Hard Top Discussion

[C20LET_50]

Originally Posted by brentil

20k Sols + 10K Sky + 5K Opel GT is really only 35k cars per year (at best). It would take 3 years to reach ~100,000 Kappa cars ....

brentil I can't agree,

up to May 2006 total Kappa production was 19,723 Sols and 3,305 Skies, total ~ 23,000 cars, thereof ~ 20,000 delivered.
May production 2,135 + 1,151 = 3,286. If production only stays at that level (Lutz even talked about enhencing production) that are ~ 40,000 cars/year. Therefore it takes only two years up from now to reach the first 100,000 Kappas.

GXP/RL ramp-up should be no problem in quantities because there is no difference at the line to put in engine A or B, same with the suspension, the exhaust and the other changed parts.

Anyways, rick112 is absolutely right: the problem is not the number of produced Kappas, only the number of owners who are willing to buy a hardtop counts.

[ineedmorebotox]

Originally Posted by C20LET_50

brentil I can't agree,

up to May 2006 total Kappa production was 19,723 Sols and 3,305 Skies, total ~ 23,000 cars, thereof ~ 20,000 delivered.
May production 2,135 + 1,151 = 3,286. If production only stays at that level (Lutz even talked about enhencing production) that are ~ 40,000 cars/year. Therefore it takes only two years up from now to reach the first 100,000 Kappas.

GXP/RL ramp-up should be no problem in quantities because there is no difference at the line to put in engine A or B, same with the suspension, the exhaust and the other changed parts.

Anyways, rick112 is absolutely right: the problem is not the number of produced Kappas, only the number of owners who are willing to buy a hardtop counts.

I am willing!!! I would love to have a hard top. I like the idea of having lots of options and it really changes the look of the car in the photoshop pics. It would be nice in January, February........

[rick112]

I guess the answer to how many people would purchase hard tops might be answered by the Miata crew. The car is similar in many ways including price. That car comes with an optional hard top so how many of them purchase that option.

[SPooN]

This is from DodgeTalk

I think about 1500+ Vipers are produced each year. For 1992-2002 a little over 17,000 total were produced, but the new Viper isn't selling as well due to the non-exciting design of the body compared to the Gen I and Gen II Vipers of '92-'02.

This is from ViperAlley

I combined all RT10’s,GTS’s and ACR’s for each year (they were made) for the Viper

Total production

Yr - Vipers Produced
92 - 285
93 - 1043
94 - 3083
95 - 1577
96 - 1887
97 - 1788
98 - 1216
99 - 1463
00 - 2007
01 - 1978
02 - 1622
Viper Total = 17949

and im assuming half of them have been totaled by unexperienced drivers and probably another 1/3 are hard tops allready so that would cut the numbers down even less..

I work with a shop on my GTO that has been creating hardtops for the Vipers for the last 10+ years

Id show this shop the production numbers from of how many have been made so far compared to the vipers and how many more are to be made and see what they say..


so going off those 2 post i found it looks like the Kappas have out numbered the Vipers in total in just within the first year

The numbers are there so lets get a hard top made..

[Axel]

An interesting lack of positive reception in Europe for the retractible hardtop to be offered on the Miata in September:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...1/TOC01ARCHIVE

That will leave only the Sol & Sky without a powered top (at least as an option in the Miata's case)... oh well, it's nice to be different!!

[marklynn70]

Originally Posted by C20LET_50

There are different none-racer-solutions possible all with a usable trunk. They are extrem different in design, depends on the personal taste of the customer:

Coupé-Style

Attachment 3166 Attachment 3167

Roadster-Style

Attachment 3168

Station-Wagon-Style

Attachment 3169 Attachment 3171

Just pictures up to now, maybe manufacturers think there isn't enough demand in the market as topperge mentioned in his post.

Looking at these pictures leads me to consider that you will have to mount a new satellite antenna on the new roof for your OnStar and XM. Just something else to think about when making your decision to upgrade.

