Sky Club - Tough Decisions

[Ahnuld]

There seems to be a lot of gray area regarding how a club or clubs will be diced up... the metro regions in the north east are so close, it makes for overlaps and tough decisions.

Items being debated

• Sky Club? Kappa Club?
• Delaware Club? Philly Club? Delaware Valley Club? Mid-Atlantic Club? DelMarva Club?

Looking at the Solstice Forums, it looks like they are having similar questions/issues.

Here is my simple proposal...
Under the assumptions that...
... we are all Kappa Brothers at heart and would welcome any and all to participate in our cruises and events.
... that there are more Kappa Kars coming to fill voids in regions.
... and that all great decisions come down to the KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid).

I say we...
1) Stay as a Sky Club for now. Solstice guys are more than welcome to tag along, and they seem very happy to let us come over to thier cruise.
2) We pick clubs based on metro regions (as opposed to state boundaries). Truthfully, once more skys get out on the roads and there are several cruise opps, you may find yourself staying closer to home.
that being said... How about for starters:
Delaware Valley/Philly: Philly, Western Suburbs, South Jersey, North Delaware
DelMarVa: Maryland, Delaware (south), VA (north?)
Tri-State/NY Metro: NY, North Jersey, (Conn?)
Others?

Right now... people are driving 2 hours to go to a cruise mainly cause there are not enough cars in their regions (well that, and the great friends they've made on the board).... And I think we are leaning towards a huge Mid-Atlantic region club because of this. My assumption is that this year or next, there will be enough cruises in each area that people wont have to drive 2 hours to get to the starting point.

Truthfully... I think if go with a Mid-Atlantic level group we will still end up with metro based cruises regardless. I like the Solstice groups "Monthly Cruise" idea, and having a region of Mid-Atlantic makes it too tough to get participation... "This month we are starting in Elkton and going south, Next Month its the North Jersey beaches"...

I'd prefer to acknowledge that we will fall into metro regions (with overlap) and just make groups based on that decision.. Still leaves open the opportunity for people to jump into anyone else's interesting cruises, or events that better match schedules (example: lighthouse cruise). Even if we have seperate metro based groups, we still could have coordinated events "For next month the Delaware Valley Sky cruise will join with DelMarva Sky for a Chesapeake Bay cruise...")

Hopefully there is enough activity this year or next that each metro region is doing its own monthly cruises, and then you can pick and choose "Stay close to home for this month, or my weekend is better to head to the DelMarva Cruise... or.... Crusing Times Square with the TriStaters seems like a great idea..."

Who knows... Maybe all the NorthEast Kappa region groups could then put themselves under the Mid-Atlanic Club name... have a bi-annual meeting. Then we conquer the WORLD!!!!! BWwwaaaaa haaa haaaa!!

So what do you think about my proposal....?

Or am I just putting too much thought into this?

(My apologies for rambling on and thinking about this... while i am a tech guy, my forte the last few years has been cutting through the issues to try and get things done!!!)

Side note.. I mentioned elsewhere... as small as Delaware is, it really is two regions (based on my NJ viewpoint ). North Delaware I think is more associated with Philadelphia, and South Delaware is associated with DelMarVa. The Mason-Dixon line seems to run through the middle of the state!

ok.. maybe I really am putting too much thought into this!!!

[denette]

You put valuable thought into this and in order to create the AZ club we had to raise these same issues. Our distances within the state are the same as the regions you discuss. A couple of other concerns...will the group be independant of the participants...as the cars are sold and early adopters move on can the group continue? Is the group a narrow focus, like autox or carshows to the exclusion of others. We found the synergy of a bunch of people and based it on GM Roadsters for inclusion (sorry Kappa is a frat). Lot's of different activities seems to be one way to provide for the needs of the greatest number of participants. (my wife just scheduled a ride with 50 miles of twisty roads with ...shopping...go figure) Good luck with your efforts....we're having a blast.

[JustMike]

Originally Posted by Ahnuld

... and that all great decisions come down to the KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid).

I really think that you hit the nail on the head with this part. The hammer in that equation would be a regular schedule (side note we have Chris to thank for that in our group and he drives a SKY ).

So keep it simple, keep it regular and don't let perfect become the enemy of progress

[Spag]

Originally Posted by JustMike

keep it simple, keep it regular

I'll drink to that!

er... ya know what I mean!

[Ahnuld]

Originally Posted by JustMike

I really think that you hit the nail on the head with this part. The hammer in that equation would be a regular schedule (side note we have Chris to thank for that in our group and he drives a SKY ).

So keep it simple, keep it regular and don't let perfect become the enemy of progress

K.I.S.S. ... definately the plan!

Further connecting my post and your comment of "The hammer in that equation would be a regular schedule" is that we need to have a defined simple target.... trim off some of the "fat" issues and get to the meat of it!!! (hmmm... lunch time.. Ahnuld hungry).

