Dealer - Customer Protocols

[rs0987654]

Hello Forum Members!

Though I have been reading this forum for months and have marvelled at your endurance through incredible exploits, I finally decided to join you. I ordered a Sky Redline for myself. The dealer asked for several color choices, and I gave him the following three in order, Midnight Blue, Bluestone, and Forest Green; all with Tan tops and Tan interior. The equipment is a 5-speed manual, XM, and the best sound system available. Dealer assessories will include a wind restrictor and the snow flake Saturn chrome wheels that some of you like and some of you don't (I think that the factory wheels don't have enough chrome to set off the metalic colors).

The dealer said 3 months, and if he holds to that, I would be happy. There are also some dealer add-ons that should provide him an incentive to keep me as a valued customer. But now the strang behavior starts. He said he would order it last Monday, or maybe Thursday if he had allocation, and that he would call. But he didn't call. I called him on Thursday but everyone was out. I called on Friday and everyone was in training. I called yesterday, and the salesman said he would check with the boss and get back to me.

I have asked for an order number, a code, and the number of orders ahead of me. I also think it is fair to call every two weeks for an update. I know this is a very difficult process for everyone. And as you can see, I am willing to play a game for our mutual interest. What do you think is going on and what expectations should I have of the dealer?

Thank you,

RS

PS. I need to clean out my stable to make room for the new car. Anyone
interested in a 99 Black Vette Hardtop, or an 05 Red CTS-V?

[Rick Tinley Park]

Originally Posted by rs0987654

Hello Forum Members!
Though I have been reading this forum for months and have marvelled at your endurance through incredible exploits, I finally decided to join you. I ordered a Sky Redline for myself. The dealer asked for several color choices, and I gave him the following three in order, Midnight Blue, Bluestone, and Forest Green; all with Tan tops and Tan interior. The equipment is a 5-speed manual, XM, and the best sound system available. Dealer assessories will include a wind restrictor and the snow flake Saturn chrome wheels that some of you like and some of you don't (I think that the factory wheels don't have enough chrome to set off the metalic colors).

The dealer said 3 months, and if he holds to that, I would be happy. There are also some dealer add-ons that should provide him an incentive to keep me as a valued customer. But now the strang behavior starts. He said he would order it last Monday, or maybe Thursday if he had allocation, and that he would call. But he didn't call. I called him on Thursday but everyone was out. I called on Friday and everyone was in training. I called yesterday, and the salesman said he would check with the boss and get back to me.

I have asked for an order number, a code, and the number of orders ahead of me. I also think it is fair to call every two weeks for an update. I know this is a very difficult process for everyone. And as you can see, I am willing to play a game for our mutual interest. What do you think is going on and what expectations should I have of the dealer?

Thank you,

RS

PS. I need to clean out my stable to make room for the new car. Anyone
interested in a 99 Black Vette Hardtop, or an 05 Red CTS-V?

There are a few things that make me say Hmmmmmmmmmm. THE most important is color choice...
If he is ordering the car for you.... They have not painted it yet. You should order THE color you want with just the equipment you want.
However "getting" the order in may take a bit - if he is waiting for an allocation. Once that happens then you should move forward. The line of people ahead of you - are they ordered or waiting for an allocation as well?? Remember allocations come in slowly and if there are say 5 people ahead with no allocation (depending on the dealers numbers) it could tak 3 week - it coulf take 5 months to get actually ordered. If they are allocated and the dealer is waiting for your allocation - then you are doing well!

[DaleF]

The only reason I can think of, as to why he asked for several color choices, is incase someone in front of you backs out. Then he'll have a list of who else wanted/would be happy with, that same color with similar options.

[SSC_Summit]

How much time passed from initial order to when you don't have any information?

I'm not sure we have seen any unusual or strange behavior. Sounds to me like they just forgot to call you. Which also means they may have forgotten to order your vehicle.

So far it just sounds like poor customer service. Frustrating I'm sure.

I would call and just talk to your salesperson, tell him you would like updates on a regular basis, and if he can't provide them you are ok with working with another salesperson who can.

[jayman]

I played that "no allocation" game with a dealer--for ten weeks--and never even received a purchase number--most dealers will get you entered right away--so i'd be very wary.

