Radio/CD player, MP3 Quality Bit Rate

[MidniteBlues]

Howdy!! Question to our "high quality" music lovers. We all know that the "best" music to play back in any CD player is obviously WAV files. They are also the LARGEST file per song. We also know that the Sky/Sol Monsoon can play MP3's in 32/40/56/64/80/96/112/128/160/192/224/256/320KBPS. Almost everyone uses a standard of 128kbps. Granted it is NOT the best quality, however it is decent and the files are smaller than of course a WAV file.

My question is, at what bit rate do you record your songs at? AND, what do you think IS the real bit rate to record songs at and burn your CD's at? Once you state your preference, can you tell me/us why? We know at whatever bite rate, it will not ever be as good as a WAV file, however I am looking for an answer that will give us the BEST quality for the smallest file--Looking forward to these answers. I could research these questions on the net, I might still, to perhaps answer any future posts, but I am very much interested on the thoughts & feeling of those who do this on a daily basis--

[deep_blue_sol]

anything under 128k is definitely noticeable.
I use 128k for all my stuff, marginally inferior to CD quality, but can't hear the difference in a moving car.

[Morfious]

192 VBR (Varriable bit rate) is the minimum I will accept for my music. Tracks or artist I really like will get 256 VBR. I am able to hear the difference between 128 and 256. I think 192 VBR is the best trade off between music quality and file size.

[hdwizard]

Originally Posted by Morfious

192 VBR (Varriable bit rate) is the minimum I will accept for my music. Tracks or artist I really like will get 256 VBR. I am able to hear the difference between 128 and 256. I think 192 VBR is the best trade off between music quality and file size.

I do the same with my MP3 files, for the same reason.

Given the relatively inexpensive mass storage on the market these days, there really is no need to squeeze the file size down to the bare minimum. If you absolutely feel you must, fine, but to me, the better sound quality is worth the (not much) bigger file size.

[lorennerol]

When I got all my music organized and ripped down my CD collection I used 256 CBR. I figured that was pretty close to CD quality and disk space is only going to get less expensive. I currently have 6031 items (songs) in iTunes, all of which fit on my 40GB iPod, with about 5GB to spare.

[SKY 4 ME]

What is the rate that is stored on an ipod nano? It doesn't seem as clear as a CD to me, but not too bad I guess. Is there a way to make the file save at a higher quality level?
SKY 4 ME

[Rick Tinley Park]

I rip and store in 320. I have put disks together at less -BUT- sorry I like 320 -- I only get about 50-60 songs per CD but the sound is brilliant.
My computer is on a network w/my brother (He is a Computer Nerd – really the company Nerds On Site) and he has a dedicated music server (I think 500 Gig), we have >7000 songs at 320…. Still growing

[lorennerol]

Originally Posted by SKY 4 ME

What is the rate that is stored on an ipod nano? It doesn't seem as clear as a CD to me, but not too bad I guess. Is there a way to make the file save at a higher quality level?
SKY 4 ME

The device is irrelevant- it's how the songs were originally saved to MP3 format. I DL'd a lot of music back in the Napster hey-day and it's almost all 128 bit. When I ripped down my CD collection I did it at 256 bit.

If you use iTunes to rip your CD it defaults to 128 bit AAC format- you need to dig into the preferences to change it to MP3 and whatever bit rate you want.

[deep_blue_sol]

Originally Posted by hdwizard

I do the same with my MP3 files, for the same reason.

Given the relatively inexpensive mass storage on the market these days, there really is no need to squeeze the file size down to the bare minimum. If you absolutely feel you must, fine, but to me, the better sound quality is worth the (not much) bigger file size.

makes a world of difference when using the single CD MP3 player in the car.
I have the car for a year and never ejected the CD.
for your personal player you listen to at home, you might want to go to higher rate , and get a bigger storage. The MP3 CD option is limited to 800 MB, and again, you won't hear the difference in a moving car.(especially with top down)

[Roadie Rob]

192 for me (11,000+ right now). 128 was noticeable, 160 is better, but for the marginal space difference, I'll take 192 over 160 any day.