Once that clear target is defined, then the site, logo, merchandise and events will fall into place!

[JohnD]

Don't know if this helps or not, but at SoCal SKYs we cover a pretty large area, too. We have two-hour-away members, too. But we are just one big, happy club. People set up events and post them to all. Some events are in the north and it takes us south guys a couple of hours to get there. Some events are in the south, and it takes the north guys a couple of hours to get there. Attendance is never mandatory...

If we have a cruise, people pick the roads they know and love. We say "this is where we are going, this is where we are starting from." If that's local to you, great! If not, you can decide if you want to drive a couple of hours to get there, or if you would rather just wait until the next one comes around that is closer to home.

My advice to you, for what it's worth, is to keep it all as one big group, and just make sure that you do drives in each area. Rotate it around, and always publicize to all. That way those that want to drive can and will, and those that would rather stay close to home know where the gang is and what they are up to.

That's how we do it SoCal style. It may or may not work for you...

[ctyankee]

Originally Posted by Ahnuld

Or am I just putting too much thought into this?

Yep!

"The more casual and inclusive, the better," says I. Don't want anyone thinking they can't participate because they aren't part of a region.

[CountryGirl]

Some of us are not really in metro areas. The Northern Virginia group is close enough, but if it were rolled into the Delmarva group, we would have to skip most rides.

[Ahnuld]

Originally Posted by shenvalley

Some of us are not really in metro areas. The Northern Virginia group is close enough, but if it were rolled into the Delmarva group, we would have to skip most rides.

You could start one near your home base, also?

Actually... I think you are supporting my point. Population wise, and car wise... we have a bigger voice in the Philadelphia, Delaware or DelMarva areas. So if it was just left as one big group in the Mid-atlantic states, will your suggestions for cruises be lost in the mix? If you had 4 sky guys in your area, and we have 30, and everyone is suggesting cruises... chances are the 30 arent gonna head to rural Va too often... leaving you with a 2 hour ride to start with. If you had a focused group closer to home, you may find it easier to pull in people as your core monthly cruises will be in your neck-of-the-woods, and whenever you want you could jump into another cruise.

This is the important distinction of my point...
If a sky guy is in rural VA... and they run into a fellow sky driver at the 7-11. What would be more successful in getting to particpate in cruises?
a: "i am in a Midlantic Cruise group. They have cruises in Philly, Delaware, NY... Most times it can take 2 hours to get there, but its a lot of fun when ya finally meet up with them"
or
b:"We meet locally every month usually within 30 minutes of our area, and then every few months we head out further to another clubs cruise up in the Philly area. Its also cool, cause at times we get people stopping in on our cruises."

..at 10,000 feet, the regional/metro groups may seam selfish... but truthfully I am pitching it for the benefit of the guys further on the edges of the core Mid-Atlantic population base.

I have extra respect for CTYankees opinion as he is one of the guys I am considering when I mention the 2 hour drive, and he says keep it one big group.

For me...I live 5 miles from Philly, 30 from Delaware, so whether its MidAtlantic as one, or seperate regions... i'll still have mucho cruising opps!!

Debate is still in its early stages... can't wait to read other opinions!

[CountryGirl]

Originally Posted by ctyankee

"The more casual and inclusive, the better," says I. Don't want anyone thinking they can't participate because they aren't part of a region.

Actually, I probably feel more this way.

I'm a tech girl, and yes, you are probably putting too much thought into it. I've been told I over-analyze everything, but you have me beat by a mile!

[skyfan]

Our OKI metropolitan area is quite a way removed from our Great Lakes NE Ohio/PA group or the South Eastern States group. I am in the process of forming an OKI Kappa group here in the Ohio Valley which is in between. So far I have heard from about 15 folks, mostly Skys and a couple of Solstices who want to form a group. My feeling is that there is plenty room for local clubs who do not have to drive five hours to meet up for a drive. It is fine if you want to do that and I plan to do just that. However, In order for a club to have success, members should get together at least once a month to have a drive and or meeting. I don't see that happening if you have to drive more than 2 hours or more up and 2 hours or more back with a spirited drive in between. Often then, a motel overnight is required. That doesn't work too well when there are kids and animals with which to be concerned . If anyone from the Greater Cincinnati area who is interested & has not already contacted me , please email me with your information.

[Ahnuld]

Originally Posted by shenvalley

Actually, I probably feel more this way.

I'm a tech girl, and yes, you are probably putting too much thought into it. I've been told I over-analyze everything, but you have me beat by a mile!

Hah! just a mile? let me analyze that.

I'm a techy who has to weed through a lot of high level ideas from the biz to get an understanding of what it is they want me to do for them. The classic "Didn't we already discuss these same items in 5 other meetings and nothing was decided on" recursive mess is something I live with daily, and try to avoid!

So reading the posts about the clubs for this area... my "let's cut to the chase" brain just kicks in!

