SPIRIT Update - Plugs and Bulletin

[JohnD]

I visited the dealership today. Other than making me wait for a while, then abandoning me for a while, once we got to sit down and have a chat things were okay. They have no idea what is going on internally in the engine. They pulled the plugs, and found no compression on cylinder #1. (The plug from that cylinder is interesting - see below)

They noticed that the plugs in the car do NOT match the new plugs that they ordered (my guess is that this is the low-heat versus high-heat issue.) And they handed me a bulletin which I think is totally irrelevant to the situation here, and certanly not a "technical advisory" pertaining to this specific circumstance. (More on THAT below, too.)

But first, here is SPIRIT in the repair area:

[JohnD]

Here are the spark plugs. They appear pretty gunked up. Would you experts classify these as "fouled"? I don't know how clean a spark plug is supposed to be after 12,000 miles.

Also, plug #1 obviously looks a lot cleaner than the other three. Did they clean it up? If so, why? What is the point in that?

Also, is it just me, or does it look like the ground electrode on #1 is bent in closer to (and perhaps even touching) the center electrode?

[MBVette]

John this is what I went through before my car went into the shop 3 weeks ago. So just be prepared for it to get worse.

[JohnD]

Finally, the infamous "bulletin." It covers three things.

1. If you are a GM Dealer, you should use only GM parts during a repair
2. If you are a GM Dealer, you should not install non-GM parts to improve performance, because if you do GM cannot be responsible for the warranty
3. It gives examples of modifications to a Duramax Diesel Engine that can increase horsepower. These include (but are not limited to) Propane Injection, Nitrous Oxide Injection, Black Boxes, ECM Retunes, Calibration Modules which connect to the vehicle diagnostic connector, and modifications to the engine turbocharger waste gate

In short? It's telling DEALERS not to mess with this stuff on customer's vehicles. Here is the last sentence, which is clearly worded in a way to tell DEALERS not to install these devices "on their customer's vehicle."

It is imperative for dealers to understand that by installing such devices, they are jeopardizing not only the warranty coverage, but also the performance and reliability of their customer's vehicle.

That's pretty clear that this is worded to DEALERS telling them not to install performance parts (and then jack up the price of the new car). This is reinforced by the first sentence in paragraph four:

It should also be noted that dealers modifying new vehicles and installing equipment, parts and accessories obtained from sources not authorized by GM...

Again, this is telling DEALERS not to modify the new cars. Isn't that clear? And, the fact that it talks about propane injection to a Duramax has little relevance to a new intake on an Ecotec, but I may be reaching a little with that point.

Now, what does it say about modifications? Pretty clear on that:

General Motors does not support or endorse the use of devices or modifications that, when installed, increase engine horsepower and torque.

Of course they don't. But does doing so void your warranty? Here is what is says about that:

Damage or failure from the use or installation of a non-GM accessory will not be covered under warranty. Failure resulting from the alteration or modification of the vehicle, including the cutting, welding or disconnecting of the vehicle's original equipment parts and components will void the warranty.

Notice that this implies a cause-and-result effect. Break a rim installing custom shocks and you don't get a new rim under warranty (damage from installation.) Tear out your wheel well because you lowered the car not covered (damage from use). In terms of performance failure, the phrase "resulting from" is in there.

If you disconnect the OEM antenna do you automatically void your warranty? If you disconnect the original equipment wiper blades and attach a different brand, do you void the warranty? If you replace the OEM air filter with another brand, do you void the warranty? According to this "bulletin" only if damage results from those changes. And that seems fair.

And that is reflected in the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, where the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty.

So, my intake would have to have "caused the damage" in cylinder #1 in order to deny the warranty repair. And if the piston did smack into the spark plug, how exactly can a different air filter cause that to happen?

The "bulletin" is below:

[ggccg]

Originally Posted by JohnD

Also, plug #1 obviously looks a lot cleaner than the other three. Did they clean it up? If so, why? What is the point in that?

Also, is it just me, or does it look like the ground electrode on #1 is bent in closer to (and perhaps even touching) the center electrode?

I'd say that plug #1 is clean because it hasn't been firing because of the way its ground electrode is bent and has been "washed" by unburned gasoline.

[A Sky 42]

Originally Posted by ggccg

I'd say that plug #1 is clean because it hasn't been firing because of the way its ground electrode is bent and has been "washed" by unburned gasoline.

[BlueSkyRL]

Number 1 looks like they cleaned it and may have droped it. My old plugs looked very similar to your plugs before I put in the new hotter plugs(about 4,500 miles).

On a different note, I still have the check engine light coming on all the time (even after putting in the new plugs).

[joker70]

They didn't get any compression in #1 because they pulled the plug out du lol

[Antonio]

is there a date on when the new plugs began in production?

[RMFNSKY]

Not to be real dumb, but is that sevice bullentin saying that if you or the dealers puts on engine mods such as CAI, turbos, etc the warrenty is voided. If so there are a lot of owners who are

[Maverick]

Plugs #2-4 show a rich mixture and from the soot at the tail pipe this seems to be the nature of the beast. Plug #1 however has grounded electrodes. This usually happens during removal, gapping and reinstallation of the plug and not while the plug is installed in the cylinder head. The question is how was plug #1's electrodes damaged while installed in the cylinder head. Could it be a reach problem? After market intake mods could not cause this problem. Clean plugs #2-4, replace #1 and road test.

