Lack of Sky owners participating in EVENTS

[Druid-2]

why carry one little isolated incident with you .

You are an asset on any run..whether ToTD of MASSC or VA or whatever !

[smartin]

Originally Posted by Druid-2

why carry one little isolated incident with you .

You are an asset on any run..whether ToTD of MASSC or VA or whatever !

Because it was a big incident to me.

But thanks for the kind words.

And I will not make everyone have a radio on my runs.

[MidniteBlues]

Well I wouldn't mind knowing what causes someone have a a BIG incident that causes s/he to abandon them when it is pretty much unanimous the other way?? I don't get it What happened to smartin to cause this behavior?

[smartin]

Originally Posted by MidniteBlues

Well I wouldn't mind knowing what causes someone have a a BIG incident that causes s/he to abandon them when it is pretty much unanimous the other way?? I don't get it What happened to smartin to cause this behavior?

I'd rather not get into it at this late juncture. But it left a permanent dislike for the whole radio thing.

[dengel]

I think we all need to keep in mind that any larger sized group will be made up of many individuals, and that each individual comes with their own set of skills, attitudes, preferences and preconceptions. I just want folks to keep that in mind when planning events.

As the old adage goes "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink."

Well you can require every participant in a run to have a radio, GPS, cell phone, etc. And you can hand out maps and cue sheets and waivers until the cows come home. But you can't make anyone listen, talk, read, navigate, etc. Ultimately, people will do what works best for themselves in any given situation.

I personally think to have a quality run, it still comes down to the basic rule of keeping an eye on the road conditions and the cars in front of and behind you.

[smartin]

Originally Posted by dengel

I think we all need to keep in mind that any larger sized group will be made up of many individuals, and that each individual comes with their own set of skills, attitudes, preferences and preconceptions. I just want folks to keep that in mind when planning events.

As the old adage goes "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink."

Well you can require every participant in a run to have a radio, GPS, cell phone, etc. And you can hand out maps and cue sheets and waivers until the cows come home. But you can't make anyone listen, talk, read, navigate, etc. Ultimately, people will do what works best for themselves in any given situation.

I personally think to have a quality run, it still comes down to the basic rule of keeping an eye on the road conditions and the cars in front of and behind you.

I agree. Well said.

[Slowbro]

I been in a lot of clubs and usually nation wide ones are the worst. At first I joined a local car club and we all had a great time. It was numerous diffrent types of cars but we all became friends. When I joined Northwest Evolutions, which is a car club branch off of EvoM.net, generally the meets were small except for ones that were set months in advance and had something everyone could enjoy. Usually consisted of a spirited drive through some twisty roads followed up by dinner at a resturant. The only problem, it was Lancer Evolutions only. Plus there was such amount of drama between who's car is better and who's looks like rice. There was no love.. we weren't friends, we just hung out cause we all had evos.
My motorcycle group was the same in some aspects, it was just to big. People got together just to do knee dragging rides and they didn't care to much about their less experienced fellow riders. People said they show up at events and not show up, just because it rained or some other lame excuse and most of the time not give an excuse at all. Say one wrong thing and people you got along with would spin out of proportion and start hating your guts. One example, someone posted a ride months before it would take place, about 20 people said they go. The people who set it up, put down a deposit on the resurant. Well when nobody showed (mainly do to the appearance of an event that popped up a few days before the deadline dealing with track and dyno runs), and the resturant wouldn't give back the deposit because they called on extra people to support the large group that was expected to arrive. Well when the couple confronted the people on the forum and explained what happened. Nobody cared and nobody even offered to help refund the lost cash they put down. When the husband made a stink about how they got ditched without prior notice, a good number of members turned on them and pretty much chased them off the forum.
This is why big internet meets don't work out. Nobody knows each other, cliches are formed and usually detour new members from wanting to hang out, having the same type of car restricts the number of members and somewhat makes it boring, and distance issue really hinders forming a good friendship with others. Most older people wish to avoid drama and usually do their own thing. Younger people rather hang out in groups till they learn better.
I truly have only found that having diversity, a local group, and mature but energenic people really makes these things work out. A big Sky/Sol meet maybe 4 times a year might work out, but probably less effective turn out then a 1 time a year meet. I rather hang out though with a bunch of guys in civics trying to make it their dream car then a bunch of snooty people who think they are better then the next. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in this forum, cause I don't know anyone yet. Just sharing my experience.

