Just some questions...

skys_the_limit · 09-09-2005, 12:43 AM

What are the 2 holes on the top cover on the back of the car?...Should i wait to get the redline?

andrewplanet · 09-09-2005, 01:03 AM

The two holes are where the roof latches into the top when it is up. I recommend you search the forum next time as there is a wealth of information that has been already posted. As for waiting for the redline... that is a personal choice that only you can make. If 177hp and a 0-60 of 7.2secs is not fast enough for you then by all means wait for the redline.

Delnari · 09-09-2005, 10:53 AM

Agreed! If you will not be happy tooling around in a good looking car that has average sport performance than you should wait for the Redline. Most people will being buying this car for it's look and fun factor; gulp, like the MX-5.

Sorry for the comparsion...

skys_the_limit · 09-09-2005, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewplanet

The two holes are where the roof latches into the top when it is up. I recommend you search the forum next time as there is a wealth of information that has been already posted. .

My Apologies I am new to the forum

Fformula88 · 09-09-2005, 10:59 PM

Welcome to the forum!

Base Sky, 177 HP

Turbo Sky, 250+ HP (no confirmed number yet, but it should be at least 250 based on different reports we have seen)

Take your pick. Depends on how much performance you need, and how much you can afford.

SkyHawk · 09-10-2005, 07:43 PM

I just hope the Red-Line's engine doesn't have that gawd-awful turbo lag.

Fformula88 · 09-10-2005, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyHawk

I just hope the Red-Line's engine doesn't have that gawd-awful turbo lag.

Me too. With the 250+ HP numbers that are rumored, I am concerned that it may be very peaky. However, it really depends on the displacement, size of the turbo, and how quickly it spools up. If the engine makes decent torque just off idle, and the turbo is small enough to quickly spool up, lag should not be bad at all. Lets hope!

DuSpinnst · 09-10-2005, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fformula88

Me too. With the 250+ HP numbers that are rumored, I am concerned that it may be very peaky. However, it really depends on the displacement, size of the turbo, and how quickly it spools up. If the engine makes decent torque just off idle, and the turbo is small enough to quickly spool up, lag should not be bad at all. Lets hope!

Why, lag can be good. If you want to get better MPG you just stay off the boost. I prefer the boost to kick in at about 2500-3000 RPM

Delnari · 09-11-2005, 01:24 PM

Motor Trend has reported the new turbo engine for the Redline and GXP version with be a 2.2L engine. Take a look at the new 2006 EVO IX, it now has 286 hp and 289 ft. lbs of torque from a 2.0L engine. Hell, if Japan can boost this much power from a small 4 cylinder engine why can't the largest car manufacturer in the world?

brentil · 09-13-2005, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delnari

Motor Trend has reported the new turbo engine for the Redline and GXP version with be a 2.2L engine. Take a look at the new 2006 EVO IX, it now has 286 hp and 289 ft. lbs of torque from a 2.0L engine. Hell, if Japan can boost this much power from a small 4 cylinder engine why can't the largest car manufacturer in the world?

Ah come on man, are you really going to believe what a magazine has to say. That's almost like believing a dealer.

We've officially got zero official information about a GXP/RL even existing at this point unfortunately. Only things we've seen for sure are the modified Solsti and the prototype looking turbocharged version. Hoping we get some bones thrown our way at SEMA this year, but I'm not expecting anything official till NAIAS 2006.

theirishgonzo · 09-13-2005, 02:03 AM

yes a boost that kicks in at 2500-3k is a good thing. when you normaley drive it you stay out of the boost and when want to get on it you stay in the boost. driveing a tt stealth. you have to slip the clutch not to bog the turbos. but when you do the thing is a beast. and it olny has 320 hp. and is 3500lbs or 4k i think.

DuSpinnst · 09-13-2005, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brentil

Ah come on man, are you really going to believe what a magazine has to say. That's almost like believing a dealer.

We've officially got zero official information about a GXP/RL even existing at this point unfortunately. Only things we've seen for sure are the modified Solsti and the prototype looking turbocharged version. Hoping we get some bones thrown our way at SEMA this year, but I'm not expecting anything official till NAIAS 2006.