BTW--the Saturn wind restrictor is fuggly, IMHO, looks like a black badminton net--check out some of the wind restrictor threads on the forum for other options...Good luck

[rs0987654]

Thank you for all of your comments. To bring you up to date, the deposit was placed with the dealer two weeks ago, and I placed three calls with the dealer last weekend trying to get an update without anyone returning my calls. This weekend my wife and I visited the dealer with my brother in law to show him the floor model. I asked the manager about the status and found some interesting things. The dealer has about 7 people ahead of me and got one allocation last week. The dealer apparently only enters an order when an allocation comes up in the system, and until then, the order stays on paper in the file drawer. There is no order number until then. The words the manager said is that he "orders when an image comes up" in the system. This means to me, and please correct this impression because it must be wrong, is that if he gets an allocation during a week in which there is a constraint, he sorts through his file and finds the order that will best secure the allocation despite the constraint. I was under the impression that with other dealers who put all their orders in the system, the VOM will select the order from the dealer pool that best exploits the allocation available in the priority order the dealer sets. It also explains why my dealer wanted three color choices.

It also seems to me that using the procedure at my Saturn dealer, there are probably 1000 orders nationwide that Saturn does not know about. How can Saturn adjust production unless it knows what is out there? I thought I placed an order with Saturn through one of its dealers, and not with a dealer alone. Also, doesn't getting all orders in the system assure the dealer that all allocations will be captured in some way or another? What would happen if the manager got sick when a slot came up?

I was also clear from one comment that the dealer did not know how to use the system correctly. I asked the manager when my order was given event code 1100, and he replied he did not know what '1100' means.

My wife says to forget about all of this. I respond that it looks like this process will take six months without any guarantee of getting a car when they advised me it will take three months to deliver a car.

Three months will be great, but I also want to play by the rules, and I want to work with a dealer that will also. I just have real reservations as to whether this dealer really knows how to process orders through the system.

Rich

[Asucar]

Where are you located, Rich? Sounds like your dealer or salesman isn't particularly knowledgeable about the process or forthcoming....you might want to check out the thread on 'getting your sky', as an allocation is just a slot for either a Sky or Sky RL, not for any particular color or feature combo....call around and if you're willing to travel, you might well find your RL somewhere in the country ready to pick up and drive home........depending on where you are, get a lot of suggestions and pointers from others who have ordered or gotten theirs in the same area....and you're in good company for the wait....

[SilverRedLineSky]

Never received my order number for five months, Salesperson was not aware of how the system worked so I let it ride. My dealership owns 5 stores and the wait is 5 to 8 months, it gets to the point of losing interest, but the Forum keeps you going.

[Skyflare]

Originally Posted by rs0987654

Hello Forum Members!

Though I have been reading this forum for months and have marvelled at your endurance through incredible exploits, I finally decided to join you. I ordered a Sky Redline for myself. The dealer asked for several color choices, and I gave him the following three in order, Midnight Blue, Bluestone, and Forest Green; all with Tan tops and Tan interior. The equipment is a 5-speed manual, XM, and the best sound system available. Dealer assessories will include a wind restrictor and the snow flake Saturn chrome wheels that some of you like and some of you don't (I think that the factory wheels don't have enough chrome to set off the metalic colors).

The dealer said 3 months, and if he holds to that, I would be happy. There are also some dealer add-ons that should provide him an incentive to keep me as a valued customer. But now the strang behavior starts. He said he would order it last Monday, or maybe Thursday if he had allocation, and that he would call. But he didn't call. I called him on Thursday but everyone was out. I called on Friday and everyone was in training. I called yesterday, and the salesman said he would check with the boss and get back to me.

I have asked for an order number, a code, and the number of orders ahead of me. I also think it is fair to call every two weeks for an update. I know this is a very difficult process for everyone. And as you can see, I am willing to play a game for our mutual interest. What do you think is going on and what expectations should I have of the dealer?

Thank you,

RS

PS. I need to clean out my stable to make room for the new car. Anyone
interested in a 99 Black Vette Hardtop, or an 05 Red CTS-V?

WELCOME!!

My advise is "SHOP" around for a more responsive dealership.

[gary p]

Wow, I don't know what to say. If the retailer is waiting until he has an allocation to enter orders he is potentially costing his customers money. We put a preliminary order in the system THE SAME DAY WE GET THE DEPOSIT. Its the only way to ensure price protection from GM. In fact, some of our Sky customers saved $1500 because we had properly entered their preliminary orders. 6 months ago I could have maybe made a reasonable case for ingnorance on the retailer's part since the transition to the GM order system was relatively fresh. By now its inexcusable for the mangers to not know the system. The fact that the manager used the term "image" tells me he is still stuck in the old Saturn order system mentality. Waiting for an image was the old way. Preliminary orders have been the proper way for almost a year now.