[Celt03]

Slowbro ~
I think you might be a little surprised at the Kappa owners.
Most of the Kappa owners support each other and act more like an extended family.
I have not really witnessed much in the way of jealousy -
mostly people just helping each other figure out how to make thier cars better while still allowing for individuality.
And it is not unknown for us to invite non-Kappas to run with us - the more the merrier.
Hope to see you on a run or meet at some point.

[SkyhighNY]

Originally Posted by Slowbro

A big Sky/Sol meet maybe 4 times a year might work out, but probably less effective turn out then a 1 time a year meet. I rather hang out though with a bunch of guys in civics trying to make it their dream car then a bunch of snooty people who think they are better then the next. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in this forum, cause I don't know anyone yet. Just sharing my experience.

I would love to see your opinion after you have been on one of the runs. I have only been on an few and to me there is nothing more fun than following a group of the same cars. I even go out of my way by 15-30 minutes just so I can meet up with others and drive together.

I really can't explain it to anyone you have to experience it personally. Some people like to be the leader, I just like to hang back in the pack and watch the group. They usually put me up front so I don't get lost but I really love watching the line of cars.

I spend more weekends in NJ with the MASSC crew than I do in my home town! And it's usually a 2-3 hour drive to meet them!

Get to know some people, you may change your mind

[SKY VUE 1]

Originally Posted by Druid-2

Let me make a couple of points here.

NEO's have limited the #cars per group to 8 or less when possible
and all FRS models will work nicely within that distance range.

At SEM I got caught leading 14 cars to RRG because I was the last group and a lot of late arrivals wanted to go. I had Diana in the #7 spot and SV1 at the rear and we were able to communicate quite well..........

I agree 127%. At the back of the pack of 14, I couldn't always hear exactly what has happening ahead (sometimes it was just static because of the distance), but when I heard the static I knew to pay extra attention because something was happening that I needed to know about (bicycle, oncoming traffic, etc.). I can't imagine going on a run without a radio; it's bad enough when I forget to pack the headset!

[solli4me]

All very good and valid points. With regard to radios, after our last MASSC event I came to the realization that radios can be are pretty useless to the people who aren't very familiar with them (like me)

So, if you plan to utilize radios, take the time to instruct your group on how the darn things work. There's dials and buttons and not enough time to figure it all out when you're trying to keep up with a speedy pack. Make sure the radios are on the same frequency or channel. We had some issues in June - couldn't communicate well and my group ended up taking a tour of the Summer Camp for Juvenile Diabetes, altho I kinda enjoyed it.

[dengel]

Originally Posted by solli4me

All very good and valid points. With regard to radios, after our last MASSC event I came to the realization that radios can be are pretty useless to the people who aren't very familiar with them (like me)

So, if you plan to utilize radios, take the time to instruct your group on how the darn things work. There's dials and buttons and not enough time to figure it all out when you're trying to keep up with a speedy pack. Make sure the radios are on the same frequency or channel. We had some issues in June - couldn't communicate well and my group ended up taking a tour of the the Camp for Juvenile Diabetes, altho I kinda enjoyed it.

Well, our run briefing that morning did kinda get pre-empted by the arrival of the local police chasing us out of the parking lot where we were convening that day, which I think did contribute to a bit of the confusion!

We all live and learn from our experiences, right?

[solli4me]

That's right! That Curves lady certainly put the bums rush on us.

[ChiliSky]

Another thing we have talked about this past summer with some big events now over and new ones getting started for next year, Is the people that are new to a run. I know my first run, I felt like a left shoe and did not have a good time at all. It was a small group and they all knew it was my first run but it didn't make a difference. Many of my Sol/ Sky friends have spoken of this at length at every event and so I throw this out to the new people and or ones that did not have a good FIRST time and what would make it better.

I will add that, like the last event we were all so busy, poor KY was getting pulled in 10 different directions and it was hard to do anything else but get done what had to be done.

I tried to spend a bit of time with my fellow Canuckers but I didn't get to spend the time I really wanted to because we has so many irons going. I feel that people need to speak up and say, this is my first run or I don't know many people here. That way we know, if you don't tell us we will think you have been to many and should know people.

So how else can we help the newer people have a great time and get involved in conversations and enjoy the run that they have driven hours to come to?

