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Car wont start after many upgrades

3K views 25 replies 7 participants last post by  Robotech 
#1 ·
Hey Guys,

I've had my 2008 Sky Redline up on stands in my garage doing upgrades since October. I finally finished everything tonight and was ready for a preliminary test start.

Here is everything I Installed:

RPM Motorsports Cold Air Intake
RPM Motorsports Upgraded Larger Wheel Turbo
RPM Motorsports Intercooler
RPM Motorsports Cat Delete to Straight Down Pipe
DDM Works Oil Catch Can
DDM Works Front Venom Brace
DDM Works Upgraded Backbone
DDM Works Rear Suspension Brace

Currently I have the exhaust off post downpipe and only the upper O2 sensor attached

The car sputters for a few seconds then dies

The car shows a P0137 (O2 Circuit Low Voltage, Bank 1, Sensor 2)

With so many changes lately do you guys have any ideas?

Thanks
 
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#2 ·
The experts are on their way; however from your write-up it sounds to me like you forgot to mention the battery has been idle for some three months! My guess is your battery is at fault. The forum has always said a bad battery will play all kinds of tricks with these cars. I would be looking at the battery for sure.
 
#3 ·
Update:

I installed my muffler and "After CAT" O2 sensor WITH Extender, and the car starts good but then sputters after a second. Not as bad as before, actually stays running now but is a very heavy sputter, not drivable.

I disconnected the battery and am charging that, so we will see if that does anything.
 
#4 ·
What did you do for a tune? While there isn't much there that should necessitate one, the big wheel might throw things off.

Still, the car should start and run. My best guess is a vac leak somewhere since you messed with a lot of items that could create one. Do you have a scanner? If so, seeing what O2 readings you're getting as well as what your MAP and MAF readings look like may help figure out if there is a vac leak of some sort.

Also, look how you have the catch can routed. We saw something like this on @skersfan's car and routing the lines back to stock off his catch can seemed to solve some of that issue.
 
#5 ·
Well removing and recharging the battery seemed to help a little. My guess is the car needed to find a new idle. There seems to be a knocking sound from the engine and the new turbo is smoking a lot. I think there is just some sort of chemical that needs to burn off the turbo is all, don't see any leaks. I'll Email Martin at RPM and see what he thinks. I'm running his standard tune, but with the changes a tune hopefully is all I'll need to get things in line.
 
#6 ·
I will tell you that smoke off the turbo is totally normal. I have RPM's big wheel turbo and when I first got it the same thing happened. Like you I figured it was something put on the turbo during the rebuild/rework burning off and confirmed with Martin that this was the case. It took probably 200-300 miles before it stopped completely but it gradually got less and less the more I drove it.

The knocking I'd be a bit concerned with. You need to see where that's coming from.

By changing so many things with the air flow of the engine (Intake, turbo, charge pipes, intercooler, downpipe, and exhaust) all at once you probably affected the amount of air that flows in and out of the engine. Our ECMs "learn" airflow patterns and the fueling required to achieve the proper air/fuel ratio over time. It is possible that what it had learned before was so far out from what the conditions were now that it caused those issues but I would still keep an eye on it because it shouldn't be so far out of whack to cause the engine not to run.

Drive it a bit and see how it is after a little while. Also, and I cannot stress this enough, after a couple heat cycles on the turbo (cold start, drive for about 40 miles, cool down completely is one cycle) you will want to check the nuts that hold the turbo to the exhaust manifold. They WILL loosen up some after the initial installation and will need to be re-torqued to spec after those couple cycles. Once that's done though, you should be golden. No one mentioned this little factoid to me...a few weeks after install I had an issue with the car running funky and this was the issue. Didn't get it resolved until I pulled the turbo to put the new one on and found part of the gasket burned through.
 
#7 ·
Thanks as always Robotech!!! I don't want to let the car run because the knocking sound is pretty bad. Good to know about the turbo smoke. Makes me feel better about that part at least. I looked through all my vacuum lines and everything looks just like stock. I'll update the thread after I hear from Martin.
 
#8 ·
Don't be insulted, I have known of this to happen to good mechanics:

You didn't drain the oil in October with intent to change it, but forgot to refill it, did you?
 
#12 ·
I wish you luck, I went thru the same thing, or started it last January. I still have a car that does not run right, does the craziest things and at times sounds like the rods are hanging out the side of the block.

I am thinking about PAW doing a big wheel change for me, but I don't want to go thru what I have been thru again. May just pull all the junk and go back to stock. A little faster is not worth the worry of it coming apart at any second. We are going to scan mine again this weekend I think. If it isn't figured out by this last tune/scan I am done with it. Thousands of dollars to take a perfect car into to a ticking time bomb is about the dumbest thing I have ever done,
 
#13 · (Edited)
Which reminds me, maybe tomorrow when I come up to get the turbine housing we can do some scans.
@Dabman, no problem and definitely see what Martin thinks about that knocking. Knocking usually is a bad thing but you want to try and focus on where it's coming from because that will possibly narrow down what's causing it. Could be a bad belt tensioner, could be a bad bearing, could be something else all together.
 
#15 ·
A question for everyone:

Does our K04 Turbo drain its oil passively?

I'll be honest with you guys, this is my first turbo swap and I'm not going by any instructions or knowledge besides what I find online.

I did not prime the turbo with oil before I attempted a start.

I spent the last week wondering if I just destroyed this new turbo. I work 13 hour days so this last hour is the first time I have gotten to look at the car.

