Watch what you do in upgrades or changes with electrical

[SkyBaby]

since Jade has new headlights.. and a WindRestrictor... GM said my electrical warrenty is VOID.... STRAIGHT FROM GM... IF YOU CHANGE OR ALTER, ADD OR OTHERWISE DO ANY ELECTRICAL WORK ON YOUR VEHICLE YOUR ELECTRICAL WARRENTY IS VOID, PERIOD......... SO......... unless you want to spend THOUSANDS of dollars on finding issues if they come up...


LEAVE YOUR SKY STOCK as far as electrical...


Even though ALL these issues were BEFORE THE LIGHTS, WINDRESTRICTOR.. ETC..... they dont care and wont fix a thing. I AM DONE WITH THIS BS. SkyBaby

[Stupidbikerboy]

Could you show reciepts with the dates you purchased this stuff versus the first date you reported the issues?

[SkyBaby]

Originally Posted by Stupidbikerboy

Could you show reciepts with the dates you purchased this stuff versus the first date you reported the issues?

We asked and the lady said... it dont matter when the issue started ...once you change ANYTHING electrical the warranty if VOID.... he said he would fax the receipts.... they dont care..


I personally feel, they see an out with my LEMON OF A SKY that they jumped on it.... Well... I am going to retain a lawyer and not mess with this.. and it wont be the Lemon Law.. .not as one would think... but I was told that THEY... GM has to PROVE that MY CHANGES ARE A DIRECT CAUSE OF THE ISSUES.... it is called the Magnusson Moss Act.... SkyBaby

[Stupidbikerboy]

Originally Posted by SkyBaby

We asked and the lady said... it dont matter when the issue started ...once you change ANYTHING electrical the warranty if VOID.... he said he would fax the receipts.... they dont care..


I personally feel, they see an out with my LEMON OF A SKY that they jumped on it.... Well... I am going to retain a lawyer and not mess with this.. and it wont be the Lemon Law.. .not as one would think... but I was told that THEY... GM has to PROVE that MY CHANGES ARE A DIRECT CAUSE OF THE ISSUES.... it is called the Magnusson Moss Act.... SkyBaby

Thats how I understand it also. Sorry to hear about all these problems you are having. I hope GM mans up for you.

[Druid-2]

well you may have a problem there.....

************
The Act provides that any warrantor warranting a consumer product to a consumer by means of a written warranty must disclose, fully and conspicuously, in simple and readily understood language, the terms and conditions of the warranty to the extent required by rules of the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC has enacted regulations governing the disclosure of written consumer product warranty terms and conditions on consumer products actually costing the consumer more than $15. The Rules can be found at 16 C.F.R. Part 700.


GM did their part...from your first post...IF YOU CHANGE OR ALTER, ADD OR OTHERWISE DO ANY ELECTRICAL WORK ON YOUR VEHICLE YOUR ELECTRICAL WARRENTY IS VOID, PERIOD

how can you use the M-M Act when they (GM) put their restrictions in writing

[SkyBaby]

Originally Posted by Druid-2

well you may have a problem there.....

************
The Act provides that any warrantor warranting a consumer product to a consumer by means of a written warranty must disclose, fully and conspicuously, in simple and readily understood language, the terms and conditions of the warranty to the extent required by rules of the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC has enacted regulations governing the disclosure of written consumer product warranty terms and conditions on consumer products actually costing the consumer more than $15. The Rules can be found at 16 C.F.R. Part 700.


GM did their part...from your first post...IF YOU CHANGE OR ALTER, ADD OR OTHERWISE DO ANY ELECTRICAL WORK ON YOUR VEHICLE YOUR ELECTRICAL WARRENTY IS VOID, PERIOD

how can you use the M-M Act when they (GM) put their restrictions in writing

The issues were there BEFORE the changes were made..... and continue to be there! SkyBaby

[dengel]

Originally Posted by Druid-2

well you may have a problem there.....

************
The Act provides that any warrantor warranting a consumer product to a consumer by means of a written warranty must disclose, fully and conspicuously, in simple and readily understood language, the terms and conditions of the warranty to the extent required by rules of the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC has enacted regulations governing the disclosure of written consumer product warranty terms and conditions on consumer products actually costing the consumer more than $15. The Rules can be found at 16 C.F.R. Part 700.


