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Budget Brake Upgrade

7K views 21 replies 7 participants last post by  wspohn 
#1 ·
After upgrading my tires earlier this year and going to an autocross event I realized the next part of my car that needed to be upgraded was the brakes. I did some research and found that both DDM and PAW both have an entry level brake kit for about $650, but that was more than I was wanting to spend. I started looking around for a cheaper alternative and decided on Centric Premium rotors, Stoptech Street performance pads (now just called sport pads), stainless steel brake lines from DDM Works, and some ATE Type 200 racing brake fluid. The full set of pads and rotors where $250.82 shipped from Rock Auto. The brake lines and ATE fluid was $143.18 shipped from DDM Works. Which bring the total of my budget brake kit to $394.

I installed all of the parts about 2,000 miles ago and followed the recommended bed in procedure on the box. I immediately noticed the pedal was firmer and input was much more linear. Before it seamed like you had to press the pedal down a ways to get any response. I went to an autocross event this past weekend to test out my new setup. Before I would experience brake pad fade and sometimes overheated fluid. I would mash the pedal hard and it would do nothing and go straight to the floor, then I would end up heading to fast into the corner and smash through the cones.

At the autocross this past weekend it was in the high 80's during the am session and in the low 90's during the pm session. The brakes performed excellent. No overheating of the pads or fluid and the pedal remained firm the entire time. I was able to place 2nd in my class out of 12 people. Before upgrading my brakes I would typically place half way in the pack of usually 10 to 15 people in my class. I highly recommend this setup to anybody that is looking for some cheap performance out of their street driven car.
 

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#5 ·
Sounds like a nice setup...
Thanks mstrjon32

KappaTarbo, what other cars were in your class? However, I need to do something about my Power Steering fluid. I need high temp fluid and DDM's relocation kit. Twice this weekend I had the power steering fluid overheat on me.
The fifth picture uploaded on the first post has a list of the cars and the times in my class. I autocross with a club that doesn't follow SCCA rules. Each class is setup by displacement. Class 1 is for under 2.3L. Class 2 is for over 2.2L, but under 4.0L. Class 3 is for over 3.9L. Forced induction bumps you up a class. The only other rule is tires have to be 140 tread wear or higher.

I am curious to see what you come up with for a power steering solution. After my first lap I could hear it howling. I assume we just need to add a cooler to the lines. I have been meaning to do some research on this and see what others have done, but I have been putting it off. Another idea I had though...has anybody got rid of the power steering rack and used a manual one? Or converted the power rack to manual?

Street to Autocross uses for brake package upgrade. This looks like a good application for normal street use...Being that this car does go beyond the speed limit on occasions (!) go fast stop fast is a no brainer.
Couldn't have said it better myself
 
#3 ·
KappaTarbo, what other cars were in your class? I run Hawk pads and this past weekend temps were in the 100s. No fade and no brake issues. The track had a number of hard braking points too. Eventually I'm going with a big brake kit but that's after I'm done with the engine stuff for now. The Hawk pads with the rest of the components stock work fine.

However, I need to do something about my Power Steering fluid. I need high temp fluid and DDM's relocation kit. Twice this weekend I had the power steering fluid overheat on me.
 
#4 ·
Street to Autocross uses for brake package upgrade. This looks like a good application for normal street use. It has it's advantages for those owners who do autocross their Kappa's. $$$ is always a question here. How much and how much money is it a question of when is too much, for the $$$ ? From the stock set to this budget upgrade, to a full on race set up, a good, no scratch that a great brake set up, you can't go wrong with stopping power.

For normal stop and go driving, the stock set up is ok, to a point. Brakes do wear, depending on the driver's usage. This budget upgrade seems like a great alternative to the stock set up for street and track day usage. If your Kappa is used for mostly strip usage then a full on big brake upgrade is the ticket. It does have it's benefit when the car is in street normal driving mode, but the cost is always the big ? mark IMO.

