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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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Methanol injection question

I'm going to have an Alky Control methanol injection system installed in my Sky RL (GM Stage 2 installed already). I have a Solo Street Race exhaust and a K&N drop-in. Do I need to retune the ECU and if not, will I reap any benefits?

I find I get detonation at extended full-boost 25-26 PSI for 45 to 60 seconds after a bit, but here at 6800 ft. I can only get 91 octane. ECU shuts-down the fuel-flow-rate quickly at about the 30 second mark, probably due to heat-soak.

Also, on a side-note, I have my license plate zip-tied right in front of the intercooler. I suspect I'm getting a little less intercooler efficiency that way by about 10%. Bad idea? Colorado requires a front plate and I've been stopped at Schriever AFB for not having it and getting tickets for it. Placing it with zip-ties in the lower front opening solves this, but I wonder if there's performance loss?
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 07:32 PM
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you need a custom tune if you are going to get that into performance. Also you should have full bolt ons, (intercooler, upgraded pipes, hfcat/catless DP and an aftermarket exhaust.) Nothing should be done until you get all the bolt ons for the car.

Also if you are going to spend money on all that, get a plate bracket and get the plate off your intercooler opening.

So id suggest getting an intercooler/IC pipe upgrade and a custom HP tune after that. if you are on 25-26psi with a stock intercooler, your motor is on borrowed time!

After all that, then consider a different turbo/meth injection
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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So you're saying just cooling the air from the intercooler with my current setup is ineffectual?
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 10:45 PM
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i am saying rather than put another whole system that has to be filled and tuned to cool your air, I would just get a better intercooler to make the charge cooler.

Also its pretty well documented that the stock turbo & setup doesnt live very long beyond 23-24psi....
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
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I'm at 6800 feet altitude with the GM Stage 2. It will boost to 25 PSI daily on it's own. Which components are mostly stressed at 25 PSI? Perhaps you could direct me to the documentation you speak of?
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 11:36 PM
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sorry. I am thinking at my elevation.. In CO you are right.... less O2 means more boost.

23-24psi is at sea level.

However regardless I would go with the IC upgrade and the HF cat before you do meth injection...if you want to get heat out, the best way is to free up the exhaust gasses to get out and do a better job of cooling the intake air! If nothing else the cost of the methanol gets pricey.. VP M1 is ~$5 a gallon.....
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 10:58 AM
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I thought the GMPP tune wanted at least 93 Octane.
Do you have access to E85? You might be able to get away with adding just enough to get your octane to 93
Your other easier option would be to just drop some octane boost into each tank of gas.
That would probably end up being about the same cost as 50/50 meth without the cost of adding a complete Meth injection system.
Although, you could get alot more power with a tune on top of your Meth kit.

But Miller is right, if you are going to go down that route, a better intercooler should be on your list. The stock intercooler is known to fail and since you are always at the higher boost due to your altitude, changing that proactively would be beneficial

I HIGHLY recommend the DDM intercooler. Its a little more expensive, but it works great. Due to an accident I had, I had to temporarily use an RPI intercooler and the DDM one was much better. We had to DE-TUNE my car for the RPI while I waited for my Replacement DDM one to arrive.

FYI- the Streets of Philadelphia are not KAPPA friendly.

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I'm not short, I'm concentrated AWESOME
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elff View Post
I thought the GMPP tune wanted at least 93 Octane.
-> 91 octane

Owner of "Campbelle", a Brazen 2008 GXP ... with mods piling up...
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 04:57 PM
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Doing the Snow Performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecronis View Post
I'm going to have an Alky Control methanol injection system installed in my Sky RL (GM Stage 2 installed already). I have a Solo Street Race exhaust and a K&N drop-in. Do I need to retune the ECU and if not, will I reap any benefits?

I find I get detonation at extended full-boost 25-26 PSI for 45 to 60 seconds after a bit, but here at 6800 ft. I can only get 91 octane. ECU shuts-down the fuel-flow-rate quickly at about the 30 second mark, probably due to heat-soak.

Also, on a side-note, I have my license plate zip-tied right in front of the intercooler. I suspect I'm getting a little less intercooler efficiency that way by about 10%. Bad idea? Colorado requires a front plate and I've been stopped at Schriever AFB for not having it and getting tickets for it. Placing it with zip-ties in the lower front opening solves this, but I wonder if there's performance loss?

