Having problems starting car when adding fuel

[GeniusInABottle]

My Sky Redline has been having a rather odd problem for the passed couple of months now, and the techs at 2 different dealerships haven't been able to fix it.

It seems that whenever I add gas, the start immediately after takes an extended period of time. Sometimes it's about 10 seconds, sometimes more. The car will eventually start, and every start after that is fine until I add more fuel so it's definitely related to adding fuel.

Also, it does this with or without the BSR tune, so it's not that.

Help!

[Bogie]

The next time you fill up, don't start your car straight away.

1. Engage the ignition key to the accessory position.
2. Cycle through you DIC and note whether or not the display showing miles left has been updated.
3. Leave the car in accessory position for about 30 seconds.
4. Turn key to off and remove key.
5. Wait until the interior lights go off.
6. Now try and start the car normally and report back.

[LANDSCAPE]

Are you "topping off" the tank?

If you try to squeeze a little more into it after the pump automatically shut off, you may be getting fuel into the emission system through the vent / vapor tank (charcoal box to keep fumes from polluting the air)

But then, I might be totally wrong.

[GeniusInABottle]

Originally Posted by Bogie

The next time you fill up, don't start your car straight away.

1. Engage the ignition key to the accessory position.
2. Cycle through you DIC and note whether or not the display showing miles left has been updated.
3. Leave the car in accessory position for about 30 seconds.
4. Turn key to off and remove key.
5. Wait until the interior lights go off.
6. Now try and start the car normally and report back.

Thanks Bogie, will do.

[GeniusInABottle]

Originally Posted by LANDSCAPE

Are you "topping off" the tank?

If you try to squeeze a little more into it after the pump automatically shut off, you may be getting fuel into the emission system through the vent / vapor tank (charcoal box to keep fumes from polluting the air)

But then, I might be totally wrong.

I've had this suggested before. This happens both when I fill up completely, and when adding only minimal amounts of gas, so I don't think that's it.

[GeniusInABottle]

Bogie,

I did what you suggested. The miles left number was indeed updated upon adding fuel, and after doing the steps in the order you listed the behavior was the same.

[Mandi]

There is a bulletin out that takes about the terminals in the UBEC....inspecting for bent terminals and replace two connectors.....would think they would of chek or done this....what has Saturn done for this concern?

[gadget]

Have any of the dealerships pulled the fuel pump out of the gas tank. Sounds kind of like you may have gotten a bad tank of gas.

[WishfulThinking]

Just out of curiosity, it might be interesting to try just removing the gas cap and putting it back on, and see if the gives you the same problem. I believe they normally operate with some vacuum in the tank. It might not like having that vented (although I'm not sure what that would point to as the problem).

[Bogie]

Originally Posted by gadget

Have any of the dealerships pulled the fuel pump out of the gas tank. Sounds kind of like you may have gotten a bad tank of gas.

I would say they should look at the fuel pump, but not necessarily because of bad gas. The symptom occurs after each fill up. Something may be happening on fillup that disturbs the pump in some way so that it's not feeding properly, or is triggering a sensor message to that effect.

I have no idea what sensor feeds the computer gets from the fuel system, but I can guess there are probably several sensor feeds back to the ECM, and I would guess all need to be "green" before the electronic ignition starts the fuel flowing for a start. It's plausible the start initiation is waiting for the fuel sensors to all go "green", and either the sensor or the pump itself isn't delivering. Sometime over the ten or more seconds of start attempt, the pump (or sensor) is back in spec, the ECM gets a "green", and the car starts.

This is pure speculation, but based on the fact the problem is cause after a fill up, and the one thing in the tank that can be affected by a fillup is the fuel pump.

[gadget]

Originally Posted by Bogie

I would say they should look at the fuel pump, but not necessarily because of bad gas. The symptom occurs after each fill up. Something may be happening on fillup that disturbs the pump in some way so that it's not feeding properly, or is triggering a sensor message to that effect.

I have no idea what sensor feeds the computer gets from the fuel system, but I can guess there are probably several sensor feeds back to the ECM, and I would guess all need to be "green" before the electronic ignition starts the fuel flowing for a start. It's plausible the start initiation is waiting for the fuel sensors to all go "green", and either the sensor or the pump itself isn't delivering. Sometime over the ten or more seconds of start attempt, the pump (or sensor) is back in spec, the ECM gets a "green", and the car starts.

This is pure speculation, but based on the fact the problem is cause after a fill up, and the one thing in the tank that can be affected by a fillup is the fuel pump.

I'm thinking the screen on the end of the suction tube of the fuel pump may be substantially plugged. Saturn fuel pumps used to have a check valve on the discharge side of the pump that could have something in it.( I don't know if they still have the check valve or not) High octane fuel used to destroy it.

[JRinKY]

I have seen this behavior as well, but not related to fueling the car. It seems mostly related to "hot restarts" and is almost exclusive to having the air conditioner switched on.

[GeniusInABottle]

Got this fixed finally. For those of you looking this problem up for future reference, what needed replacing in my car was the purge solenoid. Hopefully this will be useful to you/your mechanic.

[MEGAS]

yeap,
i did have the exact same symptoms with the addition of a cel "P0459
Evaporative Emission Purge Solenoid Control Circuit High Voltage".
I did change this purge solenoid valve and so far all is ok.

[GaryH]

Originally Posted by GeniusInABottle

Got this fixed finally. For those of you looking this problem up for future reference, what needed replacing in my car was the purge solenoid. Hopefully this will be useful to you/your mechanic.

Thanks for the heads up. Any idea what the purge solenoid does and how it works?

[Mickey]

hopefully someone with a manual will chime in and tell us

[MEGAS]

Originally Posted by GaryH

Thanks for the heads up. Any idea what the purge solenoid does and how it works?

Here is a photo of this valve.
It is connected with a canister that collects vapours and with the help of vacuum it throws vapours again in the intake manifold to be burned again.

For more info..
Ford Non-Enhanced Evaporative Systems: How They Work

[Bogie]

I wonder how this works with DI, seeing as we don't normally have fuel vapor in our intake manifold? If vapor is dumped in the manifold during valve overlap, then it goes right out the tailpipe unburned (or gets to combust in the exhaust channel). Not to mention possibly triggering all sorts of 02 sensor issues as it bounces down the back side.

Anyone know how a DI engine handles this dump of fuel vapor into the manifold?