I had talked to Dave at Werks about this back when I first had mine up and running. We just never got back around to working out the details. Honestly, I'm not sure it would be that big of a money maker since the cost of parts and labor would be somewhere around $500. ZZP is already selling their 5th injector kit for that price, it's easier to install, but (don't get me started!) it's horrible in actual operation. So how much more would people want to spend for a GOOD design, that would entail a little more labor to install? I'm betting the Cobalt guys, ZZP's target market, would buy the cheapest kit, no matter how it worked. It also absolutely needs to be tuned for the 5th injector, and it has to be somebody that knows how to do it. How much are guys gonna be willing to pay for that? Trifecta couldn't do it for any amount of money. (Do it right I mean.) So now you're up to trying to sell a new intake manifold, with the 5th injector already installed, a controller and tuning services to get it dialed in. Twice your $500 number would be more like it, and I'm just not sure how many guys out there would see the value in it. The value is ABSOLUTELY there, in my opinion it IS the fix for the LNF fueling issues, but would others see it as being worth that much money? IDK. That's why I'm not into marketing or sales!!! That's also why I decided to just turn this info loose for whoever wanted to build their own kit, and help anyone out with making it work. I'm not making a dime here, sometimes it makes me question my sanity! I firmly believe in Karma though, so I'm getting it back tenfold anyway.
Cleaning the valves isn't that hard, but obviously everything is relative. So let me compare it to some common tasks... It's harder than cleaning a throttle body. Easier than changing brake shoes on a drum brake car. (any of those left?) Harder than changing spark plugs or changing oil. WAY easier than changing an LNF water pump. Does that help? Really all you have to do, once you have the intake off, is get a tooth brush and a couple cans of brake clean or carb cleaner. Work on the valves that are closed, that way you can pool up the cleaner and not worry about filling the cylinders with liquid and gunk from the valves. Use the plastic end of the tooth brush to knock off the big chunks, and use the brush end to scrub off the rest. If you have compressed air available, I put a rag over the port, and then blow air into the port to clean out the brake cleaner and gunk. Do that a few times and it will all be nice and clean. Crank the motor around to get the other cylinders valves closed and work on those.
I would rather spend a little more personally. I have talked to forty about this and now after reading all 21 pages i now understsnd why this is better. I have beard from several different people that the zzp 5th inj was garbage but didnt know why until now. Its not really that its garbage as it uses a lot of the same stuff that you guys are using, it is just mounted in a poor location. But then again they designed it to be "bolt on" cause most cobalt owners want the "easy" way to do things.
I'm not getting into a argument or anything. I was just answering Jebs question with data. Thought you could piggyback on it. Believe me I really don't want anymore HP than what the 2871 will give me since my application will be for track which you have 140hp miatas taking out GTR's. I'm going to have to learn to handle that power and be effective with it and in turn be competitve.
Wish there was a like button for this comment
Unfortunately I think I'll be skipping this upgrade. I have the hardware but I had a buddy(ASE master tech) warn me of the dangers of using this. He told me that for a drag racing application this would be fine but for the track(open road racing) the motor would eventually be damaged as cylinders 1 & 4 would be starved of fuel in longer operations. He refuses to have me put it on my engine(he's building it). He said he would come here and explain.
This is the case of zzps design placement. As you described to me the placement being directly centered above the tb is crucial.
I must say it is great to read threads with people posting helpful information rather than the bickering pissing matches that occur elsewhere.
I am turboswapping here soon with a zzp t3mani (already have...would love a pwerks mani but oh well lol) and custom dp, lines, etc. still havent picked a turbo yet but am going for 400-450 dd street tune (wherever i can be safely on stock motor) and a race tune at 500ish. I had planned on getting the ttr intake mani as well but have since learned that fmsr has 3 designs in the works that will be ready next month. Now im debating whether to even swap the im at all.....ughh...
Im gonna have to hang out here more often and learn some more
Im chris btw