Not a Happy Camper!

richmcc · 01-06-2006, 10:05 PM

Yesterday I spoke with my salesman at Saturn of the Valley and was not very happy when I got off of the phone. I have been asking about pricing and whether Saturn of the Valley was committed to selling at MSRP. Well he told me that SOV will probably be selling above MSRP, while he did not say how much but he kept mentioning how Pontiac dealers where selling at 5K over and how it was not fair to the sales people i.e himself, to sell the car at MSRP and have people sell it on e-bay for 5k over MSRP.

He also seemed pretty annoyed that I was upset over the idea that they would sell the car over MSRP and told me, that I should just wait for the price to go down.

Now I want to qualify this by saying:

1) He may have been annoyed from me calling him everytime I hear any news on here. I just spoke to him last week about the samthing.
2) He has not provided with one bit of information regarding the Sky and it is quite possible that he was just speculating or conveying his wishful thinking!

3) I need to talk to the Sales or General Manager to find out if this is true or not.

While I don't like the idea of any dealer hiking the price, at least if I was buying a Solstice I could have the opportunity to try and talk the price down. But with Saturn they have the no haggle pricing. The advantage for the customer is that they get a car at reasonable price without depending on there negotiating skills. But to charge 5k or anything over the MSRP and tell me that they "don't haggle" is

. I guess because they are one of Saturn's biggest dealer they can think they can get away with this. I personally cannot think of a better way to alienate a customer or worst Customer Service.

Anyways, I know there are several people on the board that have deposits at SOV and hopefully a SOV Sales Person or two. I was wondering if any of you were smarter than me

and had them put into writing that they will sell it at MSRP. Or have any information on whether they plan to sell at MSRP or not.

Likewise I believe there are 11 Saturn Dealers in the Los Angeles area and I would be interested if anyone has gotten it in writing that they will sell at M.S.R.P. at any other L.A. Dealer.

Fformula88 · 01-06-2006, 10:25 PM

Wow, so much for "no haggle" pricing at MSRP for Saturn dealers.

Sorry you had such an unfavorable conversation with them!

I am almost surprised (almost!) that Saturn dealers would pull this, since they normally seem VERY concerned about customer relations. I know there isn't much GM can do to Pontiac dealers about sale price, but is there anything in the dealer franchise contract with Saturn that might allow GM to be more forceful about selling Sky's no higher than MSRP? Or are there hands still essentially tied? (I know they generally advertise that actual pricing is set by the retailers)

richmcc · 01-06-2006, 10:30 PM

I really do need to find out if this is just one Sales person opinion or in fact it is the dealers policy.

Fformula88 · 01-06-2006, 10:32 PM

Try to talk to the sales manager directly!

skywatcher · 01-06-2006, 10:57 PM

Speak to the sales manager, but I suspect you will find that this is the general policy.
Other area dealers appear to be taking a wait and see approach to how far over MSRP they will go and how.
Your dealer will influence this.
We may have a tough challenge in the SoCal market.
Don't know how or if it can be tamed.

Delnari · 01-06-2006, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richmcc

I really do need to find out if this is just one Sales person opinion or in fact it is the dealers policy.

I know Saturn has a policy to sell only to customers in their area. This really restricts to whom they can sell. Maybe this is what drives this salespersons feelings. Maybe, they have to face Pontiac salespeople at lunch time bragging about how much they made off their last Solstice sale. It sucks to think someone else is making money you too could be making.

**rick112** · 01-06-2006, 11:59 PM

I have a condition in my contract that says the price of the Sky have to be in line with that of the Miata. If it isn't I'll drop the car.

usmc · 01-07-2006, 12:19 AM

I was just reading over on the solstice site post after post of this sort of thing happening and even worse. I won't go into details here but go search over there, plenty of horror stories some I just can't believe the dealers had the ba!!s to do.
anyway, looks like someone over there came up with this to vent their anger--
http://hometown.aol.com/nsdbl/NSDBL.html
I'm thinking of maybe doing something similiar, it probably won't accomplish anyting but it will make ppl feel better.

this stuff really P's me off... and to thnk that ppl thought "saturn won't do that, it goes against everything they stand for".... pfffft, money talks bs walks.

skywatcher · 01-07-2006, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usmc

and to thnk that ppl thought "saturn won't do that, it goes against everything they stand for"...

