Sky Redline vs Solstice vs Mazda

Caramel_guy · 06-01-2007, 02:55 AM

..."Everything goes great with Caramel"

.....Hearing a few rumors...and using my own VISUAL OBSERVATIONS.....It appears that the SKY/REDLINE is seriously outselling the SOLSTICE....and that the Solstice my NOT...make it to a 3rd model year...! also GM released 2007 2nd quarter sales figures and posted that the SKY (and a few other models such as the Aura)....are performing above sales forcast...(The SOLSTICE was NOT amoungst that group....

ALSO the REDLINE/SKY is outperforming the MAZDA MX5 (MIATA) as well.....and is on the way the supplanting the MAZDA as the best selling sports car...in NORTH AMERICA...

(NOTE - in 2006 the SOLSTICE outsold the MAZDA also...but has since lost ground back to MAZDA)

Talz · 06-01-2007, 04:07 AM

Probably because the dealers are trying to mark them all up 5k with 5k more in add ons. Seriously I've never seen a dealer network so bent on destroying their own brand. I know there are exceptions but you don't even have to look hard to find stories of how they've abused customers wanting the GTO and then the Solstice. GM's Pontiac revival attempts have been done on the cheap overall. Well IIRC they spent a ton on the G6, panoramic roof and hardtop vert, which are cool overall but not what it'd take to turn Pontiac into an exciting brand for any red blooded American man.

Pontiac needs to take a lesson from Dodge or something, their car lineup is much closer to what it'd take to turn Pontiac back into excitement. It wouldn't be exactly right but much closer than the confused brand they have now.

marlboromike · 06-01-2007, 07:06 AM

there goes the 3rd shift at Wilmington...and your observations r definitely wrong...Solstice started as a 2006 and they definitely r starting the 2008....3 years....

Caramel_guy · 06-01-2007, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marlboromike

there goes the 3rd shift at Wilmington...and your observations r definitely wrong...Solstice started as a 2006 and they definitely r starting the 2008....3 years....

...."Everything goes great with Caramel"

....Which is what I see...but in keeping with the "spirit" of that rumor......the SOLSTICE....does not have much longer to live....one maybe 2 more yrs......mostly due to those ridiculous mark-ups.........It will be very interesting..to see the FINAL 2007 SALES REPORTS........As of the 2nd quarter..GM DID NOT include the SOLSTICE in it's reporting on products that have met OR exceeded it's sales goals!

mbeardsley · 06-01-2007, 10:00 AM

Well, it may be that the Sky have met its sales goals better than the Solstice, but that doesn't mean it has outsold it.

They could have expected to sell 5,000 Skys and sell 10,000 Sols. And actually sell 6,000 Skys and 8,000 Sols.

It's MUCH more common to see Sols around here than Skys (but maybe that's just a local phenomenon).

Rick Tinley Park · 06-01-2007, 10:18 AM

Remember two things -
#1 --- 2 times as many Solstices are made as there are SKYs.
#2 --- This is Solstices second year - so the demand is down.
Now it’s true that sales are usually a percentage - so the amount of cars is not important (say 90% of cars MFG are the sales goals - so 9000 Sky but 18,000 Solstice). However, someone made an assumption that Solstices would outsell SKYs (most likely since there are SO many more Pontiac dealers as compared to Saturn) so that could be a problem in teh long run. It is teh long run that it is all about though.
I would imagine that the second year of SKY will see slower sales as well (will it reach sales goals??? I donno). In fact both models will decline to about 5 years. Then the truth will be told - Return buyers! Will they join new buyers and be replacing the 2006-7-8 Sky/Solstices? That is when you find out how successful your car is.

darrylba · 06-01-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Tinley Park

Remember two things -
#1 --- 2 times as many Solstices are made as there are SKYs.
#2 --- This is Solstices second year - so the demand is down.
Now it’s true that sales are usually a percentage - so the amount of cars is not important (say 90% of cars MFG are the sales goals - so 9000 Sky but 18,000 Solstice). However, someone made an assumption that Solstices would outsell SKYs (most likely since there are SO many more Pontiac dealers as compared to Saturn) so that could be a problem in teh long run. It is teh long run that it is all about though.
I would imagine that the second year of SKY will see slower sales as well (will it reach sales goals??? I donno). In fact both models will decline to about 5 years. Then the truth will be told - Return buyers! Will they join new buyers and be replacing the 2006-7-8 Sky/Solstices? That is when you find out how successful your car is.

Right, No model can go on forever! Just know you have a one of kind vehicle. Get one now while u can!

dengel · 06-02-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caramel_guy

...."Everything goes great with Caramel"

....Which is what I see...but in keeping with the "spirit" of that rumor......the SOLSTICE....does not have much longer to live....one maybe 2 more yrs......mostly due to those ridiculous mark-ups.........It will be very interesting..to see the FINAL 2007 SALES REPORTS........As of the 2nd quarter..GM DID NOT include the SOLSTICE in it's reporting on products that have met OR exceeded it's sales goals!

