeniusInABottle]

Can I get some details on this Eloy? I'd love to take my car to the track sometime this summer.

[RPIpower]

Originally Posted by GeniusInABottle

Can I get some details on this Eloy? I'd love to take my car to the track sometime this summer.

Its in the pacific thread. VFX and a few others are going. If you want, you can meet up with me and I can do some 3rd and 4rth gear pulls vs. your car.

[vfx]

Originally Posted by GeniusInABottle

Can I get some details on this Eloy? I'd love to take my car to the track sometime this summer.

Special Event from Raven Wing Performance!

This is the group sponsoring the event. I will be there both days.

My car (redline) has the RPI exhaust, downpipe, intake, stage 1 tune for making power. I will be glad to show off the cars 'poor' dyno numbers. See ya on the straightaway!


chris

[moline]

Originally Posted by vfx

Special Event from Raven Wing Performance!

This is the group sponsoring the event. I will be there both days.

My car (redline) has the RPI exhaust, downpipe, intake, stage 1 tune for making power. I will be glad to show off the cars 'poor' dyno numbers. See ya on the straightaway!


chris

i had a reservationfor sunday, 5/18th. but unfortunately i had