[LANDSCAPE]

My concern would be:

How did the ground electrode get bent?

Is there a possibility that it somehow struck the top of the piston, or something foriegn in that cylinder?

If it struck the piston, perhaps because it was not the correct length plug, did it crack the piston, thus resulting in the lack of compression?

Did they re-run the compression test and get no compression on each run?

If they re-run the test and get compression, then replace the plugs and test run the motor, drive it like you stole it and then pul plugs to see if they are normal, and is the problem corrected.

[SkyTrail]

A spark plug with the correct heat range for the application will have a light gray color, not the color your plugs came out with. That is assuming that everything with the engine is spot on. Timing, rings, air fuel ratio, spark intensity and valve operation can all cause this kind of messy plug. I've seen plugs that came from cylinders with holes blown in the piston and you can normally see small globlets of metal stuck somewhere on the end of the plug. Your tech people could do a quick borescope to look at the piston head.

[KappaMan]

It just seems that lack of compression in a piston would have an obvious cause... it's not exactly rocket surgery...


Either rings are shot/gone, your bore is severely scored, or you have a hole in the piston or the head. Or all of the above. Or any combo of one or more of the above....

[stonebreaker]

John, read the Magnuson Moss Act. It basically states that the burdon of proof is on the dealer to prove the intake blew the engine.

My two cents, it looks like the #1 plug's electrodes were touching, causing a misfire (actually no fire), letting too much oxygen into the exhaust, which fooled the computer into thinking the engine was running lean - and so it flooded the engine with extra gas.

[YellowSky]

Hey i just got back from a trip to daytona... and this kinda sounds like the same thing they are goin through there.. they have a turbo block laying in the back that they pulled outta a RL.. the grounding wire from the block was cross threaded and wasnt maken a good ground.. so the computer kept re callibrating and leaned cylinder 1 out so much it ended up blowing a hole into the block of the engine.. but the car was still driveable.... maybe have them look into somthing like that.. but everything your saying is the same thing that happend to this one besides the plug bent... hopefully this may help ya....

[Gerry]

I wouldn't discount that the cylinder experienced a hydraulic. May be a bad injector on that one. They're probably going to have to go invasive on this to track down the problem.

[JohnD]

Originally Posted by RMFNSKY

Not to be real dumb, but is that sevice bullentin saying that if you or the dealers puts on engine mods such as CAI, turbos, etc the warrenty is voided. If so there are a lot of owners who are

That is how the dealer is playing it. They are saying that any mods void the warranty. Which is, as it turns out, illegal. The mods have to be the cause of the failure under the law.

What I am going to do here is to lead the good fight for the "Mod Squad" out there and see if I can set a precedent. I am pretty good in a fight. The dealer could very well just have gotten some bad advice at a low level from some tech back east. I am going up the chain here and hope to get a quick dismissal from the area service guy who, with any luck, will say "GM offers an intake like that. Such an intake will not bend an electrode on a spark plug. Take the guy's car apart, figure out what went wrong in cylinder #1 and fix it for him, okay?"

Keep your fingers crossed with me here on this one, and hopefully we will ALL win.

[Robotech]

WOW...okay, a few things I'm seeing.

Plug #1. That condition can be caused by a number of factors. One is that it got bent during installation. HOWEVER, you would have had a missfire code from day one had that happened. It sould have happened when the plug was removed too...but you mention they showed no compression in #1. I believe that.

It's what plugs #2-4 are showing that worry me. It's not their color either. Look at their electrodes. They look like needles! They should be big, round and full...not little pinpoints like those.

That, to me, looks like you have a combination of too cold of a plug and/or detonation. The only thing that leads me to not believe that is the fact that #1, other than the bent end, looks okay. Hard to tell though. Regardless, I'd say that the plugs are too cold, the car ran lean, and something came apart in Cylinder one. When Cylinder one came apart, debris was thrown upward in the cylinder hitting the plug and damaging it.

With Grand Prixs, our enignes are notorious for this. We'll see knock our pistons will fail at about the 2 O'Clock position sending a chip off the edge of the piston face bouncing around the chamber. It almost ALWAYS smacks the plug on the way out and a plug like that coming out of our car almost ALWAYS means we've chipped a piston (our engines are so dang tough though you can just bend the plug back, put it back in, and the engine runs fine...scary). That's kind of what I figured happened to your car but in a more extreme fashion since you have no compression. I bet whatever let loose in that cylindar is either a ring that broke, a hole in the piston, or got jammed in a valve.

EDIT: John, on the #1 plug. Damage like that ONLY occures if something strikes the plug. Something HIT that plug. To know for sure they're going to have to either use a borescope to see what's damaged in the cylinder or pull the head. Either way, they need to dig deeper before they say the intake caused this. Something hit that plug.

Sucks John...keep the pictures coming and let us know what happens.