Outside of that, unless you are a trained musician (or maybe a K-9) I doubt the average human ear can tell the difference.

Anyone listen to "HD FM" yet?

For comparison, I thought I once saw that XM uses 96 kbps for its sampling rate on the signal transfer. THAT is noticeable to my ears...!

[MidniteBlues]

So far the guys that have responded have convinced me to re-do all my music in 192 over 128. I think what I'll do & test is create them in all of the quality rates and compare the files sizes. I'll let you know what I find out afterwords on a single song. Thanks for all your opinions so far, I appreciate it--

[Mattr762]

I use 192. But I also agree with deep_blue_sol about not being able to hear a difference in a moving car with road noise, wind noise and engine noise.

I usually listen to MP3's on the computer where I use my Grado SR60 headphones (best buy for $60). With these headphones you can really hear the difference in quality.

Also, here is a link showing sound compression with different formats. These charts really show what is lost.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...ssion+bit+rate

Here is the original:


LC-AAC at 128kbps


LC-AAC at 196kbps

[SKY 4 ME]

Is there a way to convert songs bought from itunes from 128 to 192? I try to convert them , and it says they are protected. Is there somewhere else I can buy the songs for a dollar and be able to save them on my ipod nano as mp3 at 192?
Thanks,
SKY 4 ME

[Midnight Sky]

Originally Posted by Roadie Rob

For comparison, I thought I once saw that XM uses 96 kbps for its sampling rate on the signal transfer. THAT is noticeable to my ears...!

I don't know what XM uses, but there is a HUGE difference between XM and my CD/MP3 tunes. Drives me nuts.

[Roadie Rob]

Originally Posted by Midnight Sky

I don't know what XM uses, but there is a HUGE difference between XM and my CD/MP3 tunes. Drives me nuts.

Yup!

My wife's '06 Vue came with the XM in the head unit and even with the same 3-band EQ and sub in back (Monsoon), it sounds flat at best.

I use a TAO 2GO portable XM unit in my Sky (Monsoon) and my '07 Outback (6+ speakers with driver's seat sub) and both are slightly better. The TAO unit has a bass & treble setting on the output with I have cranked up. It gives it a better sound than my poor wife's GM head unit in both cars but still lacks the thump of a CD or ripped mp3 disc.

You figure with all that satellite crap they could send a high bitrate signal. Of course, I could be completely ignorant and not realize it was either impossible or extremely non-cost effective.

[MidniteBlues]

Well, I have been doing some testing etc on bitrates. I use Nero to convert files which give the choices I want and need. They also use something called mp3Pro, which I won't use because of the limits it puts on the BR even at the highest quality.

With Nero, you have the option of using a "variable bit rate" which after testing with wav files, I noticed that it will convert songs at whatever variable rate the software wishes. Now I am taking about the very best quality, which is 320 kbps at a sample rate of 44100 Hz. Some songs came out 320, others at 192, some even as low as 128 from the same CD. So I decided to test using "constant bit rate" which doing it this way gives you all the songs at whatever BR you want AND is the very best quality you can make a mp3 song. I noticed that files created with the VBR vs CBR even tho the files said 320bkps @ 44Khz, the files with the VBR were smaller, in some cases 2-4MB smaller even tho they are rated the same. As an example I'll use Cher's song "Believe".
With MP3Pro disabled-- All will be @ 44,100Hz with VBR
Encoding Quality Bit Rate File Size
Fast - Highest Quality 256kbps 6941kb*
Fast - High Quality 224kbps 5147kb
Fast - Medium Quality 192kbps 3852kb
Medium - Highest Q 256kbps 6941kb*
Medium - High Q 224kbps 5147kb
Medium - Medium Q 192kbps 3852kb
Highest - Highest Q 256kbps 7128kb**
Highest - High Q 192kbps 5220kb
Highest - Medium Q 192kbps 3846kb

With MP3Pro disabled-- All will be @ 44,100Hz with CBR
Encoding Quality Bit Rate File Size
Highest - Highest Quality - 320kbps - 9379kb

I decided to use only the highest quality after my initial tests above and as you can see, the files size is approximately 2251kb bigger from the VBR rate in its highest conversion. BUT, I have the very highest and best quality you can have. Granted, bigger files, less on a CD, BUT the best possible sound I can have next to a wav file. BTW, the wav file size is 41,351kb, a saving of 31,972kb . So that is what I'll be using.

