Educating the ECU

[rufusmacblorf]

There have been a lot of posts referring to the Redline ECU "learning" and adapting its parameters. I didn't see any other posts dedicated to exploring this topic.

What is the ECU learning, anyway?

How long does it take to learn?

What is it adjusting?

Is this a Jessica Simpson to Stephen Hawking transformation, or just a few minor tweaks?

Does it keep learning throughout its lifecycle, or is this just a "first 50 miles" thing?

[fr0stb1t3]

Originally Posted by rufusmacblorf

There have been a lot of posts referring to the Redline ECU "learning" and adapting its parameters. I didn't see any other posts dedicated to exploring this topic.

What is the ECU learning, anyway?

How long does it take to learn?

What is it adjusting?

Is this a Jessica Simpson to Stephen Hawking transformation, or just a few minor tweaks?

Does it keep learning throughout its lifecycle, or is this just a "first 50 miles" thing?

The ECU is learning constantly through it's life cycle. It has a certain set of expected parameters and a certain set of tables to modify to keep the engine within those parameters.

If you put a freer flowing/better intercooler on, it will adjust itself for the fact you now have more dense air coming in and keep the torque within the Bosch specified limits of 260 lb.ft of torque. This explains why our cars produce similar to stock power (usually total output doesn't change the torque just comes on quicker and smoother) no matter the mods until the ECU has been tuned to a new target parameter.

Adjustments made can vary wildly from adding/subtracting a little fuel to increasing or decreasing the boost depending on the density of the air outside.

There should be no reason for a Jessica Simpson to Stephen Hawking style transformation, but the tweaks do their best to keep the car running at factory specified performance levels. It can do this as quickly or as slowly as you "populate" the data tables. Their are tons of tables to populate and you will eventually populate most of them through standard driving, the ones you don't populate are ones you don't ever hit so the ECM doesn't need to know anyways.

[rufusmacblorf]

Thanks, fr0stb1t3. I thought this thread would spur more discussion than it has. Oh well.

[BSRL]

The truth is most of us don't know what the hell the ECM is doing or why and no one has cracked it completely. Maybe that's why GM hasn't released their tune yet because they don't even fully understand what the hell they created.

[rufusmacblorf]

Originally Posted by BSRL

The truth is most of us don't know what the hell the ECM is doing or why and no one has cracked it completely. Maybe that's why GM hasn't released their tune yet because they don't even fully understand what the hell they created.

[compdoc777]

I come from the land of tunable ECU's. The stock ECU does not learn, but follows parameters set in the ECU on the stock Tune. Now the ECU does learn its adjustment settings and constantly adjusts airflow, fuel, throttle body, cam timing, idle, but it still follows set guide lines in the ECU.
Now when you have a modified ECU that can be adjusted you can adjust any of these settings and even add settings that were not there to begin with.
Basic ECU mods we have are Westers, BSR and HP tuners. Westers and BSR adjust a few settings in the ECU, but are far from a fully adjustable tune. I think HP tuners have some adjustability, but not like the Kpro where you have full ability to change any setting.
If you want to explore OBDII parameters then go here and download the K manager software.
KManager Software
It will show you all the parameters that are in an OBDII ECU for the K-Series motor which is one of the most advanced ECU’s on the market to bad they are only for Honda.
If Hondata decided to do ECU’s for other car makers besides Honda/Acura they would put every ECU tuner out of business.
Read up on the the Kpro can do. I know it has nothing to do with our cars, but the ECU’s are functionally the same as our ECU. In fact you could take that Kpro ECU and hook it up to our motor making sure all the wiring connections were in the correct places and run our motor with the ability to add just about any tuning combination you wanted. I am not saying it would be easy to figure out all the wiring, but it is possible.
The only thing the car learns usually is the automatics they will learn your driving patterns and adjust to your driving style, but I don’t know if that is part of the ECU or not or if it is another system in the car.
Our ECU’s are not self aware or anything they are just computers that run on a set of instructions that can be reprogrammed within specific limits.

[JRinKY]

rufusmacblorf : There have been a lot of posts referring to the Redline ECU "learning" and adapting its parameters. I didn't see any other posts dedicated to exploring this topic.
What is the ECU learning, anyway?
How long does it take to learn?
What is it adjusting?
Is this a Jessica Simpson to Stephen Hawking transformation, or just a few minor tweaks?
Does it keep learning throughout its lifecycle, or is this just a "first 50 miles" thing?

The ECU is learning about its current driving conditions. Move from Death Valley to Denver, and it will adjust to the thinner air. As you go from winter to summer, it adjusts. Switch from premium to regular fuel, and it will adjust to keep from the engine from self-destructing. Switch back, and it will re-adjust to give you back the power you lost.

It has always been presumed that a blank set of trim tables will be filled faster, so the practice has been to remove power from the ECU to erase it when performing a performance mod. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, but disconnecting the power is a good idea when working on the car anyway, so, why not ?

[SKY888]

Originally Posted by compdoc777

If Hondata decided to do ECU’s for other car makers besides Honda/Acura they would put every ECU tuner out of business. .

bro....what's up? How's the car? how about your rsx...already sold it?

anyways.......how about Motec, Haltec, AEM?

I love Motec.......that was installed in my turbocharged civic before. My other buddy who got a 700whp civic also installed a more expensive Motec....and really got the most out of his car.