The Mules exist, weather or not they are going to go into production is another story. There are rumors now even of a 2.8 V6, basically the base CTS/9-3 Aero Drivetrain, which isn't too shabby. Especially if they throw a turbo on it like the Saab 9-3 Aero has.

skyster · 09-13-2005, 03:45 AM

the prob with having a turbo that hits boost WAY early in teh RPM is that midway you have run out of steam. TQ is what makes a turbo so much fun. power (i mean HP) in MY book is the side effect. you get HP but its the TQ that gives you that stuck in teh seat feeling. if you put a turbo that spools to quickly then half way through your driving you loose that hard pull and now your just in the hp range. its fun and all but like i said earlier TQ is the best part of a turbo. however speaking form experinace, if teh throttle is indeed electronic then dont be surprised if you cant drive the car like youd want to. stupid electronics mite kick in and take some of teh fun out of the turbo. if it senses wheel slip it may close the throttle without your consent to try and regain control. i have worked both sides of teh engine mods and i gotta say turbo is fun and as an add on its great but when teh factory says its does such and such, i wouldnt do it. simply because they will go with the cheapest turbo and sometimes cutting corners like that locks the real potential away., but all motor is less headaches. if i approve of the design ques on teh redline body kit then ill get it but i would not spend close to 30k on .2 smaller displacement turbo car. i'll stay all motor and make TQ that way. other then that all i gotta say is "hurry up and come out already. i wanna drive my sky"

kingarthur · 09-21-2005, 12:55 AM

"I recommend you search the forum next time as there is a wealth of information that has been already posted."
You can't search for something like that with keyword, and reading all of the posts is unrealistic. The poster was correct in asking the question.

kingarthur · 09-21-2005, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delnari

Motor Trend has reported the new turbo engine for the Redline and GXP version with be a 2.2L engine. Take a look at the new 2006 EVO IX, it now has 286 hp and 289 ft. lbs of torque from a 2.0L engine. Hell, if Japan can boost this much power from a small 4 cylinder engine why can't the largest car manufacturer in the world?

Making more power is such a simple thing that a small child could do it -
that's not the issue - you have to warranty the car. How much are you going to have to beef up the drivetrain to handle the power reliably? Will the
car rob sales from another car, one that has a higher profit margin(Corvette, for example).

kingarthur · 09-21-2005, 01:18 AM

"you get HP but its the TQ that gives you that stuck in teh seat feeling."
So many people don't understand torque or horsepower. Horsepower is
a unit of work, torque is a unit of force. Torque is measured at all RPM levels, and horsepower is calculated from those torque values using
the formula HP = Torque X RPM X C (a constant).
The rated horsepower of an engine is the maximum calculated
horsepower. Obviously, the maximum torque will be found at an RPM level less than the RPM level where the max horsepower is found. For two engines with the same horsepower, but one has a lower torque, that engine will make less horsepower than the other at most of the RPM levels lower than that at which max horsepower is found. Engines in which the torque and horsepower
are nearly equal are characterized as "peaky" engines, with a relatively narrow power band, and one that is found at high RPM levels.

SkyCaptain · 10-01-2005, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingarthur

"you get HP but its the TQ that gives you that stuck in teh seat feeling."
So many people don't understand torque or horsepower. Horsepower is
a unit of work, torque is a unit of force. Torque is measured at all RPM levels, and horsepower is calculated from those torque values using
the formula HP = Torque X RPM X C (a constant).
The rated horsepower of an engine is the maximum calculated
horsepower. Obviously, the maximum torque will be found at an RPM level less than the RPM level where the max horsepower is found. For two engines with the same horsepower, but one has a lower torque, that engine will make less horsepower than the other at most of the RPM levels lower than that at which max horsepower is found. Engines in which the torque and horsepower
are nearly equal are characterized as "peaky" engines, with a relatively narrow power band, and one that is found at high RPM levels.

This is the most errored description of hp and tq I have ever read.

You really need to take a step back.

achieftain · 10-06-2005, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyCaptain

This is the most errored description of hp and tq I have ever read.

You really need to take a step back.

I agree. You measure horsepower but you feel torque.

aloch · 10-22-2005, 02:34 AM

Kingarthur is correct in his writeup of torque and HP.

However, HP is what counts, along with gearing. The resultant torque that you feel is a factor of your HP and the effective gearing of the vehicle. So reported ENGINE torque isn't as important as HP.

theirishgonzo · 10-25-2005, 12:40 AM

tork is what gets you out of the hole. my alero has 200 torque and 170 hp but has alot more than the 2.2 4 with 160 hp and 140 torque. i like a v6 or a turbo v6 the 4 bangers i drove were all top end and you could not spin the wheels with out popingh the clutch or netrual drop for the auto. but with v6 you can just roast them. exept in a awd car.

SkyCaptain · 10-27-2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aloch

Kingarthur is correct in his writeup of torque and HP.