On another note, donno how many of you remember Napster ring any bells? Well there is a new outfit called RocketMP3 which is very much similiar. That is what I am currently using to grab/share my jams. Anybody interested? google them-- Also, as a courtesy to members, if you PM your email, I'll gladly send you the "free" version-- Just make sure your email provider will let a large file in, it is 3,633kb.

OK, lets post and see how this maze came out--

[Rick Tinley Park]

Originally Posted by MidniteBlues

Well, I have been doing some testing etc on bitrates. I use Nero to convert files which give the choices I want in need. They also use something called mp3Pro, which I won't use because of the limits it puts on the BR even at the highest quality.

With Nero, you have the option of using a "variable bit rate" which after testing with wav files, I noticed that it will convert songs at whatever variable rate the software wishes. Now I am taking about the very best quality, which is 320 kbps at a sample rate of 44100 Hz. Some songs came out 320, others at 192, some even as low as 128 from the same CD. So I decided to test using "constant bit rate" which doing it this way gives you all the songs at whatever BR you want AND is the very best quality you can make a mp3 song. I noticed that files created with the VBR vs CBR even tho the files said 320bkps @ 44Khz, the files with the VRB were smaller, in some cases 2-4MB smaller even tho they are rated the same. As an example I'll use Cher's song "Believe".
With MP3Pro disabled-- All will be @ 44,100Hz with VRB
Encoding Quality Bit Rate File Size
Fast - Highest Quality 256kbps 6941kb*
Fast - High Quality 224kbps 5147kb
Fast - Medium Quality 192kbps 3852kb
Medium - Highest Q 256kbps 6941kb*
Medium - High Q 224kbps 5147kb
Medium - Medium Q 192kbps 3852kb
Highest - Highest Q 256kbps 7128kb**
Highest - High Q 192kbps 5220kb
Highest - Medium Q 192kbps 3846kb

With MP3Pro disabled-- All will be @ 44,100Hz with CBR
Encoding Quality Bit Rate File Size
Highest - Highest Quality - 320kbps - 9379kb

I decided to use only the highest quality after my initial tests above and as you can see, the files size is approximately 2251kb bigger from the VRB rate in its highest conversion. BUT, I have the very highest and best quality you can have. Granted, bigger files, less on a CD, BUT the best possible sound I can have next to a wav file. BTW, the wav file size is 41,351kb, a saving of 31,972kb . So that is what I'll be using.

On another note, donno how many of you remember Napster ring any bells? Well there is a new outfit called RocketMP3 which is very much similiar. That is what I am currently using to grab/share my jams. Anybody interested? google them-- Also, as a courtesy to members, if you PM your email, I'll gladly send you the "free" version-- Just make sure your email provider will let a large file in, it is 3,633kb.

OK, lets post and see how this maze came out--

As usual -- you do a lot of research and have a real "Show me" attitude. Your conclusions are the same as mine. I have to admit -- we listen to many people saying how they want a better sound system in their car -- yet the source material is where it starts. I always rip at 320 and use that as the transfer speed as well. As in cooking -- it’s the raw ingredients that make the best meal.

I average 60-68 songs a CD

[KentuckySky]

[quote=MidniteBlues;229106] As an example I'll use Cher's song "Believe".

Okay, I've read this whole thread and only have one question....you listen to Cher?

[SKYtime]

I use 320 myself. I get about 70-75 songs onto a single 80 minute CD.