[dengel]

Originally Posted by ChiliSky

Another thing we have talked about this past summer with some big events now over and new ones getting started for next year, Is the people that are new to a run. I know my first run, I felt like a left shoe and did not have a good time at all. It was a small group and they all knew it was my first run but it didn't make a difference. Many of my Sol/ Sky friends have spoken of this at length at every event and so I throw this out to the new people and or ones that did not have a good FIRST time and what would make it better.

I will add that, like the last event we were all so busy, poor KY was getting pulled in 10 different directions and it was hard to do anything else but get done what had to be done.

I tried to spend a bit of time with my fellow Canuckers but I didn't get to spend the time I really wanted to because we has so many irons going. I feel that people need to speak up and say, this is my first run or I don't know many people here. That way we know, if you don't tell us we will think you have been to many and should know people.

So how else can we help the newer people have a great time and get involved in conversations and enjoy the run that they have driven hours to come to?

I think it is probably a few pages back now, but SkyhighNY had a great idea.

Basically, have a few of the more experienced attendees who are NOT part of the main event organizers volunteer to be a "welcoming committee" of sorts.

I agree with you that the organizers are consumed with the myriad tasks and details of the event and unfortunately don't always have the time to seek out the newbies and make them feel welcome.

A separate sub-committee focused on newbies would be great. They could welcome the newcomers and introduce them around to other attendees. They could also make sure that the newcomers understand how to read the cue sheets, explain how operate a radio, distribute loaner radios to newcomers who don't yet have one, etc.

I think it is a great idea. It could also be a great task for those group members who want to lend a hand but live too far away from the event location to participate in the main planning or be a run leader.

[Druid-2]

good idea

we usually know the newbies in advance..as we compile our list
and we try to encourage them on line to participate as much as they can

[ChiliSky]

DENGEL:Yes that is what KY and I were talking about last night. We are making some changes for next years Dragon and Kim is at the registration desk as well, so her thoughts are to ask if it is their first time and if it is, walk them over to meet some of the returning people, now my fist choice for a welcoming person would have to be BRIAN1969 and his wife Tristy ( better known as passout girl!!) I have never met a more exuberant couple!!!!!
The other is that we ask when they sign up and also ask each person before they come what type of events have they been to and what kind of driver are they.
We also make up name tags for every person and next year there will be a twist on that, but also we could add something to their name tag that helps everyone know that is is their first Dragon......
As the Dragon gets bigger and bigger and T2TR gets bigger and all the other wonderful events for next year and there after I don't want to see the first timers get lost in the events and not have a great time....
So keep on adding here so we can improve how we do things in the future please...........and thank you to those that have already left great ideas and all the pro and cons.

[JRinKY]

First, I am a strong advocate for the use of radios, but I think that their safety benefit is being a bit overstated. Yes, a call-out of "bicycle" (or whatever) can be useful, but it is less likely to tell a group that it is slowing down than why it is slowing down. Assuming that the group is staying together the way it is supposed to.

The real benefit of the radio is getting the group back together, or back on track, when things go wrong. Too large a group, too complicated a route, too congested a route, too many traffic lights, etc will all make it easier for a group to get separated. Drivers that do not understand, or who do not care, how to stay together also make it easier for a group to get separated.

In the bad old days before radios, before GPS, before Google Maps (which I still hate) we did runs with 20 or more cars, and managed to get everyone there and back nearly every time. We did it by paying attention to the car ahead of and (mostly) the car behind us.

The prime responsibility of the driver is not to keep up with the car in front, it is to make sure the car behind is still following, and that is a fact that cannot be stressed enough in the pre-run drivers' meeting.

Our runs are supposed to be fun, but there is a element of serious that has to exist for the fun part to work. Getting run off by the police aside, the drivers' meeting is absolutely critical to a successful run. A good drivers' meeting will explain to the new-comers what is going on, what they need to do, and how best to do it. It will also give them a chance to ask questions and state any concerns that they have. Knowledge of what is going on is the key to making a first experience successful.

Very few of us take the drivers' meetings seriously. Talking, visiting, listening to the stereo, and showing up late all detract from the usefulness of the meeting, and can result in problems for everyone, especially the inexperienced in the group.

During the runs I think there is far too much chatter on the radios, and I have been guilty of contributing to it. Reception is frequently poor, and there is a lot of background noise, so random talking can cause lots of problems and confusion. The only people talking on the radio should be the leader, the sweeper, the relay person if that is necessary, and those who have problems or questions.

That is my speech for the day, thanks for reading.