reBAR Installed

[clif]

Originally Posted by jel

Not really sure why puggs and clif find it necessary to get personal. The triangle is on top just like the instructions dictate. Are you insinuating that Kappasphere made their product incorrectly by putting the lettering on upside down? Or are you just assuming that I made a mistake after careful troubleshooting of the problem? Little condescending, don't you thing?

I've sold the reBAR and it's in the past as far as I'm concerned. Like I said, I've never "whined" in the last 13 months, so you know what you can do with that comment? Exactly. I don't have a lack of communication. I'm very able to communicate and I do it for a living. Maybe you should take some time and read all my posts from over the last year instead of being an assuming and snide third-person remark generator. You weren't the one who dealt with my previous situation.

One thing my parents told me is that talking about someone in the third person is rude. Kind of like pointing. Here's an idea - stay off my radar and I'll stay off of yours. Try minding your own business, and I'll do the same.

Have a great day.

No, none of us had to deal with your personal situation of the refund sort on a price drop. What I was referring to was your stated refusal to give the manufacturer that opportunity to deal with your CURRENT dissatisfaction with THIS product.

Your previous post: "Yes, I should have called the vendor first and spoke about it. However, I've called before when I purchased the KS2 for my 2.4 when the price was reduced three days after I purchased it. Calling about the reBAR wasn't really on my list of things to do because of my past experience. Also, I took the disclaimer at its word and didn't feel like trying to explain and negotiate after my first experience.

Yes, I should have kept the whole reBAR thing on one thread. I'm fine with the other one being deleted if no one has a problem with that. I'm not out to ruin anyone's reputation; however, if everyone just wants these threads to be rosy and happy, then I won't tell it like it is. I've posted nothing but praise for products since I've been here for over a year. The one time I complain about something in a public forum, I get LOTS of feedback. I was basically told to shut up and color when it was private.

I'm not interested in a refund. I will make it work. The product is not defective. It's very symmetric and the holes are where they're supposed to be. The fact that I have to make it fit is my contention. My KS2 is installed correctly and something is amiss. I think the product is stylish and also serves a function. That's why I chose it.

I will work the problem myself and make it work. But I do have the right to free disclosure if something isn't kosh. I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one who has one and has posted any feedback on the installation other than the vendor. If some other people post that it fits like a glove on their KS1/KS2 I'd love to see that so I can perhaps reattack this.

Again, I will make it work and I'm not looking for any freebies or discounts"

That sounds like a person who has determined that no matter what the offer from a vendor, he is GOING to be unhappy. My comments were directed at what YOU wrote, that you took it personally is a matter of choice. As for staying off YOUR radar, sorry, this is an open forum and when something does not appear fair or reasonable, someone has to take a stance and comment. As for the dreaded "disclaimer" hogwash, that is primarily legalese. In my case, a simple, less than 10 minute call to Tech support had me being given an RMA authorization and a refund with NO argument.
As for forcing the piece into place with a jack....well, I guess you WERE determined to make it work, whatever the design parameters.

In any case, I am glad that you were able to sell the product and recoup your loss. I just wish you had done what a reasonable person might have done, chosen NOT to force the piece into place, NOT moving your exhaust and complaining about K'sphere's customer service which in this case you DID NOT contact.

Best of luck with your car.

Clif

[puggsleyssky]

Yo Jel, Jelllll man, I'm just ticked cause I didn't get in on the $$$ buy it now re-bar action. Saw it but too late! It (yours) had drifted into skyforumland and out of reach. Clif makes a strong case though.

[jel]

Well, now that you've decided to retort instead of just letting it rest. I've had private conversations with people who've dealt with similar situations. If the disclaimer is bull, then why is it there? Get rid of it. I know what would have happened. I would have talked to someone who would tell me to try all the stuff that I've already tried. I'll remind those reading. I already dealt with a previous phone call and several emails before. Why would I attempt to go in that arena again? Would you? Would the other people I've spoken to?

I asked for the subject to be dropped and I moved on. If you want to twist the knife and have me come back with words. Here I am. You assumed that just because your reBAR didn't fit YOUR car and you got a refund, that I would be able to do the same. The piece is advertised to fit the exhaust I have. I know what would happen. I'm trying really hard to limit my words here.

I was attempting to smooth things over (Again) with the post you're referring to. I'm not smoothing anything over from this point. You act like you've never been disappointed in a product. You act like you've never had to deal with a company that has told you "sorry, you're loss". Odd how it's very important now that it's public. You don't even have a KS2, so why are you commenting on a system you don't even have? You have stock in the company?

Like I said, I've handled it the way I want to handle it with MY experiences with the company. Why do you care so much? You pick and choose the posts that support your argument, and refuse to put the whole situation in context. Just give it a rest already and stop worrying about my exhaust. If I want to complain about a company, I'll complain about it. I have that right and I have reason. If you want to continue to act like you know all about my situation, then continue. But I'm going to correct you every time.

I don't need good luck with my car or my exhaust system. It's worked just fine since I've bought it. Let it be if you want, since it's a public forum. If not, then I'll be right here speaking my mind. WTH?

[JohnD]

I think I'd like to post a comment here. Hopefully it won't anger anybody.

