WOW! 3M clear bra damage pics

[MBVette]

Originally Posted by fershy

These films are most certainly UV protected. If they were not, they would disintegrate after a very short time period.
fershy

well yes, but it would not be enough to protect your paint from fading much less than the paint w/o the film

[Howard Golding]

I see that 3M is mentioned a lot concerning the bra but what about the company called Kappsphere who also has the bra that fits the Sky. Is their product as good as 3M. Please let me know what is the best.
Howard Golding
2008 Black Sky Redline

[eddf]

What are the most vulnerable areas of the Sky?

I found an installer in Seattle for VentureShield who got good reviews in a BMW forum.

Before I ask for a quote I'd like to know what areas are the most important to cover.

Ed

[RedlineBlue]

The design of the sky throws rocks from the front wheel in front of the REAR fender in front of the rear tire even with front splash guards. Take a look at any sky closely and you will see tiny chip marks in front of the rear fender. If you do a search here you will find a few threads about it. Saturn even sells film for the sky in this area.

Areas I suggest (the same as what Saturn and Kappasphere sells):
Behind the front fender on the bottom of the panel
Under the doors
In FRONT of the REAR fender

You can of course do the front of the bumper and hood for normal damage from debris.

[Bogie]

Originally Posted by eddf

What are the most vulnerable areas of the Sky?

Everywhere!

Seriously, about 90% of my damage is on the hood. I've had the car 10 months. Got about 20 rock pings and many more micro hits at the very front of hood. No dents. Nothing through the primer. Some knocked off the clearcoat. Some penetrated to the primer. Can't see 'em from a distance, but if you come up close, they stand out. Hope to do touch up soon.

A bra should protect the micro hits at the very front and any rock hits up to wherever the bra stops. But no place on the hood is sacred. So unless you bra the entire hood, you will get one where there isn't bra sooner or later.

Also, the front chrome takes a beating too.

The rear quarter panels in front of rear tires like to pick up micro hits down low at the flare points.

[Howard Golding]

What is the problem with putting on the vinyl bra? It is now made for the Sky and it is a lot less expensive than the clear bra. I just ordered one for my Redline. It won't fade and I can remove it when I want to. Covers for you.com and Covercraft now have them. I priced the clear bra and it is in my opinion out of line price wise. I think the vinyl bra adds a little meanness to the look of the car.

[SCVanguard]

Originally Posted by Howard Golding

What is the problem with putting on the vinyl bra? It is now made for the Sky and it is a lot less expensive than the clear bra. I just ordered one for my Redline. It won't fade and I can remove it when I want to. Covers for you.com and Covercraft now have them. I priced the clear bra and it is in my opinion out of line price wise. I think the vinyl bra adds a little meanness to the look of the car.

When you get it in and installed...post some pics on here. I'm interested to see what it looks like in the real world.

[smithb]

I have had a generic clear bra on my car for over a year now. I got it on ebay and think I spent around $40 for the whole thing shipped, and it probably took 3 hours or so to install one Saturday with my wife's help(however, the more you do it the faster you get). All the clear bras are the same no matter how much they cost. Some companies put their name on it and charge a lot more, but it is the same material. The only difference is the thickness. When I put it on and posted here, a bunch of people (mostly people selling $700 ones) said it was crap and it would turn yellow, crack, and peel off. A year later you can't even tell it is on. My car is red and no one has ever seen it and said anything to me. I always have to point it out. I even took it in to get estimates for the trade, and I had to point it out to all the appraisers. When I got mine, the did not have a kit for the rocker panels, I bought extra material (about $2/foot) and cut my own. All the sections are still in perfect shape, however, there are a few spots I've seen that have taken rocks and scuffed the plastic (you can only see it when you are washing and have the right light), so I know it works. 2 spots I've found took a rock and cut the plastic. One was on the corner of the bumper and the other was just in front the driver's wheel well. I would say it saves lot of rock chips. The other advantage is it makes it a lot easier to clean bugs off the front. Installing does make your back sore, but I just bought a new Cadillac CTS and put in on there as soon as I got it. They are great and you can't beat it for $40.

[Bogie]

I just love the targeted advertisement we have on this site. It picks up the subject matter of a thread, and loads adverstisements based on the subject. Here is a copy of the banner ad I found at the bottom of this thread when reading the forum a few minutes ago:

[MidniteBlues]

Originally Posted by Howard Golding

What is the problem with putting on the vinyl bra? It is now made for the Sky and it is a lot less expensive than the clear bra. I just ordered one for my Redline. It won't fade and I can remove it when I want to. Covers for you.com and Covercraft now have them. I priced the clear bra and it is in my opinion out of line price wise. I think the vinyl bra adds a little meanness to the look of the car.

