Starting/ Charging problem

[oakfarm]

I’m having a starting/charging problem & I hope someone can help with some suggestions before I go back to the service dept.

It all started when I took my car in for the rear end recall. They kept the car for a weekend while waiting for parts. When I picked it up, the first turn of the key it just clicked once. Turned it off & tried again & it started. I drove about 10 miles & the radio cut out. About 2 miles later the car shut down, coasted for a little & started back up on its own but it was sputtering like it was out of gas. I coasted to a place to turn off & called the service dept. By the time a tow came the battery was dead.

They kept it over night, charged it, did some tests, drove it around & decided they left the key on for the weekend & it was ok. The car sat for a few days & the next time I tried to start it the battery was dead again. Back to the shop & this time they put in a new battery.

Last night we drove about 40 miles, shut off & started the car a few times & the last time I got the click- no start. The third time I tried it, it started. Called Onstar & they didn’t see a problem. They connected me to a tech, I explained everything to him & his opinion was it might be the ignition switch.

Anyone care to give an opinion as to what might be the problem? Could it be a cracked fuse block?

[Bogie]

Alternator?

[SkyBaby]

When a very similar thing happened to Jade.... they had to REPROGRAM the ecm... or the other thing.... somehow it "lost " some of its stored info.... but... untimately they decided the most of the problems were with the fuse block and where the wireharnesses were connected.... but..... Jade had quit running altogether on me 2 additional times and lights go out and at times she wont start until the 2nd or 3rd try..... They really need to figure out these issues.... SkyBaby


Best of luck to you

[oakfarm]

Thanks SkyBaby. I keep hoping this car isn't developing "Jades syndrome".
Bogie, they checked the alternator on the first round & also for a current drain & all was normal.

[RedlineBlue]

Last night we drove about 40 miles, shut off & started the car a few times & the last time I got the click- no start. The third time I tried it, it started

A poor battery connection? I have had this many times with different vehicles with corroded terminals (unlikely since they replaced your battery) or a loose connection (could be if they forgot to tighten a terminal(s)).

Electrical computer issue? Computer not getting the appropriate signals to crank? I think I read somewhere there is a crank sensor (tells the engine is turning over)? Is that bad?

I think if it was the ignition switch you wouldn't get the "click".

If it was the battery not charging i.e. the altenator the battery would have been dead and wouldn't have started on your third time. If indeed your battery is going dead I would say a poor battery connection, I agree a bad altenator, or a bad battery.

RedlineBlue

[MidniteBlues]

I'll always agree on the alternator AND there use to be another electronic gizmo called the voltage regulator bwt the 2, however, I'll submit that it is possible that they replaced your battery with a defective battery.. Oh my, it is possible and #2, ARE you sure they replaced the battery top begin with>>?/ DID YOU check to see if it was new?? Finally, if the systems battery is not chrged/chrging, the car runs on battery juice, until it has no moe juice.. Then....nothing, totally dead battery..Do your headlights work? and radio when these issues happen?

[oakfarm]

Originally Posted by MidniteBlues

I'll always agree on the alternator AND there use to be another electronic gizmo called the voltage regulator bwt the 2, however, I'll submit that it is possible that they replaced your battery with a defective battery.. Oh my, it is possible and #2, ARE you sure they replaced the battery top begin with>>?/ DID YOU check to see if it was new?? Finally, if the systems battery is not chrged/chrging, the car runs on battery juice, until it has no moe juice.. Then....nothing, totally dead battery..Do your headlights work? and radio when these issues happen?

I watched him change the battery but there's a chance it could be bad too.
The radio is the first thing to shut down when the batt gets low. Tech told me this is a built in feature to conserve power. Headlights work till the batt dies. Last time i tried to start it the batt was not completely dead, the headlights went off when i turned the key & back on when i released it.
I get around 50 to 60 miles on a full charge before the car refuses to start. I have it on a charger so i can drive & not tow it to the dealer. there are no accessorys hooked up to cause a drain.

Permagrin slowly fading.

Thanks for all the replys.

[Bogie]

Sounds like something is draining the battery when ignition is off.

You said this started happening after the rear end recall work was performed. Does anyone know which circuits are in and around the work area that could have been disturbed during the repair?