I'm doing the Snow Perfomrance stage 3 boost cooler. Over the years, I have been watching Millers posts and others on the water meth injection, including good input from Dave at DDM. I've worked my way through all the add ons, doing the 2871 myself along witht the Snow kit, hope to have it done before spring and then get the data to Vince for the tune, can't wait!!!!!! AEM and Snow are the two that ended up on my short list before I pulled the trigger and got the Snow kit.

Magna Flow
Dual Gauge Pillar, Aeroforce Gauges
BC Coilovers
DDMWorks IC/Charge Pipes
VDI Doors
Solo Hi Flow Cat
Backbone/Pro-beam/Venom Brace
GT2871
Snow Meth Kit
20" Ruff Racing Wheels
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yo Jeff View Post
I'm doing the Snow Perfomrance stage 3 boost cooler. Over the years, I have been watching Millers posts and others on the water meth injection, including good input from Dave at DDM. I've worked my way through all the add ons, doing the 2871 myself along witht the Snow kit, hope to have it done before spring and then get the data to Vince for the tune, can't wait!!!!!! AEM and Snow are the two that ended up on my short list before I pulled the trigger and got the Snow kit.
were you the one who bought my 2871 kit?

And im going to say go with a custom HP tuner, not vince. He has good canned tunes, but when it comes to custom stuff like your build, you want your tune tailored to your car.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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Larger intercooler is already on my list as well as IC pipes and a downpipe HF cat. These will be installed in a few months after the fact. I don't need to be repeatedly lectured on those benefits. I know that these are good upgrades and will install them of course, but not this month. I was doing the meth inject first.


My QUESTION was...

I was wondering if the GMS2 install would be able to deal with the meth, and if so any benefits? Theories? Often, a tune is required to benefit but I think the GMS2 can handle it, depending on nozzle placement.

I'm in an extremely dry climate (humid. 7%) and it gets hot here in the summer so there's that. The only octane we can get here is 91 with 15% ethanol (thanks Feds.. grrr.) I get detonation (or fuel cutoff, no one could figure it out) at max boost over time. This only happened after my Solo Street Race exhaust was installed, not after the Stage 2. I'm not sure if the LNF ECU has that adaptability. I don't want to run hyper-rich. Alky Control is progressive and I'm apt to install that. The installers suggested an additonal tune but I'm hesitant. If the GMS2 install MAF sensor is smart enough, it might help. I'll get dyno results regardless, before and after.

As a benefit, my valves will be cleaned by meth process, as DI engines suffer from dirty valves with turbo charging.

Last edited by mikecronis; 02-02-2013 at 06:18 PM.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 06:13 PM
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W-M should help your detonation problem. I agree with miller on tuning,get HPT.

Coupe 993 5mt. GMPP CAI, GMPP tune+ HPT, 3 inch catlles ext. Dejon Ic and Piping, AME w-m, Garrett Manifold, EFR 6758, Werks springs, 5th injector E42, CCW Werks rims 285 front-305 rear PScup's. Zok cross member, sway bars, back bone, LVFB. 407 WHP.

Last edited by L-N-F'n; 02-02-2013 at 07:37 PM.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 06:57 PM
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We are not lecturing you. We are telling you that an IC, HF cat, and exhaust should be considered before water/meth. It makes no sense to use methanol to cool the air when you can simply get a better intercooler which will be much more reliable at cooling your intake air compared to a water meth system.

As far as tuning, you will need a custom tune to get the max out of meth injection. I am not sure if it can be done without tuning, but I would not do it without a custom HP tune
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-03-2013, 09:26 AM
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Water meth, 2 Ports. The end. Do it.

peace out.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-03-2013, 10:36 AM
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Nope, that wasn't me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller11386 View Post
were you the one who bought my 2871 kit?

And im going to say go with a custom HP tuner, not vince. He has good canned tunes, but when it comes to custom stuff like your build, you want your tune tailored to your car.

I'm going through DDM on the 2871 but doing the work myself, when it came to the tune, which was going to be from them (DDM) at first, when I mentioned to Dave the water/meth, he suggested I use Vince, he would customize the tune with the on/off control of the water/meth kit be tied to the cruise on/off button. I liked the idea, but, hey, all this has been a fun learning experience, always hind sight in anything we do....

Magna Flow
Dual Gauge Pillar, Aeroforce Gauges
BC Coilovers
DDMWorks IC/Charge Pipes
VDI Doors
Solo Hi Flow Cat
Backbone/Pro-beam/Venom Brace
GT2871
Snow Meth Kit
20" Ruff Racing Wheels
Wilwood Big Brake 14" all four
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