I took the air intake off and spun the turbo wheel manually and do not hear any grinding or scraping or anything and it seems to spin freely.

I removed the oil feed line bolt on top and the thing is filled with oil. I had a syringe of new oil ready but the turbo wouldn't take anymore without overflowing.

Does the oil only fill and drain when the engine is running? Or should I be able to add oil while manually spinning the turbine and have it drain?
 
#18 ·
Actually in the time it took for me to write this the oil seems to have drained. I'll continue to add some, spin, and wait to get clean new oil inside.
Let me start by sharing this image:



Look for the part labeled "Turbo Charger oil return line" (lower left) and "Turbo Charger oil feed line" (upper left).

The oil feed line is connected to an Oil channel in the block that is pressurized when the engine is running. This line pushes oil to the turbo charger. The Oil Return line heads from the turbo straight down to a hole in the block just above the oil pan. The oil flows via gravity to the oil pan from the turbo and is not under any direct pressure. Without priming the turbo, you have not done any more damage to the turbo than you will your piston rings and cylinders every time you start your engine.

I installed the factory airbox again because I figured I'd start putting it back to stock one part at a time to see what is causing my running issues.

The car actually idles without sounding like its going to explode!!!

It may be an issue with the MAF sensor housing or CAI itself that was causing the weird issues.

However I still get a weird fan slowing down sound after I turn the car off.

I took a video, can you guys check it out and let me know what you think? Listen to the very end of the video after I turn the car off.

Thanks.

https://youtu.be/S52NsBloyyM
Our fans are electric and will spin down after engine shut off. This is totally normal.
 
#16 ·
Actually in the time it took for me to write this the oil seems to have drained. I'll continue to add some, spin, and wait to get clean new oil inside.
 
#17 ·
I installed the factory airbox again because I figured I'd start putting it back to stock one part at a time to see what is causing my running issues.

The car actually idles without sounding like its going to explode!!!

It may be an issue with the MAF sensor housing or CAI itself that was causing the weird issues.

However I still get a weird fan slowing down sound after I turn the car off.

I took a video, can you guys check it out and let me know what you think? Listen to the very end of the video after I turn the car off.

Thanks.

https://youtu.be/S52NsBloyyM
 
#19 ·
Thanks Robo!!!!

I feel a lot better that I didn't just throw $1000 away. With the car Running decently with the factory airbox I am concluding that my current tune from Martin isn't able to compensate for the increased air from his CAI. I believe a re-tune will solve that issue. I'll have to wait till spring to get that done because I'm looking at 2 ft of snow outside right now. I'll continue to work on my other upgrades. I should be getting the DDM Works Fuel filter here this week and I'm fixing a front wheel well fender issue from the previous owner.

Thanks for all your help!! This forum needs you :)
 
#21 ·
Thanks Robo!!!!

I feel a lot better that I didn't just throw $1000 away. With the car Running decently with the factory airbox I am concluding that my current tune from Martin isn't able to compensate for the increased air from his CAI. I believe a re-tune will solve that issue. I'll have to wait till spring to get that done because I'm looking at 2 ft of snow outside right now. I'll continue to work on my other upgrades. I should be getting the DDM Works Fuel filter here this week and I'm fixing a front wheel well fender issue from the previous owner.

Thanks for all your help!!
Glad to help but I will say there are those out there that are far more knowledgeable than me. For various reasons many don't come here any longer. I do what I can.

I have a feeling the CAI made no difference in how the car ran BUT if air was coming in after the MAF...say due to a hose not fully seated or a coupler not fully sealed or the MAF not quite seated...then I could see why changing the intake might have made a difference. It may be the ECM just needs time to learn the CAI and Martin just needs to tweak the tune a bit.

Really, a CAI on the turbo cars makes little difference. On my NA even I lost 1 whp overall while picking up more mid range torque. While the change in the power curve was welcomed, it didn't make huge differences that would make the engine run rough.
 
#20 ·
It could also be that the MAF sensor isn't reading correctly in the CAI. I think that I would look at the flow and the reading from the MAP sensor at idle and at maybe 2-3k RPM with each intake to see how close the readings are.
 
#25 ·
I got everything up and running well!!!!! After having success with the factory airbox I decided to put some silicone sealer around the MAF sensor on the CAI to see if that was where the leak was. I installed the CAI today and the car idles down fine and sounds like its running great.

I called Martin and got on the list for a re-tune come April once the snow and salt on the roads is done for the season.

Not sure what fixed my issue. Could have been that MAF Sensor, I added a little more oil, I re-secured the CAI to Turbo clamp, I cleaned out some debris from the breather valve that attaches to the intake nipple, I did a complete coolant flush (My coolant was Pink and I had added some HOAT Pink coolant to match the color last season, but I feel it was only pink because of deterioration of the dye from regular orange OAT Dex-Cool. So I flushed like 6 times, bringing it up to temp each time, with distilled water and added fresh Dex-Cool)

Can't wait for my retune and to drive the car again!!!
 
#26 ·
My bet is that either there was an air leak around the MAF or there was a fitting that wasn't tight post-MAF on the RPM intake. Basically unmetered air was getting into the intake system after the MAF causing the MAF reading to be off and thus the rest of the ECM's calculations to be off. The amount was probably small so you didn't see it at higher loads but at idle it was obvious. Glad you got it sorted and Martin has you taken care of.
 
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