Transmission refuses 2nd and 3rd cold

[Mandi]

So my boyfriend and I took the Sky into Saturn of Des Moines (Iowa) the other fay for a transmission concern and the rear axle recall.

Recall went smoothly....no issues.

The transmission issue.....when cold start on days below 50 degrees, the transmission is hard to shift into second or third. Sometimes it will grind, sometimes it just takes a lot of effort, or it won't go at all. Even when warm, third gets to be tricky.

The car roughly has 4500 miles on it.....it had 2500 when new.

Saturn of Des Moines said it was normal. Here is the thing, my boyfriend is a tech at the local Chevrolet store and he agrees that its not right. However, being his store is Chevrolet only, he can't work on a Saturn.

The Saturn of Des Moines service department sucks. Even the boyfriend agrees they suck. Has anyone tried taking their Sky to Pontiac? Perhaps we can have better luck with them. I mean, they sell the same car....so they have all of the same special tools...which would null the reason given why a Chevrolet store can't work on one.

[Bogie]

Originally Posted by Mandi

Saturn of Des Moines said it was normal.

That is the standard answer all mechanics give a female. Unless you're blonde,then they'll tell you it's a feature.

Think about it. Your boyfriend is a mechanic. Think. How many times has he told you "Don't worry about that...it's normal".

[Mandi]

They told HIM it was normal......

[MidniteBlues]

Here's a thread with a similiar story. Altho manual tranny failures have been few and far between, there have been a hand full of failures reported on the forum. This one was the last one I read >>> Transmission Trouble When is enough going to be enough If you do a search, you'll find a few more. I think your car has a problem, donno if a Pontiac would work on it, had a couple of members mention that they do, it will depend on that dealer, ask them, it won't hurt. Otherwise find a different Saturn dealer that knows what is happening with this car, it's obvious where your going now is NOT acceptable..Good luck keep us posted.. BTW, the last few that had problems if I recall, had to have the entire tranny replaced.. Which sounds like is what you should have..

[CJsSky]

Originally Posted by Mandi

So my boyfriend and I took the Sky into Saturn of Des Moines (Iowa) the other fay for a transmission concern and the rear axle recall.

Recall went smoothly....no issues.

The transmission issue.....when cold start on days below 50 degrees, the transmission is hard to shift into second or third. Sometimes it will grind, sometimes it just takes a lot of effort, or it won't go at all. Even when warm, third gets to be tricky.

The car roughly has 4500 miles on it.....it had 2500 when new.

Saturn of Des Moines said it was normal. Here is the thing, my boyfriend is a tech at the local Chevrolet store and he agrees that its not right. However, being his store is Chevrolet only, he can't work on a Saturn.

The Saturn of Des Moines service department sucks. Even the boyfriend agrees they suck. Has anyone tried taking their Sky to Pontiac? Perhaps we can have better luck with them. I mean, they sell the same car....so they have all of the same special tools...which would null the reason given why a Chevrolet store can't work on one.

Originally Posted by MidniteBlues

Here's a thread with a similiar story. Altho manual tranny failures have been few and far between, there have been a hand full of failures reported on the forum. This one was the last one I read >>> Transmission Trouble When is enough going to be enough If you do a search, you'll find a few more. I think your car has a problem, donno if a Pontiac would work on it, had a couple of members mention that they do, it will depend on that dealer, ask them, it won't hurt. Otherwise find a different Saturn dealer that knows what is happening with this car, it's obvious where your going now is NOT acceptable..Good luck keep us posted.. BTW, the last few that had problems if I recall, had to have the entire tranny replaced.. Which sounds like is what you should have..

The thread Midniteblues refers to is mine. I had trouble with 2 transmissions. The first issue was the synchro in third gear. The second issue was the blocking ring. In both cases the "GM family" engineers reported back that the issues was the fault on the trans MFG.

As stated in my tranny thread, I have owned many manual trans cars over the years. I never had any issues with the tranny in those cars. It is my opinion that GM has tried a little too hard to cross match a tranny over to many of its product lines. Basically, this was not the best tranny to match to the Sky. At least, not without some improvements. This tranny needs more development work for higher RPM operation.

As far as the cold operation, I can say that I have noticed that the tranny is a little stiff in the morning. Try comparing the RPM range that you are shifting in when you start out on a cold morning. In short, shift through 2nd and 3rd below 3Krpm compared to over 3K rpm.


With all that said, I can report that my tranny is running well. It's unfortunate that three had to be a charm. Having a good dealership to work with was helpful. It sounds like, in your case, that you need call Saturn customer service. They are the intermediary for Saturn shops who will not make the effort. For the other shops that will not work on a Saturn, this is a shame. We are supposed to be one happy GM family.

[Mandi]

Its not so much a matter of the non-Saturn shops will not work on, its a matter of they can't. GM won't let them because they don't have the special tools.....so, if they would write up a ticket on it, GM won't pay the claim.

[Skip]

Mandi, do this for me and report back. On a flat surface. Ignition off, in neutral, shift to first with clutch pushed down. Still with clutch pushed down shift slowly through all the other gears but reverse do not engage. Does it shift easy? Now with no clutch shift through all the gears slowly and do not engage reverse gear. Does it move easy? You have just tested your transmission with no load on the gears and no clutch. Iffen you feel any resistance it could either be the block rings , which are matched up with the gears and are made of brass or it could be the dogs which are at the top of the synchros to give the click as it goes into gear. Iffen any of this , you feel a lot of resistance then you have transmission problems....please get back to me on the forum....Skip...

