Air Conditioning Noise

[RealGomer]

Well, this seems to be common problem, so I thought I'd start this thread.
First, GM apparently knew of this problem back in July, 2006. Go to this link and look at post #3. http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=20058

What I'm going to try to do, if the Forum Master will allow it, is post copies of my emails and phone calls to Saturn and my dealer. If I can figure out how to do it, I'll try to post some place a tape recording of the noise. I'll let every one know when and where. Names will be deleted to protect the guilty, I mean innocent. So, from today, July 6, 2007:

"Sky was screaming tonight on the x-way, and I don't mean blowing the doors off 'Vettes and Maitas (although it does). So, I swung by King's Saturn and lo and behold, Service Manager Chris Moore was there. Both on duty Techs listened to the sound and said it seem right. Chris rode with me and he heard it plain as day. We then took the same circuit in a demo Sky with auto tranny. Barely audible, if at all. He said three other customers have been in with the same problem and he's been told to not do any more part swaps. He said one car had three compressors installed and the problem stayed. Fascinating. GM better do something. "

[RealGomer]

From my email account:

"Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 14:22:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RE: Regarding My Saturn Responsefrom owner
To: e-mail@saturncars.com

If you wish, and I certainly hope you do, pass this message along as well.
I was cruising home tonight on I-71 at about 67 MPH with the radio on at volume level 16 and a semi in
front of me. I could hear the "normal" A/C noise over all of that.
I'm very close to utilizing this service of Ohio: http://www.ag.state.oh.us/citizen/co.../lemon_law.asp

--- Saturn Customer Assistance Center <e-mail@saturncars.com> wrote:

Thank you for most current e-mail. We have forwarded this to your area manager and it will be added to your current documentation.

Please feel free to e-mail again if you may have anything further to add.

Cordially,

P------- A.
Saturn E-Mail Consultant

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 07/03/2007 15:35:07
To: e-mail@saturncars.com
Subject: RE: Regarding My Saturn Responsefrom owner

(Area Rep) left a message on Tuesday and I spoke with him at around 4:25. He said he was waiting for a call back from ----- -----, Service Manager for Kings / Beechmont Saturn. ------ said he'd try to get back
to me by the end of business on July 5. I'm usually home by 4:15 ET.

--- Saturn Customer Assistance Center e-mail@saturncars.com> wrote:

Thank you for your reply to my e-mail.

We have forwarded the information you provided to an area manager for review. The area manager works from this office in Tennessee and will serve as your liaison with the facility. He or she will closely review your situation.

You should be contacted by phone before noon Central Standard Time tomorrow, Tuesday, July 3, 2007. If you cannot be reached at ###-###-#### during the day, please respond with any other numbers which
would assist the manager in contacting you.

If you have any additional questions or comments, please feel free to e-mail us again or call us at 1-800-553-6000, prompt 3.

Sincerely,

M----- S.
Saturn Customer Assistance Center

Sent: 06/30/2007 22:34:08
Subject: RE: Regarding My Saturn Response from owner

Saturn Customer Assistance Center e-mail@saturncars.com> wrote:

We appreciate the time you have taken to write to Saturn.

I want to first apologize for the concerns that you have had with your Saturn's air conditioner and the time that it has taken in getting these concerns resolved. We want to do what we can to assist you. I have started by documenting your e-mail. Your reference number is #-########. So we may assist you further, please reply back with answers to the following questions:

What is your Saturn's VIN? 1G8M-------12546

Which Saturn retail facility did you visit? King's Saturn

Have you spoken to the service manager at your Saturn retailer? Yes - He says it's normal.

Did you have the repairs performed at a Saturn retail facility? Yes - 1st Visit New Compressor; 2nd visit new support bracket per service bulletin; 3rd visit nothing, said it was normal, all Skys make that noise. (Can you say LEMONade?)

Note: I have a tape recording of the noise. When I played it at the service desk, another tech from six
feet away came over and wanted to know what the awful noise was.

This additional information will allow me to properly document this matter and help me understand how we can further assist you. Thank you for giving us this opportunity to address your concerns.

If you have any additional questions or comments, please feel free to e-mail us again or call us at 1-800-553-6000, prompt 3.

Sincerely,

M----- S.
Saturn Customer Assistance Center

Sent: 06/29/2007 14:31:15
To: e-mail@saturncars.com
Subject: Regarding My Saturn

DATE: 6/29/2007
TIME: 15:31:15
SUBJECT: Regarding My Saturn
MESSAGE: My Sky, with 10437 miles, have been have a problem with the A/C. After it's run for for 10-15 minutes, the A/C starts whining, shrieking, growling, choose your verb. When I press the temp button to turn off the A/C the noise stops. Turn on the A/C, it screams. One dealer is claiming that's normal. My dealer is not satisfied with that answer and is doing more investigation. The Sky I demo'd was quiet as a kitten. The Aura I'm borrowing is too. As are our 98 Voyager (150K+), '00 Corolla (73K+) and both of my daughters’ cars."