The Sky has changed things.
In my opinion, the Saturn that I knew has died and gone to GM.
Supply and demand _WILL_ drive this regional market per dealer statements.
I personally do not intend to remain a repeat Saturn customer after what I have encountered and expect to continue.
Quite a shame for GM really, as such a low volume model can
hardly make up for their Saturn division winding up as Oldsmobile.
The horror stories are coming, and are actually starting.
Can anyone figure out how to stop it before it becomes accepted practice?

seal9 · 01-07-2006, 10:48 AM

I called my Saturn dealer in Pensacola, Very Nice Guy. said they will not up charge also the dealer has 25 car for the first years alotment, with 12 on the list as of 1/6/06...Seal9

MrJester · 01-07-2006, 01:01 PM

Have you thought about calling other Saturn dealers and asking them if they will put it in writing "at MSRP?" At this point we are all on a list and waiting, so if you withdrawl your deposit at SOV and find one that won't "upcharge" you're still in line. Maybe you can find one with a short list. The difference between being #2 and #5 is only a month or two but it may save you $5000.

jimbo · 01-07-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richmcc

Yesterday I spoke with my salesman at Saturn of the Valley and was not very happy when I got off of the phone. I have been asking about pricing and whether Saturn of the Valley was committed to selling at MSRP. Well he told me that SOV will probably be selling above MSRP, while he did not say how much but he kept mentioning how Pontiac dealers where selling at 5K over and how it was not fair to the sales people i.e himself, to sell the car at MSRP and have people sell it on e-bay for 5k over MSRP.

Not fair? NOT FAIR???

It never ceases to amaze me how fair it seems for dealers who think it is fair to charge thousands above MSRP. Well try this on for size. Tell you dealer, would it be fair for GM to charge the dealer thousands more? I mean why not?

The Sky will be a hot car. How about GM telling dealers they have to bid on their vehicle prices, and the dealership that is willing to pay $5,000 over invoice will get the cars.

They never can see the logic in this. GM could gouge the dealerships on hot cars. But they don't. How about they extend the same courtesy to their customers? Dirty stinking rotten jerks.

KappaMan · 01-07-2006, 07:05 PM

Sky Dealer and Saturn Sales are pretty quiet.....

(Just kidding you guys!)

Eye on Sky · 01-07-2006, 07:55 PM

I heeded the senior member warnings about this when I put down my deposit, along time back. I had it written msrp or lower and guarannteed March delivery. At the time alot of people scoffed at guaranteed March delivery. i signed the contract on thursday and the order image is on Monday. I will be the first from this dealer group. There was never a question in the owners mind he would sell at msrp. he seems genuinely excited for me getting the first in his five dealership group. He is also telling me two to three weeks delivery upon acceptance on Monday. He is a great guy and a sharp businessman. Sure he can make a few quick bucks and ruin his reputation, but he is in for the long haul. Satisfied customers create hugh revenue streams. i have already sent 3 girls from the office over to look for a new car. They are going there based on my raving how they treated me. i can't say he treated everyone the same, and that people who didn't ask for msrp or less will be charged more, but i can read people preatty well, i don't think it will happen here. I want to thank the Senior, Mod. members for giving the heads up to insure a pleasnt buying experience.

Delnari · 01-07-2006, 09:13 PM

Strict orders from the Top! See nothing, Say nothing, Know nothing.

bigdog · 01-07-2006, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fformula88

Try to talk to the sales manager directly!

I placed my "order" this morning. My sales manager at Saturn of Concord in Nor Cal said they only sell at MSRP. They haved stuck with the "no haggle" policy since they opend and it sure sounds like that will continue.

That's why I deal with these folks. By the way, my "order" will be the first customer image to go

Angelqute1 · 01-07-2006, 11:55 PM

I'm also on the list at Saturn of the Valley and I've had my deposit in for about 5+ months now. I hope that what you were told was not true and I will also be following up on the price. I will PM you with the GM's name. Not that any of you can't get it and post it, but... you know. I don't want to make waves. I'd also like to know what Jill has to say about this in terms of what the guidelines are for the dealerships.... Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

Angelqute1 · 01-08-2006, 12:15 AM

Okay, so check it out....

I just called the GM at SOV and had a very pleasant converasation with him. And here's the bottom line...