They need to set up some kind of apparatus to read current drain when ignition if off. If the reading is high, they need to start probing to find the culprit. Could be the ignition relay...could be the starter solenoid or starter motor...could be the alternator (Yes, I I know they checked it)..could be the GPS or OnStar...could be the radio...could be something in the fuse block.

I'm aware of some nasty drain gremlins that only drain intermittently. This can happen in coils (motors or solenoids) because they rotate or slide in a manner that only manifest a short in certain end states. Very nasty.

Count yourself lucky that it repeats often. A repeatable power drain should be trackable. The nasty ones happen when everything is find for a month or two, and then BOOM! Gotcha.

[oakfarm]

I have been testing the car & checking voltages since last week. On Thursday, showing 12.8 volts on the batt, the first two turns of the key produced a click. On the third try it started.
I check the battery voltage every day after work & it always reads 12.5 to 12.8. Have been driving every night around 12 to 20 miles & checking voltage again & it's staying in the high 12 range. The car hasn't failed to start since Thursday but i still don't trust it. The voltage reads 13.8 with the car running so it' probably not the alternator.
I can't seem to reproduce the problem so i'm reluctant to take it in & have them tell me there's nothing wrong. I'll start adding more miles each night & mabey by next week it'll go 100 mi without a problem.
Still leaning toward the ignition switch & i might just have it replaced on my own.
Thanks again.

[Bogie]

On Thursday, showing 12.8 volts on the batt, the first two turns of the key produced a click. On the third try it started.

That strongly suggests something something along the ignition path, which would include the ignition switch...but it could also be the starter solenoid or relay (or whatever it would be called with our electronic ignition?).

I check the battery voltage every day after work & it always reads 12.5 to 12.8.

Better than nothing. However, a battery can be draining and it might not be reflected in the voltage until it's too late.

[Skip]

I check for battery drain with a multimeter. I take off the positive lead of the battery and hook in the meter between the battery and the positive lead. It should read twelve volts or so, if you have a drain. Then start pulling fuses and when the volts go to zero then you have what is draining your battery.....Skip...

[southphillylakes]

Originally Posted by oakfarm

I have been testing the car & checking voltages since last week. On Thursday, showing 12.8 volts on the batt, the first two turns of the key produced a click. On the third try it started.
I check the battery voltage every day after work & it always reads 12.5 to 12.8. Have been driving every night around 12 to 20 miles & checking voltage again & it's staying in the high 12 range. The car hasn't failed to start since Thursday but i still don't trust it. The voltage reads 13.8 with the car running so it' probably not the alternator.
I can't seem to reproduce the problem so i'm reluctant to take it in & have them tell me there's nothing wrong. I'll start adding more miles each night & mabey by next week it'll go 100 mi without a problem.
Still leaning toward the ignition switch & i might just have it replaced on my own.
Thanks again.

Are you using the same key ?

[oakfarm]

Originally Posted by southphillylakes

Are you using the same key ?

Yes, same key all the time.

Skip, I'm going to pull the fuses this weekend. Thanks.

SOMETHING NEW???????
I pulled into the garage tonight after about a 20 mi drive, put it in park & the headlights go off & come back on before i shut the car off. WTF?
Voltage before ride-12.5, after-13.

This is why I got rid of my MGB.

[Bogie]

Originally Posted by oakfarm

Yes, same key all the time.

Skip, I'm going to pull the fuses this weekend. Thanks.

SOMETHING NEW???????
I pulled into the garage tonight after about a 20 mi drive, put it in park & the headlights go off & come back on before i shut the car off. WTF?
Voltage before ride-12.5, after-13.

Was your garage light on?

This might be a normal transition from lamps to daytime running. Does anyone know if there is a delay between headlamps turning off and daytime running kicking in.

[southphillylakes]

Originally Posted by oakfarm

Yes, same key all the time.

Skip, I'm going to pull the fuses this weekend. Thanks.

SOMETHING NEW???????
I pulled into the garage tonight after about a 20 mi drive, put it in park & the headlights go off & come back on before i shut the car off. WTF?
Voltage before ride-12.5, after-13.

This is why I got rid of my MGB.

Try a another key

[SkyBaby]

Originally Posted by Bogie

Was your garage light on?

This might be a normal transition from lamps to daytime running. Does anyone know if there is a delay between headlamps turning off and daytime running kicking in.

It is pretty much immediate... no delay for Jade.... but.. maybe she isnt the "norm".... SkyBaby