However, HP is what counts, along with gearing. The resultant torque that you feel is a factor of your HP and the effective gearing of the vehicle. So reported ENGINE torque isn't as important as HP.

You and Kingarther need to educate yourselves.

If you're anywhere near me my 280hp 340tq GTP will gladly school you.

aloch · 10-27-2005, 11:43 PM

OK school us with your 280 HP GTP vs 177HP, you're right, no contest. But go to school on what HP is. Also recognize that crankshaft torque isn't torque at the wheels as this is affected by gearing (thus it being a very popular mod to change diff gearing to a higher numerical ratio). As said before, the resultant torque at the wheels is what counts and this is what you feel. This is always a product of HP and gearing!!

HP is what counts!

I think what you are defending is drive feel. If you drive a automatic (slushbox, boring, for really oldguys and uncoordinated people), then a nice slow revving, high torque at low rpm engine is extremely nice, good throttle tip in feel when your transmission is in the wrong gear. But in a sportscar it's a different story.

Finally, ever notice that in the discussion of fast vehicles it boils down to power to weight ratio and not torque to weight!!!!

SkyCaptain · 10-28-2005, 02:48 PM

If horsepower is what counts, then why am I spanking 300hp mustang gt's at every rpm? And crushing 400hp hondas? Because of the torque, numbnuts.

And notice that my car weighs more than the cars's I'm racing, and I have a worse horsepower to weight ratio...

Not that I'm knocking horsepower. They are BOTH measurements of a car's ability. But really the comment I was dissenting with was where Kingarthur described cars with comparable hp & tq curves as "peaky", which is entirely untrue. My hp and tq curves are very comparable, and it's definately not "peaky".

Now go be stupid somewhere else.

P.S. don't even go to gearing, I'm well versed in gearing. And the gearing in the gtp is worse than a mustangs, so you've got no excuse there either.

09-09-2005, 12:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
skys_the_limit First 2000 Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 10 My Photos: (0)	Just some questions... What are the 2 holes on the top cover on the back of the car?...Should i wait to get the redline?

09-10-2005, 07:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
SkyHawk First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 109 My Photos: (0)	I just hope the Red-Line's engine doesn't have that gawd-awful turbo lag. __________________ ......."Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --- Albert Einstein .............. 2003 BMW Z4 2005 Saab 9-2X

09-13-2005, 03:45 AM	#13 (permalink)
skyster First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 52 My Photos: (0)	the prob with having a turbo that hits boost WAY early in teh RPM is that midway you have run out of steam. TQ is what makes a turbo so much fun. power (i mean HP) in MY book is the side effect. you get HP but its the TQ that gives you that stuck in teh seat feeling. if you put a turbo that spools to quickly then half way through your driving you loose that hard pull and now your just in the hp range. its fun and all but like i said earlier TQ is the best part of a turbo. however speaking form experinace, if teh throttle is indeed electronic then dont be surprised if you cant drive the car like youd want to. stupid electronics mite kick in and take some of teh fun out of the turbo. if it senses wheel slip it may close the throttle without your consent to try and regain control. i have worked both sides of teh engine mods and i gotta say turbo is fun and as an add on its great but when teh factory says its does such and such, i wouldnt do it. simply because they will go with the cheapest turbo and sometimes cutting corners like that locks the real potential away., but all motor is less headaches. if i approve of the design ques on teh redline body kit then ill get it but i would not spend close to 30k on .2 smaller displacement turbo car. i'll stay all motor and make TQ that way. other then that all i gotta say is "hurry up and come out already. i wanna drive my sky" __________________ i think i'll call my SKY anakin. cuz when im done with it, it will have joined the darkside of the force.

10-28-2005, 02:48 PM	#23 (permalink)
SkyCaptain First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Fairmont, WV Posts: 71 My Photos: (0)	If horsepower is what counts, then why am I spanking 300hp mustang gt's at every rpm? And crushing 400hp hondas? Because of the torque, numbnuts. And notice that my car weighs more than the cars's I'm racing, and I have a worse horsepower to weight ratio... Not that I'm knocking horsepower. They are BOTH measurements of a car's ability. But really the comment I was dissenting with was where Kingarthur described cars with comparable hp & tq curves as "peaky", which is entirely untrue. My hp and tq curves are very comparable, and it's definately not "peaky". Now go be stupid somewhere else. P.S. don't even go to gearing, I'm well versed in gearing. And the gearing in the gtp is worse than a mustangs, so you've got no excuse there either. Last edited by SkyCaptain : 10-28-2005 at 02:56 PM.