Also remember that convertible sales are generally governed by seasonal cycles. Dealers will sell a lot more convertibles in the summer months than in the colder weather months. So I wouldn't necessarily predict the annual sales number based on the first 2 quarters (October to March versus April to September).

Also, the Solstice was released a year earlier than the Sky - so comparing current sales for both models is kinda an apples to oranges debate. When the Solstice was at the same point in production that the Sky is at now, almost all Solstice sales were customer orders, not dealer stock (which means cars were selling as fast as the plant could make them). This is what is going on with the Sky now. Lets wait until all of the Sky pre-orders are filled, and then compare howwell the dealers move their floor stock of Sky's and Solstices. That will be the true test.

Valistener · 06-02-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talz

Probably because the dealers are trying to mark them all up 5k with 5k more in add ons. Seriously I've never seen a dealer network so bent on destroying their own brand. I know there are exceptions but you don't even have to look hard to find stories of how they've abused customers wanting the GTO and then the Solstice. GM's Pontiac revival attempts have been done on the cheap overall. Well IIRC they spent a ton on the G6, panoramic roof and hardtop vert, which are cool overall but not what it'd take to turn Pontiac into an exciting brand for any red blooded American man.

Pontiac needs to take a lesson from Dodge or something, their car lineup is much closer to what it'd take to turn Pontiac back into excitement. It wouldn't be exactly right but much closer than the confused brand they have now.

Pontiac dealers did the same thing to the GTO and it seriously hurt its reputation and credibility.
They still haven't learned. Of course my Saturn dealer has a $3000 market adjustment price increase on their redlines, so some Saturns aren't any different.

ThunderSky · 06-02-2007, 11:34 PM

I was feeling a bit frustrated on Thursday as I continue waiting for my RedLine, so I went for a spin by the dealer just to have a look.
I had to go by the Pontiac dealer to get there, and they just happened to have about 10 Sols lined up on the lot, including 3 GXP's.
Then I get to the Saturn dealer... and not a single SKY to be seen.
So, if they are building relatively equal amounts of both, I'd have to say the Sky is really outselling the Sol in a big way.
I was very tempted to go talk to someone about grabbing a GXP, but after taking another look at them, I just can't bring myself to make that move.

Regardless of the rediculous wait, the Sky is still the "beautiful cousin" and I'll sit tight till mine shows up.

Tonic · 06-03-2007, 12:42 AM

Hey ThunderSky

would you be interesed about getting a silver REDLINe?

I think i found one!

Caramel_guy · 06-03-2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderSky

I was feeling a bit frustrated on Thursday as I continue waiting for my RedLine, so I went for a spin by the dealer just to have a look.
I had to go by the Pontiac dealer to get there, and they just happened to have about 10 Sols lined up on the lot, including 3 GXP's.
Then I get to the Saturn dealer... and not a single SKY to be seen.
So, if they are building relatively equal amounts of both, I'd have to say the Sky is really outselling the Sol in a big way.
I was very tempted to go talk to someone about grabbing a GXP, but after taking another look at them, I just can't bring myself to make that move.

Regardless of the rediculous wait, the Sky is still the "beautiful cousin" and I'll sit tight till mine shows up.

EVERYTHING GOES GREAT WITH CARAMEL

Your observation was spot on....even according to GM...the SOLSTICE is in big trouble....sales are way way down....(Those dealer mark-ups arent helping either).......by compairison SKY / REDLINES sales are THRU THE ROOF...dealers CANT KEEP REDLINES on their lots PERIOD!.....the current trend my mean the DEATH of the SOLSTICE...within 2 years..

jazfreek · 06-04-2007, 12:04 AM

The dealer where I got my Sky RL also owns two Pontiac dealerships. My salesman told me that the Sols are not selling. He said that they usually have 10 GXPs in stock just sitting on the lot. He went on to say that the Solstice might get a face lift this year and maybe it might help with sells.

cerberus · 06-04-2007, 12:29 AM

Roadster sales historically run in short hot bursts followed by a tapering off. While local regional differences may vary widely, at a national level GM's sales deliveries published data do not show a sharp tipping point yet. There is also typically a lag between the time a premium can be achieved and the point where it is removed from sales asking prices. Individual dealers may find themselves with inventory on hand as they try to wait out and guess cyclic buying trends vs market resistance to markups.

National Sales Deliveries reported by GM

Sky May 07 : 1158 May 06 : 1041
Sol May 07 : 1971 May 06 : 1804

dengel · 06-04-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caramel_guy

even according to GM...the SOLSTICE is in big trouble....sales are way way down.....the current trend my mean the DEATH of the SOLSTICE...within 2 years..

