Who else is SERIOUSLY autocrosing?

[snaponbob]

Come on. Who is really autocrossing? I am really getting my RL sorted out and it shows. It's time to start sharing information. I don't want to be the ONLY RL at SCCA Solo Nationals in September.

[Antonio]

there's a guy on the sol forums (RobL) that seriously autox's his GXP. I think he actually took the A stock class too.

[GetAboutRL]

ya, most of us Kappa owner's seem to be just ordinary, but interesting, above average souls.

Now you are taking us to a whole new upper level!

[Daywalker]

Will not be doing Nationals this year, but hope to have the car sorted by the beginning of next year. That is unless you need a co-driver. I have a lot left to do at this point. I only have tires and alignment done to date. I feel I can be somewhat competative at the Divisional level at this point. Still getting use to the car, my performance is up and down right now.

[KimberlySky]

So exciting!!!!!

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by Daywalker

Will not be doing Nationals this year, but hope to have the car sorted by the beginning of next year. That is unless you need a co-driver. I have a lot left to do at this point. I only have tires and alignment done to date. I feel I can be somewhat competitive at the Divisional level at this point. Still getting use to the car, my performance is up and down right now.

Saner has a stiffer front bar. Koni will have shocks in early September. I installed Hawk pads and I am switching back to the stock pads. My front bar is modified to allow repositioning of the lower link. This stiffened the effect bar rate and helped. I have done a couple other things that worked well. (PM for details.) I plan on 295 A6's on OZ's, and Saner bar before Nationals. Hopefully the shocks will be in as well. I just wish second gear was longer.

It has taken a LOT of runs to get comfortable with the RL, but it's all starting to come together. Locally there are some VERY fast guys in a C4 and S2000's. At the beginning of the season I was 1-2 seconds back from the top five and now I am in the middle of them. Bar, Konis, and 295's with still more seat time should put me with the fastest S2000. Topeka Mid-Divs are in a couple weeks. We'll see.

[TulsaSky]

Originally Posted by snaponbob

Come on. Who is really autocrossing? I am really getting my RL sorted out and it shows. It's time to start sharing information. I don't want to be the ONLY RL at SCCA Solo Nationals in September.

After that Slalom run in my 64 Sunbeam Alpine during the May 12 Jaguar hosted Euro Extravaganza I can say the auto-crossing could be very addictive. I for one had a blast and my poor old Alpine made it through several runs without something breaking or overheating. It will take years of practice before I will be good enough not to embarrass the Saturn Sky RL group. So you go Bob and make us proud at the Nationals
I need to see when our local SCCA has a open autocross. Taking the Sky RL would be awesome and for those that are not sure about all of this, just to have the chance to learn how to control/steer/slam on brakes will make you a better daily driver.

TulsaSky

[SkySoldier]

Kind of depends on your definition of seriously. I will be autoxing at roughly 22-23 events this year. However, they will be regional, and I will be going after the local street tire class. At least for a while.

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by SkySoldier

Kind of depends on your definition of seriously. I will be autoxing at roughly 22-23 events this year. However, they will be regional, and I will be going after the local street tire class. At least for a while.

That would seem to be pretty serious. I hope you have a spare set of rims and some real good 140 wear rated tires. There are a bunch of sticky 140 tires but some REALLY hate the heat, and you sure do have heat. All the same tricks for C/S Z0K's and A/S GXP/RL's hold true for non R-comps. An agressive alignment is god for 1.5-2 seconds on a 50 second course and represnts the best return on investment on a Kappa without any negative effects. The other fantastic investment is the 2 day Evolution school.

So, drive it like you stole it and report back how you are doing.

[SkySoldier]

Originally Posted by snaponbob

That would seem to be pretty serious. I hope you have a spare set of rims and some real good 140 wear rated tires. There are a bunch of sticky 140 tires but some REALLY hate the heat, and you sure do have heat. All the same tricks for C/S Z0K's and A/S GXP/RL's hold true for non R-comps. An agressive alignment is god for 1.5-2 seconds on a 50 second course and represnts the best return on investment on a Kappa without any negative effects. The other fantastic investment is the 2 day Evolution school.

So, drive it like you stole it and report back how you are doing.

Will do. And yes, I have a second set of wheels with Falken Azenis RT615s in 275/35-18 mounted. I also have a very agressive alignment. And thanks for the encouragement.

[KappaMan]

I've heard folks getting really decent results by installing the base front stabilizer bar. Might give it a thought. Supposed to help the turn in and loosen the car a bit.

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by KappaMan

I've heard folks getting really decent results by installing the base front stabilizer bar. Might give it a thought. Supposed to help the turn in and loosen the car a bit.

DON'T do it. I have already done it. It will INSTANTLY turn an RL into a drift car. I lost about a second on a 50 second course. The car will lean SO much that even with -1.75 deg rear camber the rear outside will go positive. I have seen pictures of my car with the FE2 bar on it and it looks terrible. I have an FE2 bar, links, bushings, and brackets that I will gladly sell for $50 for anybody that wants to make the same mistake. That said, I did learn to better control my car but it was an Evo school and 2 events of flailing elbows before I switched back. Since then I have adjusted my driving style further and modifying my FE3 bar to stiffen it, which has helped. It seems counter-intuitive, but it's better. I have ordered a Saner adjustable front bar (so far the only available stiffer front bar) and, based on a GXP driver on the Sol forum who has a Saner, it will help further.