As a result of the Pontiac Solstice being bought at the MSRP and resold at a much higer value, via EBAY, private sales, etc. It is true, the price that they are looking at (POSSIBLY) is $3,000 - $5,000 above MSRP. Again, GM is not reeping the benefits of the worth of the car. Especially if it's going for much more due to being a hot commodity. Is it fair? I think so. I mean I think it sucks, since I have absolutely NO PLANS to sell my car for a profit. So the people who did it with the Solstice, basically screwed us all. But the car was supposed to be a good deal.... it's supposed to be a fantastic car! I'm pissed that I may have to pay more, but I'm still getting it, because it's still gonna be a hot commodity and I'm going to have one!!!! Nothing is set in stone and he made that perfectly clear, but I wouldn't be surprised.
And as for those who supposedly signed a contract stating that they would pay MSRP? I'd like to know more about that. Is it for real? I asked the GM if I could be "exempt" from paying over MSRP and he said NO, straight up! I'm still jazzed, because I am going to have a car that's going to be so cool and so few and far between, that it's worth the extra couple thousand.
So be prepared.

Delnari · 01-08-2006, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelqute1

I'm also on the list at Saturn of the Valley and I've had my deposit in for about 5+ months now. I hope that what you were told was not true and I will also be following up on the price. I will PM you with the GM's name. Not that any of you can't get it and post it, but... you know. I don't want to make waves. I'd also like to know what Jill has to say about this in terms of what the guidelines are for the dealerships.... Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

Angelqute1, like other dealerships that purchase from GM rules can vary from dealership to dealership. Although there are standard guidelines that all franchises should follow there still is a lot of gray in these guides. The best approach is to meet with both your salesperson and General Manager to be sure everyone is all on the same page. If you can get something in writing about the deal all the better, but most GM's are reluctant to commit this early in writing and getting a verbal agreement may help you sleep better at night.

Taking your salesperson out for a nice dinner might help too

Angelqute1 · 01-08-2006, 12:32 AM

I didn't even know you could take your sales person out to dinner. Is that okay? It's not considered bribery or anything like that? I would be happy too if it helps. And my sales person is a cool hippy chick that would be kinda neat to get to know. Maybe I will do that, as long as it's kosher.

Turk · 01-08-2006, 12:41 AM

Angelqute1

Don't buy the car. $5000 over sticker? Are you kidding? Add the extra $1500 in interest on your loan and you up to $6500 more than MSRP. Start calling around. I still believe dealers will sell off their demo ASAP - no need to keep it. Mark my words. Start calling just as many solstice owners had to do - and most were successful in getting back on a list - and some quite high on the list. For every 20 deposits, dealers will get 2-3 that will back out. Start calling. Tell ya what. I'll find you a low number on a list for a $1000. Heck, for $3000 - I'll give ya mine! (just kidding). Don't let the car dealer win. It's just a car. Our pontiac dealer nearby has now sold 3 solstices at retail from stock! No one on list anymore. My saturn dealer is a large dealer. He has 22 sold. You don't really know, but he might get allocated 30. He might have 6 back out - that puts you at number 16! Get on his list and buy a plane ticket and come and get it - still cheaper than your dealer.

Well, I hope you get my point.

Good luck

01-06-2006, 10:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
richmcc First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 1,655 My Photos: (13)	Not a Happy Camper! Yesterday I spoke with my salesman at Saturn of the Valley and was not very happy when I got off of the phone. I have been asking about pricing and whether Saturn of the Valley was committed to selling at MSRP. Well he told me that SOV will probably be selling above MSRP, while he did not say how much but he kept mentioning how Pontiac dealers where selling at 5K over and how it was not fair to the sales people i.e himself, to sell the car at MSRP and have people sell it on e-bay for 5k over MSRP. He also seemed pretty annoyed that I was upset over the idea that they would sell the car over MSRP and told me, that I should just wait for the price to go down. Now I want to qualify this by saying: 1) He may have been annoyed from me calling him everytime I hear any news on here. I just spoke to him last week about the samthing. 2) He has not provided with one bit of information regarding the Sky and it is quite possible that he was just speculating or conveying his wishful thinking! 3) I need to talk to the Sales or General Manager to find out if this is true or not. While I don't like the idea of any dealer hiking the price, at least if I was buying a Solstice I could have the opportunity to try and talk the price down. But with Saturn they have the no haggle pricing. The advantage for the customer is that they get a car at reasonable price without depending on there negotiating skills. But to charge 5k or anything over the MSRP and tell me that they "don't haggle" is . I guess because they are one of Saturn's biggest dealer they can think they can get away with this. I personally cannot think of a better way to alienate a customer or worst Customer Service. Anyways, I know there are several people on the board that have deposits at SOV and hopefully a SOV Sales Person or two. I was wondering if any of you were smarter than me and had them put into writing that they will sell it at MSRP. Or have any information on whether they plan to sell at MSRP or not. Likewise I believe there are 11 Saturn Dealers in the Los Angeles area and I would be interested if anyone has gotten it in writing that they will sell at M.S.R.P. at any other L.A. Dealer. __________________ I'll take a BlueStone Sky, Redline please, Stitched not Smooth! *MACH SKY* RL Auto(Stomp 'n Go),Tan/Tan 6 CD,XM,Chrome Dep. 3/11/2006 1100 6/7/2006 #KFPZ7Q BlueStone 6/27/06 3800 10/18/06 VIN #115455 6000 11/03/06 Delivered! Home 11/05/06