[Mandi]

The problem with testing a manual transmission with the engine off, is that there is no movement in the transmission....synchros are designed to work with rotation. When the transmission has no movement to it, the gears won't mess up properly and will give you a stiffer than normal feel.

-Chris 'The boyfriend.'

[BlueSkyRL]

Originally Posted by Mandi

The problem with testing a manual transmission with the engine off, is that there is no movement in the transmission....synchros are designed to work with rotation. When the transmission has no movement to it, the gears won't mess up properly and will give you a stiffer than normal feel.

-Chris 'The boyfriend.'

YES True, But what Skip is asking you to do is to see if you can get them into gear...because of the synchros, you should be able (with some effort) to get the gears to line up. (no movement needed)If you can't these's an issue

[Skip]

Look I have torn down many transmissions in my life. I always checked them out static before I tore them down. Everything will line up iffen you do as I said. It should be easy to shift after the gears all line up. But what do I know I was only a line mechanic for ten years at Nissan, Mazda, Dodge, and Ford...Skip....

[Mandi]

Synchros have nothing to do with static shifting....they just match the shaft speed to the gear speed so it can be locked to the shaft.......besides, it does that fine. I know what I'm doing and what I'm talking about...thats not the issue.

I was curious if anyone has ever taken anything to Pontiac on here.....so Mandi asked about it. Our sister dealership is a GMC/Buick/Pontiac shop. Nevermind though, I'll just ask when I get to work in the morning.

It just sucks that can't even hook a fellow tech up........and the next closest Saturn dealer is 2.5 hours away.

-Chris

[Gerry]

This is one of those things were Saturn is a bit different from the rest of the GM family. A warranty repair by the Pontiac dealer would have to be pre-approved by Saturn. You can't decide on your own that you'd rather have a non-Saturn dealer work on the car.

Your best bet is to work with Saturn customer service for a fix. All transmissions will be a little stiff in colder weather, but shouldn't present any significant difficulty in shifting to the point that it won't go into gear or it grinds the gears. There is clearly a problem in the syncro assembly. If it was normal, they'd all do it (and they don't) and there'd be a TSB stating that this is the way the trans works.

[silversolstice]

Is there any update with this transmission problem? My 2-3rd shift is rough as well.

[Iceman49]

Don't normally drive the SKY, but took it over to the dealer for the recall. Temp was in the mid to high 40s (Minnesota). Noticed that it was very difficult to get the trans into 2nd...I mentioned it to the dealer, they test drove it and had no problems, additionally I had no problems on the way home...but it had warmed up by then.

[vschaos]

Maybe try using a different tranny fluid? Who manufacturers the trannys in these cars? I dont have a redline yet, but will be getting on eventually. I just know in different friends car and my own we have had similar tranny problems. You can try adjusting the clutch pedal out some to give it more of a "throw" so to speak. Meaning when you move the pedal out some...when you press it in then it will disengage better. That generally solved most everyones problems in there cars and mine. To aid more I am using synthetic AmsOil automatic trans fluid in mine...love the stuff.

[Bruce]

Originally Posted by Mandi

So my boyfriend and I took the Sky into Saturn of Des Moines (Iowa) the other fay for a transmission concern and the rear axle recall.

Recall went smoothly....no issues.

The transmission issue.....when cold start on days below 50 degrees, the transmission is hard to shift into second or third. Sometimes it will grind, sometimes it just takes a lot of effort, or it won't go at all. Even when warm, third gets to be tricky.

The car roughly has 4500 miles on it.....it had 2500 when new.

Saturn of Des Moines said it was normal. Here is the thing, my boyfriend is a tech at the local Chevrolet store and he agrees that its not right. However, being his store is Chevrolet only, he can't work on a Saturn.

The Saturn of Des Moines service department sucks. Even the boyfriend agrees they suck. Has anyone tried taking their Sky to Pontiac? Perhaps we can have better luck with them. I mean, they sell the same car....so they have all of the same special tools...which would null the reason given why a Chevrolet store can't work on one.

Why not make the drive to some other Saturn dealership and get a second opinion?

[Lakeland]

I have my 2007 RL in the shop as we speak for an intermiate shifting issue.

I have found that 2 to 3rd I will get a miss shift and the tranny will grind.
I have to reclutch and it will then shift into third.

The dealer said if they could not replicate the problem then nothing really could be done about it.
From what I have read its seems like we are prone to tranny issues.

I might add its in the shop for the recall for the pinion seal, replacing all the trim plastics around the windshield, window seal on drivers side roof, impropper fitting roof, both front inner fenders, both rear tail lights, intermitate no start condition. possible throw bearing (making cherp noise when clutch is pressed).

I think I bought a friday car.....currently has 5000km

[seal9]

I had a problem going from 1 to 2nd.....read on the Sol forum this was common....and the fix for the shift was to replace the 75/85 gear oil (to heavy when cold) with some 50/65...talked to my tech at Saturn he said try Royal Purple sync manual trans oil.......works like a charm...I also ask if this would void my warranty he said it met factory requirments..???Seal9

[silversolstice]

I switched to the full synthetic mobil 1 75w-90 and can't really tell the difference. Isn't great at startup and a little smoother when warm. I didn't go with the thinner Royal Purple because one of the Sol guys said it was noisy and ended up going with the Mobil 1. I think its truck transmission and all the expensive gear oil is pretty perfume on an ugly broad.