As for mine it goes something like this. Stock set up, normal driving street use only. Pad wear and lining wear and tear constantly checked by the dealer at regular visits. Could they be better? Sure they could and the first thing would be a pad upgrade. Stoptech Street or Hawk pads are an improvement over a replacement of new OEM pads. Cost difference is up to the owner. Stopping power or lack there of is a whole new animal, when your driving somewhat (!) aggressively. Do I want to stop "now" or later? How close will the car and I be, to that bumper in front of me, or that guard rail or cement truck when I do hit the pedal. Wanna spend time in the emergency room or your Kappa in the body shop to found out this theory? Not likely but something also caught my ear on this, is the upgrade to a better fluid. Overheat of the fluid is a big question in some cases. Now some do and some don't auto cross their rides. During normal everyday driving you could possibly overheat it, but that would be extreme in most cases, not all but some. If you do auto cross a lot like Robo and others here do, then the cost and the upgrade is a given. Power steering over heat is another one of the what ifs? Not likely in normal day to day, but then again stranger things have happened. Braided brakes lines is another upgrade that benefits the system over the rubber hose set up from the factory. When is the last time you "looked" at your brake lines? Once a month, once a week or once a day? Up to you the owner when and how often.

This is a good thread for owners who want something a little better than the stock original. Cost is within reason, depending on your current budget constraints or lack there of. Cost is no object, well be all means let's go with the best that money can buy. Brakes... who needs brakes they just slow you down, they are for quitters. So says the fool from the emergency room. IF your car does not stop good enough for you, then make the change, other wise you could be that guy, commenting from the emergency room, know what I mean? Ask your airbags and remember to update your will while your at it.

New pads are in my future I think. Before I get to the 50k mark, pretty sure new OEM stock replacements are going on, just for the piece of mind. Mine have been used by me, and the previous owner. When you replace them is all up to you the owner, whether you own a Kappa or not. Being that this car does go beyond the speed limit on occasions (!) go fast stop fast is a no brainer.

LAC
 
#6 ·
Street to Autocross uses for brake package...

LAC
I am responding to the whole quote but don't need to re-quote the whole thing. Sometimes driving on the street can be more demanding on your brake system than Autocrossing. What overheats the brakes is constant usage. With Autocross, we go balls to the wall for 30-60 seconds jamming on the brakes hard. We do this three or four times consecutively with only a few moments in between runs but then we come in and let the brakes cool for hours before we go out and do it again.

With driving on the street, normal daily driving isn't a concern but if you like to take your Kappa out on a spirited run on twisty roads, you can overheat your brakes just as bad as we do Autocrossing. The difference is that there may not be a break every 30-60 seconds or the ability to let your brakes cool off for a couple hours after 10 minutes of hard driving. Worse, on the Autocross course if you loose your brakes you kill a couple cones...on a twisty mountain road if this happens you drive up the side of a mountain (not that I speak from experience here...eh hem) or off the side of a mountain (which is worse, of course).

I'd say if you want to really push your car in corners...no matter where you do it...upgrade your pads at the very least. Pads, fluid and lines would probably be ideal for most people who like spirited mountain drives.

The fifth picture uploaded on the first post has a list of the cars and the times in my class. I autocross with a club that doesn't follow SCCA rules. Each class is setup by displacement. Class 1 is for under 2.3L. Class 2 is for over 2.2L, but under 4.0L. Class 3 is for over 3.9L. Forced induction bumps you up a class. The only other rule is tires have to be 140 tread wear or higher.
I didn't see that picture. That's a pretty even class! I think I would have done decent in that class but probably not as good as you. I know I'm missing something from my line this past weekend. Should have been in the 48s at least and couldn't break 50.X. Grrrr...

So as a Turbo 2.4 I'd be in Class 3? You guys have a pretty low tire threshold though. My group still sticks to the SCCA based 200 treadwear rule.

I am curious to see what you come up with for a power steering solution. After my first lap I could hear it howling. I assume we just need to add a cooler to the lines. I have been meaning to do some research on this and see what others have done, but I have been putting it off. Another idea I had though...has anybody got rid of the power steering rack and used a manual one? Or converted the power rack to manual?
I'm going to go with DDM's power steering res. relocation kit. It moves the reservoir for the power steering pump back over the battery next to the fuse box and further way from the turbo. It's the heat of the turbo that does it in. I never had an issue with it when I was NA but once I went turbo it's done it three times now. I may make some sort of heat sink for the lines too if I think it will help.
 
#9 ·
Here is one for you, how do you know when or if your power steering has over heated? What tells you the driver your PS is not up to snuff? During the thrashing you do on the auto cross, what were the signs your temps were to high? Gauge or wheel feedback from the course? Just wondering what might be a good thing to know if any clues comes up for all of us out here.