I had one of these on my White Porsche 924 S. And it did an adequate job to be honest you, I never really ever took it off and was never into the level of detailing I am today my my current flock. When I bought the Sky I looked for a vinyl bra after I saw the beating the bumper & hood were getting after a couple of months. Found out that none were made at the time. Then in talking to my guys in the Saturn body shop, several guys said not to use it because of several problems over time. One is fit & finish. If it is not properly made & super tight when installed, they tend to "flap" in the wind, thereby damaging the paint finish over time. Then the other problem again over time is that they stretch out, again losing the fit part of it, and they start to flap again.. The other negative is that dirt and debris can get under and beneath it, thereby acting like "sand-paper" and basically & in general sanding the paint underneath it.. Another drawback, it only protects the front partial hood & bumper depending on its design, no mirrors, no head lights and no rear rocker panels..

Originally Posted by smithb

I have had a generic clear bra on my car for over a year now. I got it on ebay and think I spent around $40 for the whole thing shipped, and it probably took 3 hours or so to install one Saturday with my wife's help(however, the more you do it the faster you get). All the clear bras are the same no matter how much they cost. Some companies put their name on it and charge a lot more, but it is the same material. The only difference is the thickness. When I put it on and posted here, a bunch of people (mostly people selling $700 ones) said it was crap and it would turn yellow, crack, and peel off. A year later you can't even tell it is on. My car is red and no one has ever seen it and said anything to me. I always have to point it out. I even took it in to get estimates for the trade, and I had to point it out to all the appraisers. When I got mine, the did not have a kit for the rocker panels, I bought extra material (about $2/foot) and cut my own. All the sections are still in perfect shape, however, there are a few spots I've seen that have taken rocks and scuffed the plastic (you can only see it when you are washing and have the right light), so I know it works. 2 spots I've found took a rock and cut the plastic. One was on the corner of the bumper and the other was just in front the driver's wheel well. I would say it saves lot of rock chips. The other advantage is it makes it a lot easier to clean bugs off the front. Installing does make your back sore, but I just bought a new Cadillac CTS and put in on there as soon as I got it. They are great and you can't beat it for $40.

Well I don't sell the 3M product but I am a believer of it even at the 6-$700 I paid for it. As you pointed out above, that crap from ebay got cut. Well my 3M has had some heavy hits in the over year & half I have had it on, and none of the impacts have penetrated the material. The thickness IS what you are paying for, besides the "professional installation", which on the sky can be complex, especially the loonnnggg and awkward piece for the front bumper. I still think you get what you pay for, give the material you have time, it will yellow out sooner rather than later.. But I guess for $40 bucks, you can peel it off and put some new stuff on.. Hey to each their own, I'm not going to knock what you do with your cars, but certainly will not support your position either on that cheap ebay junk, especially from what others have posted here about it...

To other members I say, the 3M product and the Venture shield products are quality materials. The 3M IMHO is slightly cheaper. Both can be installed by you, but get ready to spend some time and be frustrated, especially the front bumper. AND make sure you get the proper tools AND make sure you follow instructions precisely, for example, the paint must be in pure form, no wax, if I recall he used some type of "cleaner" not sure what it was, to make sure the paint was "pure" if you will. IF not properly installed, it could peel off.. My professional installer took slightly over 4 hours to do my hood, 1/3 of the way up, both side mirrors, front bumper, with a 8 mil thickness material, then he did all 3 headlights with a 14 Mil thick material. Other than the bruising I have seen from the many impacts from rocks (wife drove the Sky long distances for over a year thru a high way construction zone, also known down here as the Sawgrasse Expressway). My only regret is that I did not install protection in the area in front of the rear wheels. I thought at the time that my splash guards would do the trick. Unfortunately, they did not. I haven't taken any direct rock hits if you will, but what has happened is that it has been hit with what I would call "sand-blasting" effects. Hundreds of tiny hits from what I guess is sand and minute tiny rocks spun off the front tires and getting past the splash guard kind of sand blasting those areas, the lower you go on it the higher the concentration of "rough visible surface".. So at least new owners considering this way of protecting your Sky's, don't omit this area..

As a final observation, I'm glad to see new owners are digging up old threads and trying to avoid the pain some of us have gone thru, the lessons that have been learned and shared and shows and proves how valuable a forum like this can be on particular subjects, especially cars, we, the people, can sometimes be real brutal and incredibly honest, even on the cars we love and can honestly point out all its 'flaws and warts".. Good show.. Also the fact that we can disagree or agree on matters as important as our wheels.. Have a good day folks...read my sig below..

