Tearin' Down a Red Line (SPIRIT)

[JohnD]

The Story So Far for those that want to catch up:

June 16th - SPIRIT Misfires: Misfire - SPIRIT chokes for the first time...
June 18th - Emergency Roadside Assistance Nightmare: Saturn "Emergency" Roadside Assistance
June 22nd - No Compression Discovered: Broken SPIRIT (but no panic yet.)
June 25th - First Dealer Visit: SPIRIT Update - Plugs and Bulletin
June 29th - Approval to Open the Head: SPIRIT Update - Green Light to Open 'er Up...
July 6th - I start this thread as they begin the teardown process
July 8th - I post a poll to guess the problem: What's Wrong with SPIRIT?

So far, as of July 12th, these threads have totalled more than TEN THOUSAND VIEWS.

Well I went to the dealership today and the good news is that they are FINALLY starting to tear down SPIRIT, and they have indeed found a problem. So here goes with the picures to answer all of the questions that have been coming up.

(I know Robotech said I didn't have to start a new thread every time, but with all these pictures I thought it would make sense to do so; I will add more teardown pictures as I take them...)

For starters, here's SPIRIT in the shop, now sans hood...

[JohnD]

There were some questions about the plugs... Are the electrodes supposed to be needle thin? Are the new plugs shorter than the old plugs?

Yes and No.

Pic one shows old plugs (left) and new plugs (right). Yes, they ran them for a bit before figuring out that the motor had a serious problem. Pic 2 shows the old and new to compare lengths. Looks the same to me...

[JohnD]

Here are the photos of a Red Line Engine with intake, intercooler pipes, and intake manifold removed. Also, without the hood in the way you are able to get a unique perspective...

[JohnD]

Here is the view of the driver's side of the engine with the Intake Manifold and Throttle Body removed...

[JohnD]

Here is the Intake Manifold and Throttle Body sitting on a workbench. Note the size of the checkerboard for scale reference...

[JohnD]

Why did I want you to note the size of the checkerboard for scale reference? Because of THIS in the photo below. This crap fell out of the intake manifold when they took it off.

It was STEEL and NOT Aluminum, so that rules out random pieces of the intake or intercooler pipes as these are made out of aluminum.

Could it be part of the piston? A valve? Some other foreign debris left in the intercooler or pipes during assembly? We will know more when the head comes off - probably on Monday. So with this stuff rattling around cylinder #1, I think we know what might have bent that spark plug...

[xmicro_Redline]

OK that's freakin scary. Where do you think the pieces came from?

[JohnD]

Originally Posted by xmicro_Redline

OK that's freakin scary. Where do you think the pieces came from?

We'll know more when the head comes off.

Being black on one side and silver on the other, I'm guessing from the piston... But it's anybody's guess at this point. And since they would have to defy gravity to make it into the intake manifold (yes, INTAKE manifold) I am guessing there is a lot more junk in cylinder #1.

[Skip]

I got this gut feeling that a valve stuck and popped the piston and then metal meltdown. Causing the engine to do what it did. I am very much interested to see 1: the cams and valves 2: the top of the pistons. I think that it got carbon build up bad and then predetonated till valve bent and then piston head came apart. Not your fault John. but this is going to get interesting. Dang I wish I was there and show this mechanic how to go a little faster. Skip..old maniac mechanic from the seventies. and no Fartblossom does not roam to the California area so she did not do it.

[Skip]

Picture of valve cover off and three pics close up of valve springs and cam on number one. Then pics of underside of head. and of piston at bottom dead center and top dead center of number one that is. It is interesting..Skip..can you see I like taking things apart? My old man would get pissed when he would get home and I would have the vols engine apart or a transmission all laid out...Then the question CAN YOU PUT IT BACK TOGETHER and I would say with my eyes closed...

[Skip]

Originally Posted by JohnD

We'll know more when the head comes off.

Being black on one side and silver on the other, I'm guessing from the piston... But it's anybody's guess at this point. And since they would have to defy gravity to make it into the intake manifold (yes, INTAKE manifold) I am guessing there is a lot more junk in cylinder #1.

Actually if number one intake valve came apart then you would see the pieces of metal back inside of the intake. Now how much went into the other cylinders from this you will find out...Skip..more pictures....

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Originally Posted by Skip

Actually if number one intake valve came apart then you would see the pieces of metal back inside of the intake....

Skip's on to something. If the bits are steel they did not come from the piston but a valve is a likely suspect. They are taking their sweet time in pulling the head. That will tell the story.

[Talz]

Originally Posted by Skip

My old man would get pissed when he would get home and I would have the vols engine apart or a transmission all laid out...Then the question CAN YOU PUT IT BACK TOGETHER and I would say with my eyes closed...

Putting a tranny back together with your eyes closed sounds like a good trick! Let's see the video, ah on second thought I changed my mind.

I actually considered rebuilding my own tranny once, until I opened it up and looked inside. Darned thing made an engine seem simple to work on!

[CJsSky]

Originally Posted by JohnD

We'll know more when the head comes off.

Being black on one side and silver on the other, I'm guessing from the piston... But it's anybody's guess at this point. And since they would have to defy gravity to make it into the intake manifold (yes, INTAKE manifold) I am guessing there is a lot more junk in cylinder #1.

JohnD,

Can't help but to get hung up on the appearance of the plugs. I have had many engines I have worked on from 2 stroke to 4 stroke. That #1 plug just looks lean compaired to the rest. I would not expect anything to clean it up once it was shorted out. I would expect it to be wet if anything. Did some one wipe it down before you took the pick? I haven't read every post. Has there been any mention as to the condition of the injectors. Are/were they fully functional?

Still leaning towards burnt piston.

I wish you all the luck. Saturn better step up and support their new car. They have let me down in the Arlington area. As far as I am concerned, they are on thin ice.

[kphelgerson]

Very interesting. More pictures, please.

[RedRedline]

So I'm sitting here minding my own business and the wife comes by...

What is that a picture of?

Me: An intake manifold off a sky

Her:WHY? would anyone take a picture of that?

Me: I am looking at it aren't I?

Her while walking out of room: I worry about you honey.

More pix John! enjoy the mistery, sorry for the misery.

J

[BlueSkyRL]

Very nice pics John. There only two things that are made of steel in that cylinder area...The valves (sodium filled) and the connecting rod Everything else is aluminum for the most part.

Right now I'm putting my money on a bad injector that might cause the lean look and overheating in the cylinder, etc. Maybe we should start a poll to see who's closest...sorta a way to lower the anticipation

[Ernest]

Looks like results of running to lean, which destroys a turbo'ed motor. Pre detonation? Looking forward to Monday.Interesting thought, possibly parts of turbine ingested into motor?