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Technical Saturn Sky Discussion Technical and performance aspects of the Saturn Sky Roadster. Sky Problems | Solutions | Repairs | Recalls | Tech Bulletins | Tech Tips | In the Manual Basic Tech

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Old 02-23-2011, 02:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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V-8 Envy

So.... where to begin.... maybe I'll just start with bullet points and go from there.

-Obviously I'm not the only one lusting after Mallet and Werks, without going into too much detail here I'll just say.... I want one.

-I don't like the idea of turbo, supercharged, nitrous, or anything that pushes engines whether it's V8 or inline 4, I'd like to run an NA engine with nothing more than a good tune.

-I'm not a speed demon, I just love a good V8. That feel of instantaneous power at your feet. I'd be happy with an LS1, nothing too extravagant, I'm not looking to go as fast as possible here, just quick enough.

Problem 1: I don't live near Mallet or Werks and would not consider shipping my car anywhere or doing a one way road trip. I'd have to find a reliable engine swap shop in CA.

Problem 2: I can easily price out the parts I need and put money aside for them (engine, custom wiring harness, mechanical upgrades to support the larger and more powerful engine) but the real question comes when we talk about labor costs. Let's say I have all the parts sitting next to me right now.... what would your average shop charge for an engine swap if you provide them the engine and harness?

Problem 3: Let's say the engine swap is successful and it's now a V8 Kappa. What problems could there be down the road? And more importantly, of those problems, how can we further upgrade the car to prevent them from happening to begin with? Preventative mechanical maintenance would be my ideal situation.

The V8 Sky is my dream car, I don't fall asleep at night and dream of driving Ferraris or Lambos or anything of the sort, I dream of having a V8 dropped into the Sky and keeping it for a lifetime; daily driving it, car show(ing) it, and running it on and around the track. Any and all advice is greatly appreciated, along with other bullet points that I may have missed or be ignorant of. Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Do u dream in color or black and white? It makes all the difference.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Do you want the V8 for the sound?

If you want it for performance then just get a Trifecta tune, Intake, IC and pipes, highflow DP and cat, and 3" exhaust. If you have the Redline.

That will net you about 300 whp and 340+ torque at the wheels. Which is about 340 to the crank and about 400 Torque at the crank.

The LS2 at 400 HP is only 340 to the wheels, don't know the torque but it should be simular.

So the HP should be just about even. Past 120 in the car it's really dicy unless you have the top up and even then it is iffy at 150. The car is not really made for high speeds with the top up or down.

Now unless you are going to put a higher power LS motor in the car. Yet you will probably have a front baised weight issue and it will compromise cornering performance with a heavier motor and you will understeer.

If you want the V8 sound then install the V8 should be a great sounding car.

Yet, I drive my car insane all the time and I get 20 MPG all the time. I know the LSx does gets good gas mileage, but as soon as you put your foot in it that is gone. I know in CA that gas is not cheap. The 2.0 Direct Injected motor is much more advanced than the LSx motor in making power and economy.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:31 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Well, I dream in black and white.... but for some reason my car is bright red in my dreams in a world that's black and white =P

And like I said before, my dream car is a naturally aspirating V8 Sky. The sound would be nice, but I want it for the power combined with simplicity of an engine without attachments. No sensors, no boost, no spray, nothing but the engine itself.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I have to agree that a tuned LNF is very close to many V8 swaps in terms of performance. But the guys that pay $10-12,000 for a V8, aren't doing it to get the extra .2 seconds off the 1/4 time, they are doing it because they are 'V8 heads' for whom nothing else will do.

Whatever the shop you talk to quotes you, add at least 50% fudge factor and if you get away with just the added 50% consider yourself lucky. It is almost impossible to give a realistic quote on work like that.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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No sensors
= illegal in all 50 states. Good luck sticking a carbbed engine into a modern car and being legal. And if it is a complete modern LS injected engine, you are going to have sensors. Lots of them!
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Forget about what everyone else is telling u...to change to a V8...this is basically a BODY OFF restoration...everything is changed from your suspension down to everything...and everything else...do not worry about your sensors because they r no longer there...

The Mallet gets 12 MPG...if u got the money...DO IT! PERIOD. Otherwise, this is procrastination.

Start DREAMING in GREEN
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The Mallet gets 12 MPG...if u got the money...DO IT! PERIOD. Otherwise, this is procrastination. Start DREAMING in GREEN
Actually I get 14 MPG city and 22 MPG highway, but I could care less about mileage, I just love my V8 Sky.
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Should go drive a C5 Corvette. Gets almost as good a gas mileage a the Sky and can probably be had for not much more than $15,000.
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I don't mean to seem ungrateful for most of the responses, but the reason why I bullet pointed things like this being my dream car, not wanting a turbo/supercharger/nitrous under any circumstances, etc. was to avoid responses telling me to go tune my current car, do a turbo upgrade, or buy a Corevette =/

The problem with buying a Corvette is; how would I get a Sky Body onto a Corvette Chassis to make my dream car? As I stated, the V8 Sky is my dream car, not a Corvette (otherwise I would have bought one since C5 coupes were cheaper than the Sky when I did) so I have no idea what buying a C5 Corvette would accomplish here =/

So just because you can tune an inline 4 Sky to be faster than a V8 Sky, does not mean that's what I'm trying to do. I would just call Trifecta if that was the case.

I do appreciate the concern, as if I was just after the speed, I would go upgrade and tune my current engine, but as I've stated that's not what this is about. I'm just in this topic to educate myself about what will be involved so I know what to expect when I have the budget saved to do this. I'd like to avoid being ignorant on the issue and becoming prone to bad surprises that a little research could have saved me beforehand.

"What do you mean my _____ broke? It couldn't handle a V8? Oh, wish I had known that beforehand, I would have saved up extra money and installed that before I put in the new engine"

Again, I'm not trying to be arrogant, ungrateful, stubborn, or argue what is better between a V8 and a tuned turbo I4. But I know what I want for me personally when it comes to my dream can and am just trying to avoid ignorance on the details of it for when the time comes.

And thank you RedSkyMan, that comment does help because now I know a ballpark range for the MPG which I can add to my 'to be expected' list
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I am a couple of weeks away from receiving home Punisher, DDM LS3 376/480 conversion #1

I looked at every provider I could identify. The basic cost runs from a low of $18k to a high of $25k depending on which motor and if you retain the A/C

The conversion process is very well documented on Wades website. The motor fits in directly with little to no mods but with custom mounts. The transmission is generally a new 6 speed direct bolt up. Custom drive shaft. The clutch is hydraulic and factory mechanism can be reused, with some modification.

a new larger radiator is required. As is a purpose built exhaust.

Generally you can not tell from the outside that the change has been made.

The NA ECM is directly compatible with the LS while the GXP ECM requires some custom cabling to match up with the motor.

There is a thread on the Sol side discussing weight. wade shows before and after numbers that suggest a minor weight gain. Less than 200 pounds and maybe closer to half that depending on who you believe.

Dave synod my GXP at 305 HP at the wheels. The LS should produce about 410 or so. worth it? He'll no. But I chose to pay the money
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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But I chose to pay the money
Rob chose GREEN...he is Politically Correct.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Whatever you do not say that in front of my wife. She thinks I am the poster child for INCORRECT. I keep telling her I am a certified diversity instructor, yet to no avail..
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:03 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm starting to think that a tuned LF3 would be the way to go over a V8 swap. Assuming of course that it would fit in a sky and isn't just a rumor.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
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LF3 looks interesting, but as that's a twin turbo it gets him even further from one of his bullet points.
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