[smithb]

I just want to emphasize I don't care, and I do not want to and am not debating the subject. I am only replying so the people looking for info have actual factual information. The material 3M uses and everyone is exactly the same. It is urethane. The only differences between bras is the thickness of the material. The 3M bras are typicall 8 mil, but you can buy 6 mil. The 8 mil is tested to prevent damage up to 60 mph. I purchased the 6 mil, so with e=mv^2 I am guessing 6 mil is good to 33.75 mph assuming the durability of the material is linear with thickness. However I have not seen any tests for 6 mil (like I have for 8 mil). The advantage of thinner material is that it is less noticable. In business/economics there is a principle of "price percieved quality", where companies charge more because people think they get something better because they pay more, even though the item is way over priced. A good example is generic drugs, like Walmart brand ibuprofen is exactly the same thing as advil, but people pay twice as much for advil. It is your money and you can spend it however you want, but don't think the 3M urethane (or whoever's) is a special material only they sell. It is the same stuff. If you are worried about cuts, scrapes, scuffs, or whatever, you can buy 15 generic bras for the price of one $600 bra and replace it every 6 months for 7 years if you want. Again, mine has been on a year with no damage done to my car.

The other problem I forgot to mention on my last post was the possibility of the paint not fading as much under the bra (due to the UV protection), so if/when you do decide to take it off the paint under the bra may be darker then the rest of the car. But this is an issue no matter what you decide to do. Good luck no matter what you decide.

Late edit: I forget to add that I live in rural Oklahoma, so there are mostly dirt roads around. Whlie I personally do not drive on dirt roads a lot, they all feed into the main roads, so there are a lot of rocks and gravel on the paved roads as well that get kicked up at 70-80mph.

[MidniteBlues]

Please don't insult my intelligence. You are mis-informed if you think that ebay junk is the same as 3M's Or ventureshields material. Most of us did some major home work on this subject before we bought anything. And it really is not up to debate. See how many other forum members are using the stuff you are using... Hey, I don't care what you think either and as far as I am concern this debate is OVER... You want to use garbage, have at it, it is a free country. But don't go comparing that 40 dollar garbage with 3m or venture shields stuff.. I will also not debate you, it not a matter of debate, facts are facts, many others bought that junk you have from ebay and peeled it off.. its garbage..bottom line, you get what you pay for.. simple really.. Search the forum, many threads & posts with info here and on the solstice forum, but you have already made up your mind, that's cool I have no problems with it..You Have a nice day dude & good luck with your decision also....

[Leather]

I have the 3M material on the front of all 3 of my rides. It is the first thing I do when I buy a new vehicle. $ well spent. I also leave it to the experts to install as I have read it can be very hard to install correctly. mine cost $700 I think. 1/3 hood, part of front fenders, Mirrors, Rocker Panels

[duck833]

My ventureshield has been on about 1 1/2 years now, 8,500 miles.

Did the front bumber, headlight, mirrors, rockers and of course in front of rear wheels. Had it professionally installed, still looks perfect. My cost was around $500.

Have three very small rock chips so far, two on hood and one alongside headlight. I have Saturn match yellow paint and I have used very small artists brushes to touch them up. You have to look very closely to see them. Next clay bar time I might be able to smooth them out a little.

Other than that the car looks better than the day I picked it up.

[smithb]

Originally Posted by MidniteBlues

Please don't insult my intelligence. You are mis-informed if you think that ebay junk is the same as 3M's Or ventureshields material. Most of us did some major home work on this subject before we bought anything. And it really is not up to debate. See how many other forum members are using the stuff you are using... :

Well, since it has turned into childish name calling... I am not being sarcastic or angry when I write any of this, I am only stating facts. If anything I said is not factual, please let me know. If I am misinformed, then educate me and everyone with facts and not name calling. I am a chemical engineer, so don't spare the technical details. I did research too, so if I missed something, I really want to know. From what I found from the companies that sell them, they are all thermal set polyurethane. If not, what are they made of? Where does each company buy their urethane or other material from? What makes one supplier better than the other? I could not find information on the specific adhesive they use (although possibly urethane as well), so what different adhesives are the companies using? If people have a problem with peeling, then it is an installation problem, since I am very confident they use the same adhesives. Seriously, please let me know. And as an engineer I can say user testimonials are not facts. I'm sure everyone here is honest (a lot of testimonials are fabricated), but the only problem with them are user experience varies with the user.