GM did their part...from your first post...IF YOU CHANGE OR ALTER, ADD OR OTHERWISE DO ANY ELECTRICAL WORK ON YOUR VEHICLE YOUR ELECTRICAL WARRENTY IS VOID, PERIOD

how can you use the M-M Act when they (GM) put their restrictions in writing

ummm, I don't think Aubrey is quoting a written warranty document in her post. She is stating what they "told" her was the reason for their refusal to repair her car. Whether they told her verbally or in writing, if that is what they are saying NOW, that does not mean she was "told" that at the time of purchase, when she was first delivered the car and any applicable warranty documentation.

[Bogie]

Originally Posted by SkyBaby

LEAVE YOUR SKY STOCK as far as electrical...

Actually, I would recommend going a bit further. Leave it stock (period!) for the first six months or so. Most "Lemon" problems are going to manifest themselves early in the ownership period. Anything you change can be used against a claim, especially if the thing you changed is connected in some why to the thing that is causing a problem.

***IANAL***
That said, under law, GM needs to be able to show by the preponderance of evidence that the problem was caused by your modifications. The problem for the owner is in order to put GM in a position to prove their position, you probably need to take them to court. And if you do that, you need to be prepared to show why the changes made did not cause the problem.
***IANAL***

[dengel]

Some info from the owner's manual:

Add-On Electrical Equipment
Notice: Do not add anything electrical to your
vehicle unless you check with your dealer
first. Some electrical equipment can damage
your vehicle and the damage would not
be covered by your warranty. Some add-on
electrical equipment can keep other
components from working as they should.
Add-on equipment can drain your vehicle’s battery,
even if your vehicle is not operating.
Your vehicle has an airbag system. Before
attempting to add anything electrical to your
vehicle, see Servicing Your Airbag-Equipped
Vehicle on page 54.

Note that this does not state than any electrical modifications will automatically void your warranty - only that some "may" cause damage that would not be covered under warranty.

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by Bogie

Actually, I would recommend going a bit further. Leave it stock (period!) for the first six months or so. Most "Lemon" problems are going to manifest themselves early in the ownership period. Anything you change can be used against a claim, especially if the thing you changed is connected in some why to the thing that is causing a problem.

***IANAL***
That said, under law, GM needs to be able to show by the preponderance of evidence that the problem was caused by your modifications. The problem for the owner is in order to put GM in a position to prove their position, you probably need to take them to court. And if you do that, you need to be prepared to show why the changes made did not cause the problem.
***IANAL***

Are you an attorney? Look, there is a paper trail that PROVES a pre-existing condition. It is all too common for manufacturers of all sorts to use this ploy to intimidate a complainant. The burden of proof is on GM.

This lesson here is to de-mod the car before it goes to the dealer, if at all practical.

[Druid-2]

Originally Posted by SkyBaby

The issues were there BEFORE the changes were made..... and continue to be there! SkyBaby

well I guess you information from this guy is better than i've got
(I'll retreat)

Christopher L. Brinkley practices in the areas of product liability and personal injury litigation, as well as enforcement of foreign judgments and consumer class actions. The majority of Mr. Brinkley's practice involves representing victims of automotive defects.

Mr. Brinkley received his bachelor's degree in aerospace engineering from the University of Oklahoma and his law degree from the University of Tulsa . He is admitted to the state bars of West Virginia , Missouri , Georgia , and Arkansas , as well as numerous federal courts, and has been admitted pro hac vice in many other jurisdictions. Mr. Brinkley is a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers, the West Virginia and Georgia Trial Lawyers Associations, Public Justice, and the American Association for Justice, in which he has chaired two separate litigation groups. He is also a frequent speaker and author on the topics of engineering and product liability litigation.

[SkyBaby]

Originally Posted by Bogie

Actually, I would recommend going a bit further. Leave it stock (period!) for the first six months or so. Most "Lemon" problems are going to manifest themselves early in the ownership period. Anything you change can be used against a claim, especially if the thing you changed is connected in some why to the thing that is causing a problem.