01-06-2006, 10:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
richmcc First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 1,655 My Photos: (13)	I really do need to find out if this is just one Sales person opinion or in fact it is the dealers policy. __________________ I'll take a BlueStone Sky, Redline please, Stitched not Smooth! *MACH SKY* RL Auto(Stomp 'n Go),Tan/Tan 6 CD,XM,Chrome Dep. 3/11/2006 1100 6/7/2006 #KFPZ7Q BlueStone 6/27/06 3800 10/18/06 VIN #115455 6000 11/03/06 Delivered! Home 11/05/06

01-07-2006, 10:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
seal9 First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ft. Walton Beach, Fl Posts: 744 My Photos: (0)	No up Charge I called my Saturn dealer in Pensacola, Very Nice Guy. said they will not up charge also the dealer has 25 car for the first years alotment, with 12 on the list as of 1/6/06...Seal9

01-07-2006, 07:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
KappaMan Administrator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: 4.815 162.342? Posts: 1,673 My Photos: (17)	Sky Dealer and Saturn Sales are pretty quiet..... (Just kidding you guys!) __________________ In principio creavit Bob Caelum... Magister Caelum Sum!!! No, I'm NOT Bob Lutz... Link to Forum Rules/Guidelines/Etiquette Link to Sky Specification Estimates/Sky FAQ

01-07-2006, 07:55 PM	#14 (permalink)
Eye on Sky First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 745 My Photos: (0)	Should have listened to all the Senior members I heeded the senior member warnings about this when I put down my deposit, along time back. I had it written msrp or lower and guarannteed March delivery. At the time alot of people scoffed at guaranteed March delivery. i signed the contract on thursday and the order image is on Monday. I will be the first from this dealer group. There was never a question in the owners mind he would sell at msrp. he seems genuinely excited for me getting the first in his five dealership group. He is also telling me two to three weeks delivery upon acceptance on Monday. He is a great guy and a sharp businessman. Sure he can make a few quick bucks and ruin his reputation, but he is in for the long haul. Satisfied customers create hugh revenue streams. i have already sent 3 girls from the office over to look for a new car. They are going there based on my raving how they treated me. i can't say he treated everyone the same, and that people who didn't ask for msrp or less will be charged more, but i can read people preatty well, i don't think it will happen here. I want to thank the Senior, Mod. members for giving the heads up to insure a pleasnt buying experience.

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01-06-2006, 10:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
Fformula88 Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 723 My Photos: (0)	Wow, so much for "no haggle" pricing at MSRP for Saturn dealers. Sorry you had such an unfavorable conversation with them! I am almost surprised (almost!) that Saturn dealers would pull this, since they normally seem VERY concerned about customer relations. I know there isn't much GM can do to Pontiac dealers about sale price, but is there anything in the dealer franchise contract with Saturn that might allow GM to be more forceful about selling Sky's no higher than MSRP? Or are there hands still essentially tied? (I know they generally advertise that actual pricing is set by the retailers)

01-06-2006, 10:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
Fformula88 Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 723 My Photos: (0)	Try to talk to the sales manager directly!

01-06-2006, 10:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
skywatcher First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 102 My Photos: (0)	Speak to the sales manager, but I suspect you will find that this is the general policy. Other area dealers appear to be taking a wait and see approach to how far over MSRP they will go and how. Your dealer will influence this. We may have a tough challenge in the SoCal market. Don't know how or if it can be tamed.

01-06-2006, 11:59 PM	#7 (permalink)
rick112 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,190 My Photos: (0)	I have a condition in my contract that says the price of the Sky have to be in line with that of the Miata. If it isn't I'll drop the car.