Can you provide details on your source inside GM that is providing you this information? Any data or numbers to substantiate your claims?

I have heard nothing official or unofficial coming out of GM that they are concerned about Solstice sales, or are anywhere near considering stopping production of it.

Without any real data to back up your claims, it looks to me like you're just making up a bunch of

to stir up arguments.

Tonic · 06-04-2007, 10:13 AM

Well here in Canada, Solstice's sale are down a lot i think! They have a bunch in each dealership even the GXP. If you take a look on Gm's Canada website the interest rate is lower on a Solstice than a Sky......

But that doesnt mean they gonna stop making them! But yeah i can get my hand on a GXP a lot easier than on a Sky REdline!

TOY4TWO · 06-04-2007, 05:18 PM

If you want a Solstice OR a Sky you might not want to wait 2 years, let alone if those cars will be around in 2 years, the whole company may be gone:

http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/07...1_id.html?.v=1

Caramel_guy · 06-04-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOY4TWO

If you want a Solstice OR a Sky you might not want to wait 2 years, let alone if those cars will be around in 2 years, the whole company may be gone:

http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/07...1_id.html?.v=1

..."Everything goes great with Caramel"

...# 3 on the fortune 500 list.....increasing GLOBAL MARKET SHARE.....brand new (Less than 2 yrs old) product line ...that have shown an increase sales by 20% ..............all add up to a GM corporation that WILL be here in 2yrs.....put another way....would you be willing to wager your annual pay check...on GM being here in two years ?? ...cuz I'd be more than happy to take your pay check......regardless of how "small" it is...

ThunderSky · 06-04-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonic

Hey ThunderSky

would you be interesed about getting a silver REDLINe?

I think i found one!

I would be interested, depending on the options.
I'm so close now that I'm not really willing to settle.
Only the Graphite or Silver are really of interest to me.

PM me with the options or location if you find one.

Thanx

KappaMan · 06-05-2007, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caramel_guy

06-01-2007, 02:55 AM	#1 (permalink)
Caramel_guy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Closter NJ Posts: 387 My Photos: (0)	Sky Redline vs Solstice vs Mazda ..."Everything goes great with Caramel" .....Hearing a few rumors...and using my own VISUAL OBSERVATIONS.....It appears that the SKY/REDLINE is seriously outselling the SOLSTICE....and that the Solstice my NOT...make it to a 3rd model year...! also GM released 2007 2nd quarter sales figures and posted that the SKY (and a few other models such as the Aura)....are performing above sales forcast...(The SOLSTICE was NOT amoungst that group.... ALSO the REDLINE/SKY is outperforming the MAZDA MX5 (MIATA) as well.....and is on the way the supplanting the MAZDA as the best selling sports car...in NORTH AMERICA... (NOTE - in 2006 the SOLSTICE outsold the MAZDA also...but has since lost ground back to MAZDA)

06-01-2007, 10:18 AM	#6 (permalink)
Rick Tinley Park Moderator Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SW Suburbs of Chicago Posts: 4,819 My Photos: (11)	Remember two things - #1 --- 2 times as many Solstices are made as there are SKYs. #2 --- This is Solstices second year - so the demand is down. Now it’s true that sales are usually a percentage - so the amount of cars is not important (say 90% of cars MFG are the sales goals - so 9000 Sky but 18,000 Solstice). However, someone made an assumption that Solstices would outsell SKYs (most likely since there are SO many more Pontiac dealers as compared to Saturn) so that could be a problem in teh long run. It is teh long run that it is all about though. I would imagine that the second year of SKY will see slower sales as well (will it reach sales goals??? I donno). In fact both models will decline to about 5 years. Then the truth will be told - Return buyers! Will they join new buyers and be replacing the 2006-7-8 Sky/Solstices? That is when you find out how successful your car is. __________________ Find out about my radio show http://www.anj.westpm.net Founder: www.chicagolandroadsters.com Rick Tinley Park Delivered June 15, 2006 VIN - 3099 Sunburst Yellow Name - Sunni1 IL License # - YLO SKY 1

06-02-2007, 11:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
ThunderSky Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 116 My Photos: (0)	I was feeling a bit frustrated on Thursday as I continue waiting for my RedLine, so I went for a spin by the dealer just to have a look. I had to go by the Pontiac dealer to get there, and they just happened to have about 10 Sols lined up on the lot, including 3 GXP's. Then I get to the Saturn dealer... and not a single SKY to be seen. So, if they are building relatively equal amounts of both, I'd have to say the Sky is really outselling the Sol in a big way. I was very tempted to go talk to someone about grabbing a GXP, but after taking another look at them, I just can't bring myself to make that move. Regardless of the rediculous wait, the Sky is still the "beautiful cousin" and I'll sit tight till mine shows up. __________________ ThunderSky Graphite RedLine, Red / Black Leather, Manual Tranny, Windrestrictor, Monsoon with XM , Spoiler, Drilled/Slotted Rotors, Painted calipers, Magnaflow 3" Quad Tip Exhaust, CAI Ordered 9/12/06 In My Garage 6/13/07

