Weird rear-end noise (not that kind)

[RenoSky]

My 2007 2.4 has the dreaded LS differential. I've done the rear pinion seal replacement under warranty due to a leak (last September), followed by the "new and improved" repeat fix (repeat leak) via the recall this past spring. I'm starting to see the signs of new rear-end juice dribbles on the garage floor.

Most troubling is the scary noise that only seems to happen when the car has been parked for several hours.... startup, backout of the driveway or parking spot and crank the steering over to drive off. As soon as the car starts turning I hear a God-awful groaning and grinding sound from the rear.

Pretty sure it is the differential, I hear the sound from the side where the rear wheels would be turning fastest as the car turns.

Here's my questions:

Has anyone else had this happen?
If so, how was it resolved?
How am I going to be able to "demonstrate" the problem to the dealer?
Or, is this so common that they'll know what I'm talking aboout.

Lastly, What does it take to trigger Saturn finally just replacing the differential, and is there a new redesign that eliminates this crap?

[Kappa Fan]

First - when they did the recall did they drain your differential?
Second - if they drained it - when they refilled did they add the LSD additive?

This can all be found on your work order.

If they did drain and NOT fill using the LSD additive you are experiencing the Clutch Pack Binding sound and there is a TSB for this. The dealer should be able to bring that up and fix your problem easily.

[CRUX]

Hey Reno, check out the attachment at this thread... Manual Transmission Linkage NOISE Mystery

[waters009]

Did you get this problem fixed, if so what was it? I think I'm having the same problems. Need to get to the dealer, just wasn't sure how urgent it is.

[compdoc777]

Yes the omious rubber doughnut on our drive line. This was the a weak point in the 1980's Fiat Spyders. Leave it to GM to continue the saga. If the the rubber doughnut on the drive shaft gets tears or cracks in it it will begin to make noise and cause driveline vibrations.

I think it is there to keep the diff in good shape if you launch hard enough you will break the doughnut and not the rear end.

Craptastick design if you ask me!

I think I may sell my car and get a Saturn Vue Redline.

[RenoSky]

Originally Posted by waters009

Did you get this problem fixed, if so what was it? I think I'm having the same problems. Need to get to the dealer, just wasn't sure how urgent it is.

I've been travelling a lot this summer so I haven't wanted to tie the car up in the shop while I am home. Probably going to go in early September, 30K service and a look at the rear. One of the other posts in this thread asked if the proper fluid additive had been put in when the recall work was done. I checked the service order and it says that it was.

Doesn't seem to be getting significantly worse. The noise is most noticable when I back down my driveway and swing out into the street in the morning, turning the wheel hard over and pivoting on the rear axle seems to really give the differential a workout. Fairly loud and rumbly growl and groan from the rear, likewise when I turn back the other way to drive off.

I've read other folks mentioning that their's makes this noise when turning a tight series of S-turns at walking speed in a parking lot. Mine does this, too... but not nearly as much as it does first thing when it is cold.

I'll let you know how it works out... anybody else had similar?

[xmicro_Redline]

Originally Posted by RenoSky

I've been travelling a lot this summer so I haven't wanted to tie the car up in the shop while I am home. Probably going to go in early September, 30K service and a look at the rear. One of the other posts in this thread asked if the proper fluid additive had been put in when the recall work was done. I checked the service order and it says that it was.

Doesn't seem to be getting significantly worse. The noise is most noticable when I back down my driveway and swing out into the street in the morning, turning the wheel hard over and pivoting on the rear axle seems to really give the differential a workout. Fairly loud and rumbly growl and groan from the rear, likewise when I turn back the other way to drive off.

I've read other folks mentioning that their's makes this noise when turning a tight series of S-turns at walking speed in a parking lot. Mine does this, too... but not nearly as much as it does first thing when it is cold.

I'll let you know how it works out... anybody else had similar?

Well one way to get it replaced is to drive it until it gets so bad, they HAVE TO replace it! I have read about these issues somewhere on the forum. You are not alone and some have had a complete replacement already!

[cerberus]

Originally Posted by RenoSky

Doesn't seem to be getting significantly worse. The noise is most noticable when I back down my driveway and swing out into the street in the morning, turning the wheel hard over and pivoting on the rear axle seems to really give the differential a workout. Fairly loud and rumbly growl and groan from the rear, likewise when I turn back the other way to drive off.

I've read other folks mentioning that their's makes this noise when turning a tight series of S-turns at walking speed in a parking lot. Mine does this, too... but not nearly as much as it does first thing when it is cold.

I'll let you know how it works out... anybody else had similar?

Sounds like binding clutch packs in the diff. Typical service approach is the replace the fluid and drive it a bit. If it still makes the sound on that service visit, service typically orders a new diff. Mine did as you describe, and that was the steps and outcome. No problems since. Keep us posted.

[RenoSky]

Ok, summer is winding down so I decide it's time to leave the car at the dealership for service and a "final" fix to the death-noise coming out of the rear. Since my last post the noise continued as described, gradually getting worse and more constant during walking-speed tight turns (parking, etc). I am of course still thinking differential.

The service manager listens to my description and askes me to leave the car for a couple of days. They call me late on day two, "all fixed". (?!?!)

{a little history for those of you following along at home... I replaced the vent seal in the LSD last September under warranty AND completed the new and improved repair under recall in March, post-surgery leaks within 6 weeks both times}

So, here's their story... the noise was from my rear shocks. My car was built with the performance suspension option and they replaced both Bilstien rear shocks. Oddly, though my car has 37k miles they replaced them under warranty...

They also drained and refilled the LSD and replaced the vent tube and the seal (again).