[Rick Tinley Park]

If the A/c making noise is normal -- then I better get my quiet one fixed...

[xmicro_Redline]

My AC is completely quit so far, although I only used it 5 times!

[nscrbug]

Unfortunately, I am ALL too familiar with the growling/howling/moaning A/C compressor noise. Had the compressor in our base Sky replaced last November after waiting nearly 3 months for the new compressor to come in. Was told it was a brand new design and much improved over the original one...HA!!! Could have fooled me! It makes just as much racket as the old one did. Not one bit improved, if you ask me. Lucky for us, we will be trading our base in when our 08 R/L arrives in a few weeks. I sure hope they have addressed this issue on the 08 models...cuz, I won't be happy if we end up with another Sky that moans and groans (so loud that you can hear it over the radio blasting!) while running the A/C.

[coopcj7]

My sky goes in on tuesday for the ac compressor whining. I didn't notice it until I used it for the first time at nationals. It has 34000 miles on it so I need to get it fixed before the warranty runs out

[RealGomer]

Hopefully, this link will work.

http://public.box.net/batsky

I have stored here an mp3 file that's about 2:30 long. The sounds were recorded from inside my Sky using a Sony microcassette recorder, so don't expect Deutsche Grammophon quality. I held the recorder off the dash by the plastic center piece with the mic facing towards the cowl.

Not all of the tape is that loud, but about 1:30 in it really shrieks. All recording was done at the same volume level.

[Rick Tinley Park]

Originally Posted by RealGomer

Hopefully, this link will work.

http://public.box.net/batsky

I have stored here an mp3 file that's about 2:30 long. The sounds were recorded from inside my Sky using a Sony microcassette recorder, so don't expect Deutsche Grammophon quality. I held the recorder off the dash by the plastic center piece with the mic facing towards the cowl.

Not all of the tape is that loud, but about 1:30 in it really shrieks. All recording was done at the same volume level.

I have to confess - it pretty much sounds like teh inside of my SKY without the A/C on! All I heard was normal traffic and engine/shifting/exhaust noise...
Not to say the A/C isn't loud -- just nothing jumping out of that file...

[RealGomer]

Did you listen to the entire file? I don't know about things in your corner of the world, but in Ohio, road noise does not shriek, whine, or howl. I constant rumble or hum from the tire noise, yes. There are a couple sections on that file that are quite loud and obnoxius and it isn't from any road noise or shifting. And since I learned how to drive a manual on a 5-ton stake truck, I don't shift unless absolutely necessary, and my shifts occur at around 2500 RPM.

[RealGomer]

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/s...ditioner+noise

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/s...ditioner+noise

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/s...ditioner+noise

Must be a platform problem. My Sky was built in September, 2006.

[Barry]

I'm in. Our Base Sky started makeing the noise at just over 5k...took delivery in mar 06...my RedLine again started doing it at just about 5k..took del Sept 06. The service manager and Sr tech both have reported the complaint to Saturn and as of today...nothing. It is embarassing and it tick's me off. Four of my friends now have Redline's and guess what..thay all do it. If I can help...let me know.

[Rick Tinley Park]

Originally Posted by RealGomer

Did you listen to the entire file? I don't know about things in your corner of the world, but in Ohio, road noise does not shriek, whine, or howl. I constant rumble or hum from the tire noise, yes. There are a couple sections on that file that are quite loud and obnoxius and it isn't from any road noise or shifting. And since I learned how to drive a manual on a 5-ton stake truck, I don't shift unless absolutely necessary, and my shifts occur at around 2500 RPM.

I'm sorry -- listened to it most of teh way -- Shriek Nope -- nothing.. Whine -- I can hear engine rev but whine... no... Howl? Sorry... I'll try it again...


Ok I listened to it -- in particular 1: to 2 minutes ...
I guess what I think is a nice set of headers -- is this your A/C? With all the noise -- really can't make one thing out...

[RealGomer]

@Rick Tinley Park -
Stock car except for Wind Restrictor laser etched screen. No headers and that's not road noise. That's A/C noise.

@All -
Saturn Customer Service called and said I should go to another dealer, one not related to my selling dealer. (FWIW - This dealer group has been around since Hector was a pup. And growing.) I went there today and played the tape to their service manager. He wrinkled his brow and said something was wrong. We took a drive and as soon as he started the car he got a puzzled look on his face. He blipped the throttle a couple times and said he's heard some compressors before but never one as loud as mine. We took about one mile drive and he just shook his head saying the noise was not right and should not be there.