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09-09-2005, 01:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
andrewplanet First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 59 My Photos: (0)	The two holes are where the roof latches into the top when it is up. I recommend you search the forum next time as there is a wealth of information that has been already posted. As for waiting for the redline... that is a personal choice that only you can make. If 177hp and a 0-60 of 7.2secs is not fast enough for you then by all means wait for the redline.

09-09-2005, 10:53 AM	#3 (permalink)
Delnari First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Japan Posts: 554 My Photos: (1)	Agreed! If you will not be happy tooling around in a good looking car that has average sport performance than you should wait for the Redline. Most people will being buying this car for it's look and fun factor; gulp, like the MX-5. Sorry for the comparsion...

09-09-2005, 10:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
Fformula88 Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 723 My Photos: (0)	Welcome to the forum! Base Sky, 177 HP Turbo Sky, 250+ HP (no confirmed number yet, but it should be at least 250 based on different reports we have seen) Take your pick. Depends on how much performance you need, and how much you can afford.

09-11-2005, 01:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
Delnari First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Japan Posts: 554 My Photos: (1)	Motor Trend has reported the new turbo engine for the Redline and GXP version with be a 2.2L engine. Take a look at the new 2006 EVO IX, it now has 286 hp and 289 ft. lbs of torque from a 2.0L engine. Hell, if Japan can boost this much power from a small 4 cylinder engine why can't the largest car manufacturer in the world?

09-13-2005, 02:03 AM	#11 (permalink)
theirishgonzo First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: outside of detroit Posts: 205 My Photos: (0)	yes a boost that kicks in at 2500-3k is a good thing. when you normaley drive it you stay out of the boost and when want to get on it you stay in the boost. driveing a tt stealth. you have to slip the clutch not to bog the turbos. but when you do the thing is a beast. and it olny has 320 hp. and is 3500lbs or 4k i think.

09-21-2005, 12:55 AM	#14 (permalink)
kingarthur First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 110 My Photos: (0)	"I recommend you search the forum next time as there is a wealth of information that has been already posted." You can't search for something like that with keyword, and reading all of the posts is unrealistic. The poster was correct in asking the question.

09-21-2005, 01:18 AM	#16 (permalink)
kingarthur First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 110 My Photos: (0)	"you get HP but its the TQ that gives you that stuck in teh seat feeling." So many people don't understand torque or horsepower. Horsepower is a unit of work, torque is a unit of force. Torque is measured at all RPM levels, and horsepower is calculated from those torque values using the formula HP = Torque X RPM X C (a constant). The rated horsepower of an engine is the maximum calculated horsepower. Obviously, the maximum torque will be found at an RPM level less than the RPM level where the max horsepower is found. For two engines with the same horsepower, but one has a lower torque, that engine will make less horsepower than the other at most of the RPM levels lower than that at which max horsepower is found. Engines in which the torque and horsepower are nearly equal are characterized as "peaky" engines, with a relatively narrow power band, and one that is found at high RPM levels.

10-22-2005, 02:34 AM	#19 (permalink)
aloch First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 39 My Photos: (0)	Kingarthur is correct in his writeup of torque and HP. However, HP is what counts, along with gearing. The resultant torque that you feel is a factor of your HP and the effective gearing of the vehicle. So reported ENGINE torque isn't as important as HP.

10-25-2005, 12:40 AM	#20 (permalink)
theirishgonzo First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: outside of detroit Posts: 205 My Photos: (0)	tork is what gets you out of the hole. my alero has 200 torque and 170 hp but has alot more than the 2.2 4 with 160 hp and 140 torque. i like a v6 or a turbo v6 the 4 bangers i drove were all top end and you could not spin the wheels with out popingh the clutch or netrual drop for the auto. but with v6 you can just roast them. exept in a awd car.

10-27-2005, 11:43 PM	#22 (permalink)
aloch First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 39 My Photos: (0)	OK school us with your 280 HP GTP vs 177HP, you're right, no contest. But go to school on what HP is. Also recognize that crankshaft torque isn't torque at the wheels as this is affected by gearing (thus it being a very popular mod to change diff gearing to a higher numerical ratio). As said before, the resultant torque at the wheels is what counts and this is what you feel. This is always a product of HP and gearing!! HP is what counts! I think what you are defending is drive feel. If you drive a automatic (slushbox, boring, for really oldguys and uncoordinated people), then a nice slow revving, high torque at low rpm engine is extremely nice, good throttle tip in feel when your transmission is in the wrong gear. But in a sportscar it's a different story. Finally, ever notice that in the discussion of fast vehicles it boils down to power to weight ratio and not torque to weight!!!!