01-07-2006, 12:19 AM	#8 (permalink)
usmc First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 1,293 My Photos: (3)	I was just reading over on the solstice site post after post of this sort of thing happening and even worse. I won't go into details here but go search over there, plenty of horror stories some I just can't believe the dealers had the ba!!s to do. anyway, looks like someone over there came up with this to vent their anger-- http://hometown.aol.com/nsdbl/NSDBL.html I'm thinking of maybe doing something similiar, it probably won't accomplish anyting but it will make ppl feel better. this stuff really P's me off... and to thnk that ppl thought "saturn won't do that, it goes against everything they stand for".... pfffft, money talks bs walks.

01-07-2006, 01:01 PM	#11 (permalink)
MrJester First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chesapeake Beach, Maryland Posts: 256 My Photos: (0)	Have you thought about calling other Saturn dealers and asking them if they will put it in writing "at MSRP?" At this point we are all on a list and waiting, so if you withdrawl your deposit at SOV and find one that won't "upcharge" you're still in line. Maybe you can find one with a short list. The difference between being #2 and #5 is only a month or two but it may save you $5000.

01-07-2006, 09:13 PM	#15 (permalink)
Delnari First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Japan Posts: 554 My Photos: (1)	Strict orders from the Top! See nothing, Say nothing, Know nothing.

01-07-2006, 11:55 PM	#17 (permalink)
Angelqute1 First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,046 My Photos: (11)	I'm also on the list at Saturn of the Valley and I've had my deposit in for about 5+ months now. I hope that what you were told was not true and I will also be following up on the price. I will PM you with the GM's name. Not that any of you can't get it and post it, but... you know. I don't want to make waves. I'd also like to know what Jill has to say about this in terms of what the guidelines are for the dealerships.... Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

01-08-2006, 12:15 AM	#18 (permalink)
Angelqute1 First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,046 My Photos: (11)	Okay, so check it out.... I just called the GM at SOV and had a very pleasant converasation with him. And here's the bottom line... As a result of the Pontiac Solstice being bought at the MSRP and resold at a much higer value, via EBAY, private sales, etc. It is true, the price that they are looking at (POSSIBLY) is $3,000 - $5,000 above MSRP. Again, GM is not reeping the benefits of the worth of the car. Especially if it's going for much more due to being a hot commodity. Is it fair? I think so. I mean I think it sucks, since I have absolutely NO PLANS to sell my car for a profit. So the people who did it with the Solstice, basically screwed us all. But the car was supposed to be a good deal.... it's supposed to be a fantastic car! I'm pissed that I may have to pay more, but I'm still getting it, because it's still gonna be a hot commodity and I'm going to have one!!!! Nothing is set in stone and he made that perfectly clear, but I wouldn't be surprised. And as for those who supposedly signed a contract stating that they would pay MSRP? I'd like to know more about that. Is it for real? I asked the GM if I could be "exempt" from paying over MSRP and he said NO, straight up! I'm still jazzed, because I am going to have a car that's going to be so cool and so few and far between, that it's worth the extra couple thousand. So be prepared.

01-08-2006, 12:32 AM	#20 (permalink)
Angelqute1 First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,046 My Photos: (11)	I didn't even know you could take your sales person out to dinner. Is that okay? It's not considered bribery or anything like that? I would be happy too if it helps. And my sales person is a cool hippy chick that would be kinda neat to get to know. Maybe I will do that, as long as it's kosher.

01-08-2006, 12:41 AM	#21 (permalink)
Turk First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 246 My Photos: (37)	Angelqute1 Don't buy the car. $5000 over sticker? Are you kidding? Add the extra $1500 in interest on your loan and you up to $6500 more than MSRP. Start calling around. I still believe dealers will sell off their demo ASAP - no need to keep it. Mark my words. Start calling just as many solstice owners had to do - and most were successful in getting back on a list - and some quite high on the list. For every 20 deposits, dealers will get 2-3 that will back out. Start calling. Tell ya what. I'll find you a low number on a list for a $1000. Heck, for $3000 - I'll give ya mine! (just kidding). Don't let the car dealer win. It's just a car. Our pontiac dealer nearby has now sold 3 solstices at retail from stock! No one on list anymore. My saturn dealer is a large dealer. He has 22 sold. You don't really know, but he might get allocated 30. He might have 6 back out - that puts you at number 16! Get on his list and buy a plane ticket and come and get it - still cheaper than your dealer. Well, I hope you get my point. Good luck

01-08-2006, 12:57 AM	#22 (permalink)
Angelqute1 First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,046 My Photos: (