[C20LET_50]

Originally Posted by marklynn70

Looking at these pictures leads me to consider that you will have to mount a new satellite antenna on the new roof for your OnStar and XM. Just something else to think about when making your decision to upgrade.

Thats true for the Coupé-Style and the Station-Wagon-Style types of hardtops where the hood of the trunk we be replaced.

With the Roadster-Style hardtop (photochoped by REDSKY) the hood will not be replaced. This solution is the easiest in handling and all antennas can be used as before.

[topperge]

Originally Posted by SPooN

Id show this shop the production numbers from of how many have been made so far compared to the vipers and how many more are to be made and see what they say..

The numbers are there so lets get a hard top made..

SPooN,
I've talked to them and they know the numbers in sales are there...their problem is that they are heavily involved in Viper racing and there is a huge need for the hardtops there. They aren't sure if the need is there for the Kappa crowd. I left the phone number for Autoform in one of my previous posts, you can also email them @ sales@autoformgroup.com and keep pressuring them. If we prove to them the need them I'm sure they'll build it.

Matt

[theirishgonzo]

all i would say is have one made or make a mold off a club racer hard top and modofy it. i think the top squared off with sharp lines to match the bonet and boot.

[dans]

Woohoo.. first post.

OK, so I'm pondering a SkyRL or a Sol GXP (or MX5) and would be beating the tar out of it on track days. Most of the places I go now mandate me to have either a hard top or a roll bar. Some "safety hoops" count but I would rather not have to talk my way through tech ev ery time I go out to play.

I know what sort of support I can expect with the MX5 but would end up needing to make a ton of upgrades to the MX5 to match RL/GXP power. As such I would like to once again drive an american car and this could be it.

[KappaMan]

Originally Posted by C20LET_50

Lil GTO,

out of my point of view (here from Germany) we have a lot of rims fit on the Kappas because that 5x110mm bolt pattern is used by Opel for long years.

In my opinion it's better to use winter tyres in the smallest version which will fit, for example if you want to hold the outer diameter nearly constant

Summer: 245/45x18 > Ø = 678 mm (26.68 inch)

Winter-a: 225/55x17 < Ø = 679 mm (26.74 inch)

Winter-b: 205/60x17 < Ø = 673 mm (26.49 inch)

Winter-c: 205/65x16 < Ø = 664 mm (26.16 inch)

I personally would prefer version b or c (if 16 inch will fit, we had a dicussion here some weeks ago).

The corrosive effect should not be a problem if you use special aluminium winter rims (we have in Germany, but don't know the situation in USA).

I bet you'd do fine with these:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....e1=yes&place=3

same size as current.

I bet you a coffee that 17" and 16" wheels will contact control arms or tie rod ends during high steering angle turns or when the wheels are in full droop (like on a hoist).

[Lil GTO]

Originally Posted by KappaMan

I bet you'd do fine with these:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....e1=yes&place=3

same size as current.

I bet you a coffee that 17" and 16" wheels will contact control arms or tie rod ends during high steering angle turns or when the wheels are in full droop (like on a hoist).

Good suggestions - I am currently leaning towards keeping my 96 Civic (needs a bit of work) as a winter car and leaving the Sky in the garage in the winter. Now all I need to do is 1. buy a Sky, 2. find somewhere else to store my GTO.

[Blue Sky]

Originally Posted by dans

Woohoo.. first post.

OK, so I'm pondering a SkyRL or a Sol GXP (or MX5) and would be beating the tar out of it on track days. Most of the places I go now mandate me to have either a hard top or a roll bar. Some "safety hoops" count but I would rather not have to talk my way through tech ev ery time I go out to play.

I know what sort of support I can expect with the MX5 but would end up needing to make a ton of upgrades to the MX5 to match RL/GXP power. As such I would like to once again drive an american car and this could be it.