***IANAL***
That said, under law, GM needs to be able to show by the preponderance of evidence that the problem was caused by your modifications. The problem for the owner is in order to put GM in a position to prove their position, you probably need to take them to court. And if you do that, you need to be prepared to show why the changes made did not cause the problem.
***IANAL***

The car was kept Stock for a very long time..... the only thing I hooked up but for a brief time was last sept , i think right before the dells.. was my wind restrictor and .... I asked the dealership about it and they said... Lots of you Sky folks have them and they havnt caused issues.... and before I put the HIDs on.... I was told that if the wiring was right, there should be no issue with that either.

Originally Posted by dengel

Some info from the owner's manual:



Note that this does not state than any electrical modifications will automatically void your warranty - only that some "may" cause damage that would not be covered under warranty.

I am just frustrated that they didnt even BOTHER to look into it.... just ASSUMED that since there were HIDs and the WindRestrictor.. well, that lets them off the hook.... I dont think so... I am ready to scream... and just coming from this latest surgery.. I really dont need this chaos. SkyBaby

[WVSooner]

Here's the relevant part of the statute -

15 U.S.C. 2304 (c) Waiver of standards - The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance).

[dengel]

Here is the exact wording from the Pontiac website regarding alterations and warranty coverage. I assume since it is a GM warranty, it is the same for Saturn:

An Important Note about Alterations and Warranties
Installations or alterations to the original equipment vehicle (or chassis) as distributed by General Motors are not covered by the General Motors New-Vehicle Limited Warranty. The special body company, assembler, equipment installer, or upfitter is solely responsible for warranties on the body or equipment and any alterations (or any effect of the alterations) to any of the parts, components, systems, or assemblies installed by GM. General Motors is not responsible for the safety or quality of design features, materials, or workmanship of any alterations by such suppliers.

I still think GM needs to provide some sort of explanation of how the HIDs or Wind Restrictor caused the problems, but as others stated, it probably means taking them to court to get a resolution.

[RedSkyMan]

According to this the burden of proof is the dealership's responsibility.


No aftermarket part or accessory that is properly installed on your vehicle will entirely void your original vehicle manufacturers warranty. According to the provisions in the Magnuson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act, It is the dealership's responsibility to prove that your modification directly caused or affected the failure you are trying to resolve. With that said, some dealerships are more performance-oriented than others and are more willing to work with customers.

Warranty-related materials, published by the new vehicle manufacturers, state that the installation of aftermarket parts have no effect on the warranty unless such equipment causes the problem that leads to the warranty claim. Nonetheless, some dealers have improperly denied warranty claims even though the claim had nothing to do with aftermarket parts. I.E., just because you install an exhaust system, your suspension failure warranty claim cannot be denied. If you experience a problem with an uncooperative dealership, point out the provisions of the this "FEDERAL ACT". For more information call your vehicle manufacturer or click on the link above to go directly to the Federal Trade Commission's website to find out more about this law.

[MaverickFlash]

Originally Posted by WVSooner

15 U.S.C. 2304 (c) Waiver of standards - The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance).

Exactly! .

[SkyBaby]

Originally Posted by RedSkyMan

According to this the burden of proof is the dealership's responsibility.


No aftermarket part or accessory that is properly installed on your vehicle will entirely void your original vehicle manufacturers warranty. According to the provisions in the Magnuson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act, It is the dealership's responsibility to prove that your modification directly caused or affected the failure you are trying to resolve. With that said, some dealerships are more performance-oriented than others and are more willing to work with customers.

Warranty-related materials, published by the new vehicle manufacturers, state that the installation of aftermarket parts have no effect on the warranty unless such equipment causes the problem that leads to the warranty claim. Nonetheless, some dealers have improperly denied warranty claims even though the claim had nothing to do with aftermarket parts. I.E., just because you install an exhaust system, your suspension failure warranty claim cannot be denied. If you experience a problem with an uncooperative dealership, point out the provisions of the this "FEDERAL ACT". For more information call your vehicle manufacturer or click on the link above to go directly to the Federal Trade Commission's website to find out more about this law.

It was the engineer who said this.. and from what I understand he/she seen that I had HIDs and the windrestrictor and quit looking further... THAT IS BS. SkyBaby