He and I talked for a bit and he said he had repaired another Sky with the same, albeit quieter, problem by replacing the Pressure Relief Valve (?) in the A/C line. This valve regulated the pressure between the liquid line and the gas line. I let him know the compressor had been replaced and the service bulletin applied. He said he was going to do some more checking, but he was leanin g towards the valve.

I did let him know about this thread and the comments by Mr. Padilla. Who knows? Maybe it will become a Shhhhky instead of bye-bye Sky.

[Rick Tinley Park]

Originally Posted by RealGomer

@Rick Tinley Park -
Stock car except for Wind Restrictor laser etched screen. No headers and that's not road noise. That's A/C noise.

.

After carefull reconsideration then YIKES!!
I though all the Banshees were in Ireland!

[LeloSKYLANM]

Originally Posted by RealGomer

Hopefully, this link will work.

http://public.box.net/batsky

I have stored here an mp3 file that's about 2:30 long. The sounds were recorded from inside my Sky using a Sony microcassette recorder, so don't expect Deutsche Grammophon quality. I held the recorder off the dash by the plastic center piece with the mic facing towards the cowl.

Not all of the tape is that loud, but about 1:30 in it really shrieks. All recording was done at the same volume level.

I recognize that noise, mine started at 2400mi Could not reproduce noise at dealer, going back this week. Good luck.
LSL

[coopcj7]

mine was checked a the dealer and they said it was normal. I wanted to throw it at them. We went outside to the 2.4 and redline that they had on the lot started them up and they both had the same noise. these cars are brand new they stated. I didn't have much to go on after that

[BlackSkyRL]

I took delivery of my Sky Redline on March 31st of this year and began noticing the same racket / wooshing sounds in my AC system about a month or so ago with about 4000 miles or so on the odometer. Three weeks ago I took it in to my Saturn Dealer (very good people thus far) and had the shop manager go for a drive with me to hear the noise. Before we left the parking lot he admitted that things did not sound right and proceeded to drive about 2 miles to see what else he heard. All of the loud / abnormal sounds happened during our drive and he said before we got back to the dealership that he would be ordering a new compressor. About two weeks later the compressor was replaced and the AC sounded normal for about 2 days before the same obnoxious noises returned! I have been reading other posts regarding this issue and now must assume that there is either a flaw in the compressor design itself or other critical component in the AC system. I noticed in this thread that someone had mentioned a pressure relief valve as a possible cause and I'm going to bring this up with my shop manager in about a week when I return from vacation. At this point I am really beginning to worry because it seems this issue is happening on a lot of cars and I don't understand why Saturn hasn't diagnosed the issue well enough to come up with a permanent fix by now. If anyone else has any insight PLEASE let me know because I love my SKY but simply CANNOT deal with this annoying issue indefinately. Just to clarify the noises I've been hearing I notice very shortly after warm-up a "clattering" sound in the compressor itself that progressively worsens the longer the operation time and then intermittently I hear a sound similiar to what you would hear if sucking liquid through a straw. I am no mechanic but it definately sounds to me like the system is struggling to maintain pressure in the coolant system and manages to catch up after a moment. I understand the basic principles of air conditioning systems and know that the coolant changes between a gas and liquid state depending on what part of the cycle is occuring. It definately sounds like it is during the liquid phase that the coolant is "filling back up" in the lines. I've also noticed that the "whooshing" sound generally (but not exclusively) occurs immediatley following coming to a stop.

Also, and I may be imaginging things, I seem to notice that as the compressor noise increases my SKY begins to lose more power during acceleration. I'm wondering if the compressor is putting a heavier load on the engine as a result of this issue. I'm also wondering if the compressor will eventually fail / lock-up and cause the drive belt to burn up while spinning around the compressor's siezed pulley.

That's about all I've got but must express my disappointment that such an issue is occuring on a new vehicle in a system that is nothing new or advanced and simply should not be so difficult to repair.

Please provide any feedback that you may have that could be valuable in diagnosing / resolving the problems many of us seem to be experiencing.

Thanks very much!!!

Tom

[Dktrwu2]

Add me to the loud and malfunctioning air conditioner club!

My Sky's been at the dealership for the last 3 days waiting for a compressor replacement. I didn't realize it was this common a problem, have they issued a service advisory on this?

[TOY4TWO]

can you source an AC compressor from another vehicle in GM lineup, or even from another company, car parts are made globally these days and might fit, I can't say I've ever had a problem with any AC compressors in any roadsters I've ever owned, so I can't imagine what could be causing the racket. It sounds like GM went with the lowest bidder on this part, like the differential and the seat foam supplier.

http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-Your-Car's-Air-Conditioner