I'll be honest and say the individual sales consultants at our store are pretty ignorant about the order system. Order management is not their job and we don't teach it to them. But if a customer came to them with a question about order ID number or order status they would come to us and we would give them a strait answer to give back to the customer. And since we're the ones keeping abreast of the situation, we make the occasional calls to customers to let them know how things are progressing. Are we getting more or less allocation that we thought? What is our current best guestimate at when their car will be built and delivered? Are there any production constraints that might cause their order to be passed over for a lower priority order? What's the possibility that their order may not be built until the 2008 model year? Etc.

As for the 1000 orders that Saturn doesn't know about because they aren't entered in the system? Sadly I'm affraid the number may be more. On the other hand, it doesn't matter in terms of production. The Kappa plant is running at maximum capacitiy already. As of right now there are only 8 weeks of allocation left on the 2007 model year Skys. If you're #7 on the list at your retailer now its quite possible your Sky will be a 2008. If that's the case the price protection issue is moot anyway since it doesn't carry over the model year change.

The good news is that whatever the trials and tribulations of the wait are the Sky Redline will be worth it. Hang in there, it will all be worth it in the end.

[gary p]

Originally Posted by rs0987654

What would happen if the manager got sick when a slot came up?

In the absence of any preliminary order, the system would randomly generate a configuration for the retailer. If the retailer had been issued a constraint it would be lost; the randomly generated configuration would not include any constrained options. The system will then attempt to place that constrained option with another retailer that was not issued a constraint but had a preliminary order in with a constraint that was prioritized higher than any order without the constraint.

In English, if he's sick the week he gets an allocation that's supposed to go to you, you will lose at least a week if not more because the system will not randomly generate a Redline model as long as there are other retailers that know how to play the system. I've been able to get Redlines in allocation weeks where we weren't issued a Redline constraint by playing my cards right, thanks to retailers that either didn't want the Redline constraint they had or who didn't know how to make sure they got their due constraint.

[StoneBlue]

Originally Posted by gary p

Wow, I don't know what to say. If the retailer is waiting until he has an allocation to enter orders he is potentially costing his customers money. We put a preliminary order in the system THE SAME DAY WE GET THE DEPOSIT. Its the only way to ensure price protection from GM. In fact, some of our Sky customers saved $1500 because we had properly entered their preliminary orders. 6 months ago I could have maybe made a reasonable case for ingnorance on the retailer's part since the transition to the GM order system was relatively fresh. By now its inexcusable for the mangers to not know the system. The fact that the manager used the term "image" tells me he is still stuck in the old Saturn order system mentality. Waiting for an image was the old way. Preliminary orders have been the proper way for almost a year now.

I'll be honest and say the individual sales consultants at our store are pretty ignorant about the order system. Order management is not their job and we don't teach it to them. But if a customer came to them with a question about order ID number or order status they would come to us and we would give them a strait answer to give back to the customer. And since we're the ones keeping abreast of the situation, we make the occasional calls to customers to let them know how things are progressing. Are we getting more or less allocation that we thought? What is our current best guestimate at when their car will be built and delivered? Are there any production constraints that might cause their order to be passed over for a lower priority order? What's the possibility that their order may not be built until the 2008 model year? Etc.

As for the 1000 orders that Saturn doesn't know about because they aren't entered in the system? Sadly I'm affraid the number may be more. On the other hand, it doesn't matter in terms of production. The Kappa plant is running at maximum capacitiy already. As of right now there are only 8 weeks of allocation left on the 2007 model year Skys. If you're #7 on the list at your retailer now its quite possible your Sky will be a 2008. If that's the case the price protection issue is moot anyway since it doesn't carry over the model year change.

The good news is that whatever the trials and tribulations of the wait are the Sky Redline will be worth it. Hang in there, it will all be worth it in the end.

Finally, a Dealer that knows what he is talking about. (No offense to the other Dealers on the forum). Thankyou for educating us on how the ordering system works. Maybe some of our members will print out your remarks and take them to their Dealers who seem clueless about how to order a SKY.

[Skyflare]

THANK YOU!

[rs0987654]

Success!