First, looking at the reBAR on the KappaSphere SKY there was plenty of room. The thought of the exhaust resting on the bar just doesn't make sense to me. But, I can say this... The Magnaflow system has lots of joints and adjustments on it. You can twist the main pipe under the seats, adust the rotation on the pipe coming into the muffler, and rotate the tips off of the muffler. Lots of ways to tweek it. And, in fact, it needs some tweeking on SPIRIT as it is slightly mis-aligned right now.

When I had some research work done on the car they took off the Magnaflow and returned to the stock exhaust for running some dyno tests. When I got SPIRIT back the Magnaflow had been reinstalled, but it was all wacky. It was hanging at an angle, and they had tried to just rotate the various tips up and down to adjust. It looked "cross-eyed." A follow-up visit to the Magnaflow research department and they adjusted it so it hung real nice.

Then I got the whole engine replaced, and Saturn returned the car with the stock exhaust on it. I installed the Magnaflow myself on jackstands and that didn't leave me a lot of room. I remember what the guys at Magnaflow said: "Start with everything loose. Adjust it so it hangs right. Then start tightening everything from the front to the back." I tried that, but doing it alone and with limited space I only got it close, not perfect. I still need to do some adjustments.

What I am trying to say by all of this is that there are a lot of different ways for an exhaust system to hang. A bad angle up front can be compensated somewhat by rotations of the tips. But everything else in-between hangs differently. I don't know if that is the case here or not, but it could be the issue. The exhaust as installed works fine, looks fine, but is not really hanging where it is intended to be, or where it is on other installations. If that is the case, then when you go to add something else like the reBAR then there is the exhaust sitting where it is not supposed to be. It is my suspician that such is the problem here. It's nobodys fault, just the circumstance of a slightly different hanging path that is causing all the trouble. If you don't have a reBAR in the way then the hanging is fine all by itself... Why do forums have to get personal and nasty? If I can help by offering an insight then I will do it, but I don't see the value of picking on anybody that is having a problem, or a vendor that provided a part, or a shop that offered a service. Let's try to fix the problems, not be at each others' throats. We have a great car, and great experiences, and we can make them better by working together. (Do I sound like Rodney King? I hope not!)

The second point that I want to make is this. KappaSphere is just "over the hill" from me. I have worked pretty closely with those guys on a number of projects. SPIRIT was the prototype car for the Fujita Intake that they offer, and also the first car that they fitted the polished intercooler pipes to. They also used SPIRIT to test the reBAR with the Magnaflow three-inch exhaust. SPIRIT also has some nicely colored light bulbs that they were experimenting with (why they STILL haven't offered a complete lighting kit I do not know. Guys! Where is the lighting kit???) And, from time to time, they have even got inside JohnD's brain - kicking all the spiders and cobwebs out of there along the way - and asked for my ideas about new products they could introduce. At all times I have found them to be great to work with and totally professional. While some of the staff turns over, and the old guys leave and new guys come on board, the quality of their service and the devotion that they show to supporting us has been great.

If you choose to give them a chance, they will be great. If you choose not to do that, well that's okay too. No problem.

I was thinking about all the KappaSphere stuff I have on SPIRIT. You can see their stuff from any angle on my car.

From the front, KappaSphere HIDs and the prototype lighting kit.

From the sides, the M1 rims - since discontinued.

From the rear, you can now see the reBAR. And the SKYshield.

Inside? Little Chromies, red-trimmed floor mats and the Kapparoo pouch.

Under the hood you could see the intake and intercooler pipes if Saturn would ever get them back to me...

I have lots of KappaSphere stuff on my car. And I am pleased with all of it. Of course, your experience may differ.

One other thing that I guess I should mention. I am not paid by KappaSphere to make any endorsements. I buy all my stuff from them and pay for it at the prices that you guys do. The only exception is when they borrow my car to use it as a prototype for something. In those cases it is tradition to honor the lending of the car with a complimentary copy of the part developed using the car. Borla did that for me, and so did Magnaflow, when they used my car as an engineering test bed. KappaSphere honors that tradition as well, and for that I am grateful.

I work with the KappaSphere guys because I enjoy it. I like seeing the process. I like hearing about how the designs have to be adjusted here or there; how certain ideas catch on or don't; how they try to solve a problem in a cost effective and reliable way. I find that fascinating, so I participate where I can. The KappaSphere team makes that process a lot of fun, so I am more than willing to keep going back to them.

I guess that's all I have to say.

Jel, I hope you are okay with all of this. If there is anything that I can do to help, or that the KappaSphere guys can do, just ask. And, as I said, if you choose not to ask that's okay too. Best wishes to you in any case.

[blackmod]

i agree with the above statement, when you deal with aftermarket stuff fitting around other aftermarket stuff you have to be adaptable. My Magnaflow exhaust is fully welded in which makes adaption a little more complicated but the bar can be manipulated instead. It's a tight fit. I got mine to work for me.

[jel]

I really don't want to beat a dead horse over this. The pipes exiting the muffler are welded. The end cap on the driver's side is welded and the passenger one is adjustable. The input pipe at the muffler is welded. I'm not going to bend my pipes, bars, or muffler to make it fit. As I described, the out pipes are perfectly positioned as is. I'm very satisfied with the muffler and have never had a problem with it. I've already explained my thoughts on everything. The reBAR is sold and I'm not worried about it too much. I've also bought 'lil chromies and I'm pleased with those. I don't have a problem with the products I've purchased.