If anybody wants to talk about autocrossing, or setting up, an RL I would be happy to yak with you. Remember, it's easy to learn from someone else's mistakes than to make them yourself!!! PM me and we can exchange numbers.

[KappaMan]

I wouldn't say DON'T do it - what works for one driver might not work for another.

Alls I know is dat taking a GXP (maybe the slightly different weight distribution has something to do with it) and putting on Hoosiers, -2 1/2 or so front camber, and -1.5 rear camber, the people that put the base front bar on seemed very happy and dropped time significantly. The car was definitely looser - this may not work for all drivers.

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by KappaMan

I wouldn't say DON'T do it - what works for one driver might not work for another.

Alls I know is dat taking a GXP (maybe the slightly different weight distribution has something to do with it) and putting on Hoosiers, -2 1/2 or so front camber, and -1.5 rear camber, the people that put the base front bar on seemed very happy and dropped time significantly. The car was definitely looser - this may not work for all drivers.

I sure would like to know who they are. A lot depends are what the improvement was based on PAX times. An Evo instructor has driven my RL before the swap, and during the swap. The time differential between us was the same. That leads me to believe that my assessment is correct. One thing for sure, Nationals will tell. I truly believe that no GXP/RL will be up top with an FE2 front bar. If so, I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I will copy anybody that can do better than me. NO ego issues here.

[tav]

How did you modify the FE3 bar to become stiffer?

I went to a local autox event last weekend and the front felt very unresponsive (lots of lean) and the back felt loose thru the slaloms. It felt pretty good before I put the A6 (175) on. I was running 33psi in the front and 35psi in the back. With a front camber of -2.5 and -1.5 in the rear. There were over 200 drivers at this event so we only had 3 runs each. I did not play with the tire pressure any.

I'm going to another event this Saturday supposed to get 8 runs each. any tips are greatly appreciated.

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by tav

How did you modify the FE3 bar to become stiffer?

I went to a local autox event last weekend and the front felt very unresponsive (lots of lean) and the back felt loose thru the slaloms. It felt pretty good before I put the A6 (175) on. I was running 33psi in the front and 35psi in the back. With a front camber of -2.5 and -1.5 in the rear. There were over 200 drivers at this event so we only had 3 runs each. I did not play with the tire pressure any.

I'm going to another event this Saturday supposed to get 8 runs each. any tips are greatly appreciated.

First, what is "A6 (175)"? Did you mean 275/35X18?

Your pressures are WAY to low. You should be glad you only had 3 runs. Take a look at this --


Tire Pressure Recommendations for Competition

Traditionally, Hoosier tires have often required higher pressures than other brands. This has changed with the A6/R6.
Roadrace/Track Applications
Vehicle
Size Recommended
Pressure ........ Hot ..... Cold
1800-2200 lbs 34-37+ 26-31
2200-2600 lbs 35-38+ 27-32
2600-3000 lbs 37-41+ 27-32
over 3000 lbs 38-43+ 27-33

+ Higher pressures will improve the performance capability but will require a more sensitive feel to take advantage of the increase.

One characteristic of the tires is the tendency to "skate" initially (when inflation pressures are correct). It is important to resist lowering the pressure to attempt to eliminate this feeling. Dropping the pressure too far may improve the "feel" of the tire however it will also lower the performance and increase the wear rate.

Autocross Applications

For autocross applications, your starting pressure for the first run should be within 1-2 psi of the recommended hot pressures shown above. After the first run and each subsequent run, keep resetting the pressures back to your target hot pressures before taking the next run. This way your tires are at the proper pressure during the bulk of every run you take.

Tire Temperature Recommendations

For best performance the expected temperature range will vary from track to track. Generally, optimum traction will be generated when the pit lane temps show 180-200 degrees for the R6 in Roadrace applications, and 140-150 degrees for the A6 in an Autocross application.

Chassis Setup Recommendations

For optimum performance the tires will require around 3 degrees of negative camber. There will be a trade-off in maximum performance to maximize wear. Generally 1/2 degree less than optimum will result in the best compromise for wear and speed. Less than 2.5 degrees can result in excessive wear on the shoulder junction.

The tires should offer better performance with spring/shock rates that are higher than previous brands you may have run.

I am running -2.25 camber front/-1.75 camber rear. I have been running 245/35X18 A6s and have settled in at about 43f/39r pressures. The car is a basic understeerer. Once the front has hooked up, the rear can be broken loose with power. The pressures you were running were WAY low, and thus the tires were rolling over badly, and thus nothing was hooking up. Raise the pressures to about what I have shared and the car will come alive.

You did not state which Sky you have. If it's 2.4, it will lean like a drunk. You can legally install an FE3 front bar, but can not change the rear bar or springs. When Konis come out in mid September that too will help. If you have Redline, there apparently are NO stiffer front bars readily available. I do expect a Saner front bar this week, which is about 30% stiffer, and have no idea what may happen to the handling. I will have to adjust my driving to the bar. Ditto on the Konis. I drilled new 1/2" holes about 7/8" forward of the stock holes on the FE3 bar. It did stiffen the front bar, but it is NOT a good solution based on what I saw as the angle of the link. It was just an experiment and it helped some.

So, to sum it up ------ don't change anything until your get the pressures up where they should be and get used to it. Good luck, and I HTH.