I just sold a 178 HP Mazda speed MX5 to get the redline. I loved the MX5 but the 2006 version is not that great. Sit on the passenger side and the transmission moves into the foot area. Styling looks bad even compared to the 2004/2005 models and is nothing compared to the SKY. SKY Redline puts them all to shame. Though I must admit I like the new facia on the GXP from the front. From the side it looks like a bug.

SKY RL....GO SKY RL.

Blue

[dans]

Looks and style are really not on the list of things I care too much about. I can't see what the car looks like from the drivers seat and I could care less what others think of my car.

I am currently beating the tar out of a VW TDI for the reason that it will make a ton of torque and get 45mpg while doing it. I can't think of any other way to have a quick, fun to drive car that makes 300+ft/lbs and still turn decently well but I have had to make so many mods to it that its not really going to get any better. I need a better chasis with less weight and better balance. As such I am looking here.

I may end up going with an early Miata for the simple reason that it meets my needs and has limitless aftermarket. The downside is that the chasis is a bit cramped and my big wide country butt needs as much room as it can get. I would also love to come back to a domestic car but thats another story.

I also think folks were talking about winter tire combos...

If you want the best snow tire available go with a nokian hakkapeliitta snow tire. I work with a pro rally team that runs at the SnoDrift rally every year and these are the hot tire time after time. The old school blizzaks also do well and may come in more sizes.

[Jordan]

Problem is, these cars just really hit the market now... I think the aftermarket will be there in a year or so, but immediate future, the MX5 may be the better option for you.

[dans]

The MX5 is also new. It does have the old cars performance heritage to surf on as well as the Spec Miata thing to get the aftermarket moving in a hurry. The Sky/Sol has some strong points however and are pretty much even up with the MX5 in many regards. I would have liked to see these cars be a little lighter but other than that they seem pretty solid.

I also like the stout short block that they are building the RL on. The direct injection will make it hard to shoehorn a lot more performance out in the short term but torque (which I love) and economy should not suck.

Now if they would just make a coupe version with an upper door sill that ran into the roof line like the old GT40s to aid in entry and exit and clean up the sight lines a bit they could put on some carbon body parts, put the battery in that little trunk, put some real dampers and brakes on the car and then take aim at cars like a the Cayman and leave the MX5 sucking fumes.

[C20LET_50]

Originally Posted by KappaMan

I bet you'd do fine with these:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....e1=yes&place=3

same size as current.

I bet you a coffee that 17" and 16" wheels will contact control arms or tie rod ends during high steering angle turns or when the wheels are in full droop (like on a hoist).

That are the types of tyres like that Dunlop Winter M3 you've good driving performance in cold, wet and snowy conditions. Also Bridgestone, Conti, Michelin and other have good ones.
I prefer the smaller tyres, because they don't shove a "hill of snow" in front of the tyres so easily where the car can't climb up. Smaller tyres with higher profil will require the smaller rims.
I looked at the pics again:

Normally the nearest to the rim is the caliper, there is a lot of space to the inner side of the rim. With the Kappa suspension is seems the downer control arm is nearest to the rim but I think there is also more then half of an inch free distance. I can't measure myself but maybe someone who's got their car already can do.
If there is a free space of a thumb all around the smaller rim will fit - New rule of thumb
Anyway KappaMan how can you guarantee the coffee isn't cold when arriving in Germany

[topperge]

So no one wants a top? I talked to Autoform today and they said they haven't heard anything from anyone here. Too bad because their stuff for the Vipers is beautiful.

[ineedmorebotox]

Originally Posted by topperge

So no one wants a top? I talked to Autoform today and they said they haven't heard anything from anyone here. Too bad because their stuff for the Vipers is beautiful.

I tried to email them without success. Can you post their contact info ????

[topperge]

Originally Posted by ineedmorebotox

I tried to email them without success. Can you post their contact info ????

sales@autoformgroup.com or 616.392.4909