[MidniteBlues]

Originally Posted by smithb

I have had a generic clear bra on my car for over a year now. I got it on ebay and think I spent around $40 for the whole thing shipped, and it probably took 3 hours or so to install one Saturday with my wife's help(however, the more you do it the faster you get). All the clear bras are the same no matter how much they cost. Some companies put their name on it and charge a lot more, but it is the same material. The only difference is the thickness. When I put it on and posted here, a bunch of people (mostly people selling $700 ones) said it was crap and it would turn yellow, crack, and peel off. A year later you can't even tell it is on. My car is red and no one has ever seen it and said anything to me. I always have to point it out. I even took it in to get estimates for the trade, and I had to point it out to all the appraisers. When I got mine, the did not have a kit for the rocker panels, I bought extra material (about $2/foot) and cut my own. All the sections are still in perfect shape, however, there are a few spots I've seen that have taken rocks and scuffed the plastic (you can only see it when you are washing and have the right light), so I know it works. 2 spots I've found took a rock and cut the plastic. One was on the corner of the bumper and the other was just in front the driver's wheel well. I would say it saves lot of rock chips. The other advantage is it makes it a lot easier to clean bugs off the front. Installing does make your back sore, but I just bought a new Cadillac CTS and put in on there as soon as I got it. They are great and you can't beat it for $40.

Even you would agree as a chemical engineer with this type of material, the thicker the better? Just searched ebay and saw that the majority of the stuff being sold in the 3M Scotch Guard material, and a couple other unnamed material at a cheaper price. As you know ebay you can just about buy anything much much cheaper than a brick & mortar store. The one usual bad thing about this, is that there usually you get no warranties or guarantee, many people can live with that. Others won't. I like a year, 2 warranties on stuff, or even up to 5 years in this case with the 3M product. I won't be surprised if you could actually purchase this stuff way way below market price.

Originally Posted by smithb

Well, since it has turned into childish name calling... I am not being sarcastic or angry when I write any of this, I am only stating facts. If anything I said is not factual, please let me know. If I am misinformed, then educate me and everyone with facts and not name calling. I am a chemical engineer, so don't spare the technical details. I did research too, so if I missed something, I really want to know. From what I found from the companies that sell them, they are all thermal set polyurethane. If not, what are they made of? Where does each company buy their urethane or other material from? What makes one supplier better than the other? I could not find information on the specific adhesive they use (although possibly urethane as well), so what different adhesives are the companies using? If people have a problem with peeling, then it is an installation problem, since I am very confident they use the same adhesives. Seriously, please let me know. And as an engineer I can say user testimonials are not facts. I'm sure everyone here is honest (a lot of testimonials are fabricated), but the only problem with them are user experience varies with the user.

That is true what is high lighted above. But the thickness would be key IMO. Also however, I don't know where I called you any names directly in any way in re-reading all my posts, I did not see anything childish nor any name calling from what I could see. Just an exchange of ideas and opinions. On known facts from I can see from you and I. Altho in general I will agree that manufacturers will always project their respective products in the best light possible, 3M's material and Venture shield for that matter are no different in trying to sell their stuff. Even you stated above that the material you used & I quote "2 spots I've found took a rock and cut the plastic", well with all due respect I took huge rock hits, marked the plastic mind ya, but it did not "penetrate or cut the material".

You know, I don't why we are arguing. Bottom line you and I think a like. It is a matter of semantics and the material used, and the price we paid for the stuff. We both want to protect our cars. You like a hands on approach & are a DIY guy, nothing wrong with that, lots of guys are that way, I just didn't want to deal with it. So I paid a pro to do it, and I get a 5 year warranty, on the material AND installation and I watched him struggle with it. He had a sore back when done, I had a smile with the excellent results & his quality work..

Since we both "basically agree" on the fact that we all just basically want to keep our cars looking nice & protect the paint any way we can, can we just sorta like call a truce in this way to silly argument..

At this point I am hoping that our "sparing" is over..Have a nice day..

PS: here's ebays latest stuff paint protection film, Parts Accessories, eBay Motors items on eBay.com Of course most attractive pricing for DIY guys.
and the 3M sites, take a look at the "Scotchgard Paint Protection Film Overview" More Information I particularly was impressed with that "key" test. And of course Nascar uses the stuff..(not that it helps them any LOL)
At this point I am done with this thread...

[onespoiledbrat]

I know I could do a factory search for an installer BUT is there anyone that has a recommendation for an installer and company that does the 3M in Southern Calif. I find the best form of advertisement is a satisfied customer. Thanks

[Clear Bra Installer]

As a professional installer, I can tell you that all paint protection films are not the same. Every manufacturer uses different techniques to produce the film. Some of the products which are sold on Ebay are flat out garbage. They are basically selling you cheap digital print lamination that is not designed to go on your car. I had a customer bring me their car that they installed the cheap ebay kit on and the adhesive separated from the film when we tried to remove it. It also caused some damage to his factory paint.

Also the finishes of the good companies like 3M and VentureShield are different. 3M finish is somewhat orange peel looking while VentureShield is more of a mirror finish.

Some products have different UV Coatings on them to prevent yellowing or cracking. Some do not.

If you are looking for a certified installer of VentureShield in your area, go to