Well, I'm thinking "no way" is this solving the problem.... but sonofagun, the noise is gone.

Fellow forumites, here's my questions: Who thinks shock absorbers would make noise when there is absolutely no suspension travel? Did the fluid swap temporarily quiet the differential? What now?

[MDSkyGirl]

Im new, here. But wanted to check the forum out before I go crazy with the stupid noise. It started out like the front tires rubbing while turning in a parking lot. Got worse, all slow driving, in parking lots, slowing down to turn at an innersection, coasting downhill,....slam, slam, slam,, slam.... finally took it to dealer. Left for it for 3 days. Guess what their fix is????? I need to Drive faster. Not kidding. They told me I need to drive faster...that the car is supposed to not just be coasting....So, Im supposed to be revving up as Im driving in the parking lot. Unbelievable....betcha that 2009 sitting in the lot, doesnt bang like mine does...

I have 60K on my 2007, Chili Pepper, Lil Red...

So , I see new shocks fixed one of them. That still working?

[RenoSky]

Originally Posted by MDSkyGirl

Im new, here. But wanted to check the forum out before I go crazy with the stupid noise. It started out like the front tires rubbing while turning in a parking lot. Got worse, all slow driving, in parking lots, slowing down to turn at an innersection, coasting downhill,....slam, slam, slam,, slam.... finally took it to dealer. Left for it for 3 days. Guess what their fix is????? I need to Drive faster. Not kidding. They told me I need to drive faster...that the car is supposed to not just be coasting....So, Im supposed to be revving up as Im driving in the parking lot. Unbelievable....betcha that 2009 sitting in the lot, doesnt bang like mine does...

I have 60K on my 2007, Chili Pepper, Lil Red...

So , I see new shocks fixed one of them. That still working?

I've been driving with the new shocks for over two weeks now and so far no repeat of the noise. It's intersesting that you perceived your noise coming from the front wheels at first, too. That was my original impression, probably because the noise happened only when I was cranking the wheel hard over. After driving S-turns in a quiet parking lot with the top down I isolated the noise in the rear. Then I heard it there all the time.

You retailer's "drive faster" suggestion is a bunch of crap. Something is making that noise. Does your differential leak?

[RickyD]

Well Saturn has a fix for it at least for a little while.
PM BigPhil next time you see him on. But Saturn has issues a information bulletin to fix the noise in the rear end. What is done is the fluid is drained, new straight gear oil installed with no additive then they take it out and go around in a circle about 10 times in both directions. Then they bring it back in drain it again, re-fill it this time with new additive as well and it will be gone. NO (unless your car is still under the 3/36000 warranty) does your power train warranty cover fluid change. Yes it is part of the power train but unless it actually breaks it is not covered so you will have to pay for the fluid but may be able to sweet talk the dealer into doing it for you when doing other maintenance. Big Phil, it worked on mine since you did it but now it is back again. Maybe we can double check the level when I bring it in for my oil change next time.

[MDSkyGirl]

No, never had the leak. Got the notice of recall. Took it in, never had a leak ever. But sure do have the noise. Believe it or not, the dealer actually said at first they didnt hear what I was talking about. I made them go drive it again, slowly around the parking lot. Then they heard it. So we are still banging along. Guess Ill try another Saturn dealer or can I go to any GM dealer for this repair? I think I might just print this forum when I go in to at least show it is a problem for lots of Sky owners...Ill have to tell them to check the shocks too.

[RickyD]

In the next few days I will stop in and get the service bulletin number so you can have the dealer look it up ok.

[DURAMAX]

I have not looked at my service manual yet to see what type of ls the Sky has but this is common on 1 GM type. It uses a drum with weights on lt that is driven by one of the side gears. The weights flip out at a predetermined speed and catch on a notch. That causes the side gear to climb a ramp and squeeze the clutch pack. When the fluid is cold and thick it will pull the weights out and lock the clutches. It will only do this in one direction as the weights wont catch the fluid in the other direction. The idea behind the system is it acts like an open diff until a LS is needed. Changing the diff fluid to the synthetic that comes in the heavy duty pickups will solve the problem as it is not as temp sensitive.

[MDSkyGirl]

Thanks,,,the bulletin would be great! Seems like Im having a new problem now. At higher speeds 65-80mph..Im getting a large circlular "wobble" to the right, in the whole motion of the car...this is new since replacing tires. Not coming from the front end or tires..def coming from the back. Any chance anyone thinks this could be related to the noise in the differential? All that flipping of weights and hooking on notches...sounds like it could create a wobble....maybe??? Tire guys...say..."no problem with tires....Call Saturn".....yeah..right. Gotta tell ya, when the car starts looping to the right...all by itself...its a little scary.

[GaryH]

Originally Posted by RickyD

Well Saturn has a fix for it at least for a little while.
PM BigPhil next time you see him on. But Saturn has issues a information bulletin to fix the noise in the rear end. What is done is the fluid is drained, new straight gear oil installed with no additive then they take it out and go around in a circle about 10 times in both directions. Then they bring it back in drain it again, re-fill it this time with new additive as well and it will be gone. NO (unless your car is still under the 3/36000 warranty) does your power train warranty cover fluid change. Yes it is part of the power train but unless it actually breaks it is not covered so you will have to pay for the fluid but may be able to sweet talk the dealer into doing it for you when doing other maintenance. Big Phil, it worked on mine since you did it but now it is back again. Maybe we can double check the level when I bring it in for my oil change next time.

They tried the fluid change/additive thing with mine and it did not work. Changed the clutch packs and the problem was solved. So far.