06-03-2007, 12:42 AM	#11 (permalink)
Tonic First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 241 My Photos: (1)	Hey ThunderSky would you be interesed about getting a silver REDLINe? I think i found one! __________________ Had to let 2 RED going away Sky REDLINE 2008 Black on red fully load 5 speeds Built July 16th Ship july 19th At dealership August 2nd Home August 9th

06-04-2007, 12:04 AM	#13 (permalink)
jazfreek Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Laurel, Maryland Posts: 59 My Photos: (0)	The dealer where I got my Sky RL also owns two Pontiac dealerships. My salesman told me that the Sols are not selling. He said that they usually have 10 GXPs in stock just sitting on the lot. He went on to say that the Solstice might get a face lift this year and maybe it might help with sells. __________________ DEPOSIT: 11/24/06 HOME: 2/7/07 SILVER GRAPHITE RED LINE MKS 6000K HID SYSTEM MAGNAFLOW 3" CAT-BACK EXHAUST KAPPASHPERE CAI KAPPASHPERE LIL' CHROMIES KAPPASHPERE CHROME DOMES KAPPASHPERE CUSTOM ALL WEATHER FLOOR MATS BLACKCAT CUSTOM GAUGES

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06-01-2007, 04:07 AM	#2 (permalink)
Talz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 187 My Photos: (0)	Probably because the dealers are trying to mark them all up 5k with 5k more in add ons. Seriously I've never seen a dealer network so bent on destroying their own brand. I know there are exceptions but you don't even have to look hard to find stories of how they've abused customers wanting the GTO and then the Solstice. GM's Pontiac revival attempts have been done on the cheap overall. Well IIRC they spent a ton on the G6, panoramic roof and hardtop vert, which are cool overall but not what it'd take to turn Pontiac into an exciting brand for any red blooded American man. Pontiac needs to take a lesson from Dodge or something, their car lineup is much closer to what it'd take to turn Pontiac back into excitement. It wouldn't be exactly right but much closer than the confused brand they have now.

06-01-2007, 07:06 AM	#3 (permalink)
marlboromike First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Marlboro, NJ Posts: 7,073 My Photos: (6)	there goes the 3rd shift at Wilmington...and your observations r definitely wrong...Solstice started as a 2006 and they definitely r starting the 2008....3 years....

06-01-2007, 10:00 AM	#5 (permalink)
mbeardsley Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Allen, Texas (just north of Dallas) Posts: 801 My Photos: (6)	Well, it may be that the Sky have met its sales goals better than the Solstice, but that doesn't mean it has outsold it. They could have expected to sell 5,000 Skys and sell 10,000 Sols. And actually sell 6,000 Skys and 8,000 Sols. It's MUCH more common to see Sols around here than Skys (but maybe that's just a local phenomenon).

06-04-2007, 12:29 AM	#14 (permalink)
cerberus Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,381 My Photos: (19)	Roadster sales historically run in short hot bursts followed by a tapering off. While local regional differences may vary widely, at a national level GM's sales deliveries published data do not show a sharp tipping point yet. There is also typically a lag between the time a premium can be achieved and the point where it is removed from sales asking prices. Individual dealers may find themselves with inventory on hand as they try to wait out and guess cyclic buying trends vs market resistance to markups. National Sales Deliveries reported by GM Sky May 07 : 1158 May 06 : 1041 Sol May 07 : 1971 May 06 : 1804 Last edited by cerberus : 06-04-2007 at 10:15 AM.

06-04-2007, 10:13 AM	#16 (permalink)
Tonic First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 241 My Photos: (1)	Well here in Canada, Solstice's sale are down a lot i think! They have a bunch in each dealership even the GXP. If you take a look on Gm's Canada website the interest rate is lower on a Solstice than a Sky...... But that doesnt mean they gonna stop making them! But yeah i can get my hand on a GXP a lot easier than on a Sky REdline! __________________ Had to let 2 RED going away Sky REDLINE 2008 Black on red fully load 5 speeds Built July 16th Ship july 19th At dealership August 2nd Home August 9th

06-04-2007, 05:18 PM	#17 (permalink)
TOY4TWO First 2000 Sr. Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 458 My Photos: (0)	If you want a Solstice OR a Sky you might not want to wait 2 years, let alone if those cars will be around in 2 years, the whole company may be gone: http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/07...1_id.html?.v=1 __________________ Send me a Private Message to rate/view your Saturn Dealer on the USA Map.