See.. there I go again!

[Ahnuld]

Originally Posted by skyfan

Our OKI metropolitan area is quite a way removed from our Great Lakes NE Ohio/PA group or the South Eastern States group. I am in the process of forming an OKI Kappa group here in the Ohio Valley which is in between. So far I have heard from about 15 folks, mostly Skys and a couple of Solstices who want to form a group. My feeling is that there is plenty room for local clubs who do not have to drive five hours to meet up for a drive. It is fine if you want to do that and I plan to do just that. However, In order for a club to have success, members should get together at least once a month to have a drive and or meeting. I don't see that happening if you have to drive more than 2 hours or more up and 2 hours or more back with a spirited drive in between. Often then, a motel overnight is required. That doesn't work too well when there are kids and animals with which to be concerned . If anyone from the Greater Cincinnati area who is interested & has not already contacted me , please email me with your information.

see... see... dats what I'm tawkin' about!!!

[dengel]

Originally Posted by Ahnuld

see... see... dats what I'm tawkin' about!!!

Ahnuld, I say if you have enough local interest then concentrate on a local club. The Delaware folks have done an excellent job of this and have good attendance for their monthly events. IF you are fortunate enough to have dedicated folks concentrated in a localized area, go for it.

Not all areas will be able to do this. I know solli4me and I have had a bear of a time trying to organize our MASC club, due to the fact that folks really are very spread out. (That's why solli, Kipp and I have been travelling to the Delaware events, not a lot of local interest from folks close to home.)

I think the biggest challenge is to find people willing to commit the time to organizing events for your club, regardless of how big a geographical area is covered.

I am currently trying to run a Northern NJ/NY event and a Southern NJ/Shore Region Lighthouse Event, simply because no one else is offering up ideas.

Good luck to you in however you organize. As long as you keep the events open to guests, I'm sure you'll have some great times.

[richm]

Yep, keep it small, and encourage other clubs to get formed in other cities within driving distance. Tucson is 90 miles south from Phoenix, and currently, we have six Tucson members in our Phoenix club, but at some point, we hope they form their own club so we will have twice as many options every month. We also want the Flagstaff/Sedona folks to create a club too (90 miles north), because we LOVE driving up there! With three clubs in our state, we would have lots of events to choose from. With just one club trying to plan events for an the entire region (like MASC or West Coast Kappas), it requires a lot more work and dedication to make everyone feel "included." So, don't overreach unless you have enough manpower.

As far as SKY versus Sky-Sol, we started out as two separate clubs, a SKY club and a Solstice club, both unstructured, both with just a handful of members. After a couple of joint rides, we decided to merge, which cut our workload in half because we were each already prepared to do everything on our own.

Club names and scope are going to change after you get started, and boundaries are going to get redrawn over and over. I bought a first year Miata, and I joined six Miata clubs in two years as the various local clubs sprang up, evolved, and many died (either because of local/regional turf wars or lack of leadership or organization, or in one case, the leader moved, and in another, he sold his car). There is room for both a local and regional club (like Philly and MASC), but turf wars may pop up if two regional clubs overlap.

Also, don't create a Kappa club unless you are truely plugged into the "other guys," or they will feel like "red-headed stepchildren" in your club, or you will quickly get lost in their numbers. In our club, membership is almost 50/50, but on rides, when the balance is sometimes 70/30, or the Skys are in front and Sols in back, we still notice. We talk about the "red headed stepchild" concept a lot in our meetings, but it is all in good humor because we really go out of our way to make everyone feel equal and welcome, even those poor guys with the smaller 2.0 liter engines .

[CountryGirl]

Originally Posted by Ahnuld

The classic "Didn't we already discuss these same items in 5 other meetings and nothing was decided on" recursive mess is something I live with daily, and try to avoid!

I feel your pain. Luckily, I only have one project where that tends to happen. Unfortunately, each of those 5 meetings tends to last all day long!

Once a month is actually too frequent for me. Combine that and the small number of Kappas in my immediate area almosts dictates that I be part of a larger club. In our case, the Northern Virginia club wouldn't be too far away (about 1 hour). Plus, if they're going to run to Skyline Drive or West Va, I can just drop out and go home on the way back.

IMO, it would be best to form groups informally, then formalize when you are getting enough participation with whatever shakes out.

[Ahnuld]

I thought I was done on the subject.... (well, I am really)
But I just caught this post when looking at "Most Recent Posts"

Crimson avenger in Cali is doing basically what I was suggesting (although at the Kappa level). Looks like he even has it organized much more than i was even thinking as he is tracking events, but...

Check out post
West Coast Kappa Car Club Events Schedule 2007
they even have a blow-out map of the districts.

Anyway... no biggie... as I mentioned, there will be plenty o' cruises for us all, especially where I am located... so its no big issue if we just "kinda go wid da flow!"