Ran my SKY all over town today. Just a real nice day for it around here. 77 degrees clear BLUE skies. Had a couple of real interesting comments about it. " I like it more than a Miata" well thanks kid." Looks corvetteish!" Hun oh well. "Sort of like a Lambo". Really that's a new one to me. Couple of kids at the ice cream store. Few others said stuff, Like the color, and what is it? Me... laughing away told them. A Saturn they said, no way. Yup eat your heart out.

LAC
 
#10 ·
Here is one for you, how do you know when or if your power steering has over heated? What tells you the driver your PS is not up to snuff? During the thrashing you do on the auto cross, what were the signs your temps were to high? Gauge or wheel feedback from the course? Just wondering what might be a good thing to know if any clues comes up for all of us out here.
LAC
You get a whine when you turn the wheel and the steering feels gritty when turned. Basically the same symptoms as when you are low on power steering fluid.
 
#13 ·
So, how difficult is it to replace the OEM brakes on the Sky? I've never done any maintenance like this, but pretty good at following directions. Do those of you with the experience suggest that I get it done at a shop or could a Novice handle it?
 
#14 · (Edited)
If you're talking simple brake maintenance, I HIGHLY suggest learning to do it yourself. After you've done it, you'll wonder why you didn't do it earlier. Brakes are the kind of thing you move on to after you have mastered oil changes, adding air to the tires, and putting gas in the car. Not meaning to sound like a smart azz but it really is that simple. Brakes are a very simple novice task.

Tools you should use/have:
  • Metric Socket Set
  • Torx bit set
  • Allen head socket set
  • Floor Jack
  • Jack stands
  • Wheel chocks
  • Brake Caliper Piston tool
  • Gloves
  • Cold beverage of your choice
  • Ear muffs for the kids for those moments when you bust your knuckles against something hard, metal and generally nasty...

Some simple instructions:


  • Set parking brake and block front wheels. Loosen all lug nuts (20...5 per wheel) but only by a couple turns.

  • Jack up car using proper jacking points (if you don't know what they are, do a search...plenty of info on this) and place car on four jack stands.

  • Remove loosened lug nuts. Remove wheels/tires.

  • Disengage parking brake.

  • Remove calipers from caliper brackets. Front calipers use hex bolts (14mm or 15mm...I want to say 15mm) rears use Allen head screws (6mm I believe...not sure here). Rear Allen head bolts have plastic covers over them that just pop off. You can pry these off with a screwdriver if necessary. Then the bolts are sunken inside rubber boots. It is usually easiest to back out the lower bolt almost all the way first then remove the upper bolt. The rear caliper will also require you removing a spring retainer. This is best done with needle nose pliers. They just slide out toward the outside of the caliper as you release their pressure against the caliper. (this should make more sense once you see them.)

  • Support calipers with bailing wire/box/coat hanger/etc. You do not want the calipers hanging from the brake lines.

  • Remove old pads from caliper brackets. Note orientation and placement of pads for new pad installation. Note that when removing pads or caliper brackets that the pad guides/retainers (the thin metal pieces the pads ride on in the caliper bracket both on top and bottom) may fall out. This isn't a problem but be sure to note their orientation before removing pads so that the new parts can be installed properly on reassembly.

  • Remove caliper brackets from hub by removing two hex head bolts. I believe these are 18mm both front and rear. Note orientation for re-installation.

  • Once caliper bracket is removed, the rotor must be removed from the car. The rotors are held in with a Torx head screw. It is important that you use the correct Torx bit as these screws can be easily stripped if you do not. Remove the single Torx screw that holds in each rotor. (You know, I THINK we use a Torx bit...it's either that or an Allen head...I have two cars I do brakes on and each one uses something different so I can never remember which has which...but I'm fairly sure our use Torx...The important part...use the right fitting tool...) These are NOT necessary for reinstallation unless you so wish to do so (they are used during assembly to reduce build time...the wheels and lug nuts keep the rotor centered on the hub when installed). With the screw off, the rotor should just slide off the hub. Make note of which rotors came off which side of the car.

  • At this point, you either need to resurface the rotor face or replace the rotor. Take the rotors to a local automotive shop (some parts stores will do this) that can turn the rotors. They will measure the rotor and make sure there is enough material left on the rotor to turn it. If there is not enough material, you will need a new rotor. Depending on the mileage of your car, we may be able to figure out the likelihood of you needing new rotors.