Since my update last Sunday, I decided it was time to take the advice of several of you and shop around. I am located in California and went to Google and found a site where I could pull the phone numbers of all the Saturn dealers in the State by county. After printing them out, I decided that the first contact should be to Saturn of Santa Clarita. I knew them from the LA Auto Show. They provided all of the Saturns in the show. I also knew that they where not in my area, but traveling to the dealership would not be unreasonable. I had bookmarked their website before ordering from the other dealer. I also knew that they where a forum vendor. John is a member and goes by the name SSC_Summit. John made some objective comments earlier in this thread. He did not ask for my business and did not know that I was within reach of the dealership. I contacted him and we handled everything by email and phone. I now have an order from the GM VOM itself with the understanding that I will be updated on its progress every two weeks by email. It was so simple and straightforward. It makes you wonder why there are so many horror stories out there. Thank you John. It is a pleasure doing business with you.

The car I ordered is a Silver Graphite Redline with Black Leather interior, 5-speed manual, spoiler, XM, and 6-disc CD/MP3 system. No add-ons and at MSRP. There are two Redlines ahead of me waiting for allocations in his dealership, so the estimate is 3-4 months.

I could have ordered the car yesterday but I wanted an extra day to think about my color choices. I originally thought the tan interior would be good, but I never felt at home with the design of the inserts. So, the two colors that I tied to the tan were out, namely the Forest Green and Midnight Blue. I liked the Black interior. It looked tailored and more elegant. I thought I would be happier with it longer than the tan. The possible exterior colors were Yellow, Black, and Silver Graphite. I like all the curves in the Sky. It is more sculptured than most cars, and to me, the graphite would bring that out more than the other choices. The combination of the black and graphite was simple, understated and elegant. So, that became my choice. There were two Sky’s at the LA Auto Show, one Green and the other Graphite, and it was the Graphite that I kept circling around. It really fascinated me and I believe that it will suit my tastes for a long time.

I now join those of you who are waiting, and I will be writing from time to time about chrome wheels, which are necessary to set off the Graphite, license plate frames, and the like. I can now wait with the piece of mind that that which can be done, is being done.

I have come to believe that there are no evil Saturn dealers, but there are some who have not kept up with the business. I had a thought that there must be a lot of dealers out there who have literally had no product to sell for years, and with each year that went by they did not re-invest in developing a sales force, learning new systems, or expanding their staffs to provide the type of customer service that Saturn advertises. Now, in one year, they have a Sky, Sky Redline, Aura, Outlook, and soon they will have a new Vue and Astra, and they are caught short. I heard today that Saturn will soon begin a program in which dealers will come to your home or business to conduct a test drive. Some dealers will not be ready for this.

Thank you for all of your comments and encouraging remarks. They were most appreciated.

Rich

[cerberus]

Originally Posted by rs0987654

Success!

Congrats on the order!!! I bought both my Sky and my "regular" car from SSC_Summit. You're pretty much set now. No worries for you from here on out

[SSC_Summit]

Rich -

Thank you for your comments. I look foward to meeting you when you come to pick up your Redline!

[flipper52170]

I can surely relate...as I'm not having the best of luck getting any status on my order as well. Seems the few times I have called the dealer, I find it is my sales guys 'day off'...

When he isn't there and I try to get the store manager, whom I am told is the person I need to speak with, he is never available or "isn't answering his page"...

I left name, number, and order #...now we'll see if I get at least a courtesy return call...

Knowing that I was at 3000 over 3-5 (I forget) weeks ago, I'd like to know if I'm on track with everything else, and have a little better idea when to expect the RL to show up.

Isn't there any other avenue available to customers with order #'s to do some level of tracking on this? It sure seems that the first couple times I attempted to get a status, the dealer didn't seem to up on the procedure either...

Like my sales guy, don't have issue with dealership...I know my problem truly is patience...but come on, work with me here....isn't like I'm calling all the time. This is only the 3rd time overall wanting any update...and the first was that scenario of wanting my order # after had placed deposit and never been called with it, as promised.

[flipper52170]

Must be my dealership reads these posts...LOL

Just got call back from my dealerships store manager, and he was super nice and told me 3400, "Scheduled for production week of 2/5" which is this week.

According to him, I should expect the car at dealership in 4-5 weeks ready for my pickup. Guess that is enough for me...time to get the garage ready...which should be fun while on crutches and barely able to keep myself upright...but have to have motivations for something worthwhile!