  • With the rotors turned (or with new rotors) reinstall the rotors to the hubs making sure the proper rotor is on each side (and axle) of the car.

  • Reinstall caliper brackets and pad guides/retainers being sure they are properly oriented on the caliper brackets. Torque to spec.

  • Install new pads into the caliper bracket. Be sure they are pressed completely and evenly against the rotor. NOTE: This may sound really stupid but be sure to put the pads on with the pad material touching the rotor surface. There are many instances of people putting the pads on backwards (yes, they will fit perfectly fine backwards) and have the metal backing plates touching the rotor instead of the pad material. This will destroy your rotors very quickly and possibly severely damage your brakes if driven too long like this.

  • Remove cap from brake fluid reservoir.

  • For the front calipers, press in the caliper piston completely using a caliper compression tool. These are available from most auto parts stores (some will rent them) or Harbor Freight for about $40-$60. Personally, I'd buy the kit from Harbor Freight as I have found it to work great with our cars and it's reasonably priced.

  • For the rear calipers, you will need to turn in the rear caliper's piston. The caliper compression tool will have a plate with 2 pins on it that will match up to the 2 recesses in the face of the rear piston. Find the plate in the caliper compression tool kit that best fits your piston. This will turn the rear piston properly. You may also use needle nose pliers for this but...just save the hassle and get the right tool.

  • After the piston has been turned or pressed in as far as it will go, place the caliper over the pads and caliper bracket. If the caliper doesn't want to go over the pads, check to make sure the pads are pressed up against the surface of the rotor as far as they will go and make even contact with the rotor across the pad face. Also check that the rotor is fully turned or pressed into the caliper.

  • Place some brake specific anti-squeal grease on the pins (bolts) that hold the caliper to the caliper bracket. This grease only needs to be put on the smooth section of the pin shaft.

  • Reinstall and torque these pins (bolts) to spec.

  • Inspect brake fluid to ensure it is at the fill line. Add some fluid if necessary. Replace cap.

  • Set parking brake.

  • Reinstall wheel/tires. Hand install lug nuts...do NOT use an impact gun. Do not let a wheel or brake shop use an impact gun...ever. This can lead to the lugs becoming damaged and snapping off when you try to take them off again. (Ask me how I know...LOL) Snug lug nuts in star pattern.

  • Lower car off jack stands using appropriate lifting points.

  • Torque lug nuts to 100 ft/lbs.

  • Remove wheel chocks.

  • Crack open a cold whatever and enjoy, you're done.

It may sound like a lot but really it's pretty simple. Once you do it, it seems even easier.
 
#16 ·
Nope...because the oil is scared of the dark place that is the drip pan and does everything in its power to run away from it and pour onto the garage floor. LOL So THAT, is totally out of your power. LOL

Glad to help though. There was a time I was in your shoes and someone helped me. I'm just playing it forward.
 
#20 ·
Naw, early Ducatis and high output rotary valve Kawasakis.

Always found the Harleys to be a bit loud and ponderous - come to think of it, just like most American muscle cars.

They can make good touring bikes, though.

On British I liked Triumph and Norton, and even lusted after a late 1960s Spanish bike, a Bultaco Metrala.

My biking was cut short, though - my later to be wife made me a deal - if I gave up riding bikes on the street, she wouldn't raise any objection to me racing sports cars. Which I proceeded to do for decades. In retrospect, bikes would have been a lot cheaper......
 
#21 ·
LOL sounds like a fair trade to me wspohn. LOL

I like Harleys BECAUSE they are ponderous...even the Sportsters. Put me on something that actually had a good power to weight ratio and I'd have killed myself long ago. Know your limitations. LOL

Hell, who am I kidding, the Harley's just about got me killed. LOL
 
#22 ·
Yeah - I knew more than a few people that climbed off a Honda Dream onto a Kawasaki 500 and ended up in hospital or worse.

Today's bikes are far worse in terms of power but at least the handling and brakes are usually up to snuff.

OTOH, I also knew someone whose wife made him give up his early 50s bike - a Vincent Black Shadow. Think he got about $700 for it back in the 70s. He still hauls out the auction results and waves them at his wife when one goes for around $100K (and up).
 
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