Purge Pump - Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
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Purge Pump

Has anyone had problems with this unit. It seems it may have been the problem all along.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 11:54 PM
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What is it?

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-12-2020, 01:17 AM Thread Starter
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John I really don't know what it is. On the redline it sets between the two bar sensors. It is approximately 3.5 inches long. It is electronically controlled and has to do with vacuum.

Ever since the car was changed to the larger turbo, we have gotten the code for lean at idle. We were dumping 50% more fuel into the engine. We found it by pulling the oil cap off and the engine ran smoother. Our smog guy tracked it down and said replace it. We had a new one off the new engine, but for some reason Curtis did not use it. We had codes with in 50 miles saying lean at idle. We replace it yesterday, and the car has ran perfectly since. Smooth as glass and after 100 miles no codes. I am going to drive it tomorrow or Monday and see what happens.

When we replaced the part, the engine instantly ran smoother and the code was gone. I have dumped thousands of dollars into this and messed with it for over 2 years. If this is the problem, most likely a 50.00 fix I am going to be pi$$ed. But happy to have the car back. New engine, new computer, new radiator and intercooler. I am wondering if a friend of mine is having the exact same problem. He has blown two engines in the last year.

As far as I know the code does not mention the part that needs to be replaced. Will try to get more information on tomorrow or Monday.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-12-2020, 10:26 AM
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I think that would be the purge valve. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for clarifying.

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 11:22 AM
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Damn if this winds up being the problem...just glad you found it.

Like I said though, that code is so misleading. It's telling you lean at idle when the problem is you're getting too much fuel at idle.


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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skersfan View Post
John I really don't know what it is. On the redline it sets between the two bar sensors. It is approximately 3.5 inches long. It is electronically controlled and has to do with vacuum.

Ever since the car was changed to the larger turbo, we have gotten the code for lean at idle. We were dumping 50% more fuel into the engine. We found it by pulling the oil cap off and the engine ran smoother. Our smog guy tracked it down and said replace it. We had a new one off the new engine, but for some reason Curtis did not use it. We had codes with in 50 miles saying lean at idle. We replace it yesterday, and the car has ran perfectly since. Smooth as glass and after 100 miles no codes. I am going to drive it tomorrow or Monday and see what happens.

When we replaced the part, the engine instantly ran smoother and the code was gone. I have dumped thousands of dollars into this and messed with it for over 2 years. If this is the problem, most likely a 50.00 fix I am going to be pi$$ed. But happy to have the car back. New engine, new computer, new radiator and intercooler. I am wondering if a friend of mine is having the exact same problem. He has blown two engines in the last year.

As far as I know the code does not mention the part that needs to be replaced. Will try to get more information on tomorrow or Monday.
The full name for that is the Evaporative emission canister purge solenoid, but most people just call it the evap purge solenoid. Basically its function is to allow the engine to pull in the fumes from the gas tank while at cruise and light throttle conditions, decreasing the Evaporative emissions from the gas tank.

Those are super common to fail and very surprised it has never been checked, it takes just a couple minutes to check, we used to get so many calls weekly about how to check it we did a video -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qygt1_UcQ88&t=11s
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 01:16 PM
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Definitely something I will be watching for.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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I have been on the forum for 5 years, never heard it mentioned before. Did a search and nothing came up, but did not look under evap surge solenoid. Driving the car this afternoon for a little over 100 miles. Hopefully it continues to work properly.

On mine it was throwing the code for lean at idle. The computer was actually dumping 50% more fuel than required, as I understand it. Eventually it ruined #2 cylinder.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skersfan View Post
I have been on the forum for 5 years, never heard it mentioned before. Did a search and nothing came up, but did not look under evap surge solenoid. Driving the car this afternoon for a little over 100 miles. Hopefully it continues to work properly.

On mine it was throwing the code for lean at idle. The computer was actually dumping 50% more fuel than required, as I understand it. Eventually it ruined #2 cylinder.
It is pretty common on higher boosted cars to have an older solenoid fail. It is a basic little solenoid valve and when it fails, it fails open, which allows air to come through it all the time, not just when the ECM is commanding it. IF there is an air leak back at the tank also, unmetered air enters the engine and at idle, just a slight amount of unmetered air equates to big differences in fuel trims.

Typically when the solenoid fails though, it becomes really hard to fill the car with gas, which is the most common issue we run into with the failed EVAP solenoid.

Anyway, hope that gets you taken care,
Dave

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 03:31 PM
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I am familiar with that hard plastic line on the LE5 but I don't think it connects to anything like this, does it @[email protected]?


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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
I am familiar with that hard plastic line on the LE5 but I don't think it connects to anything like this, does it @[email protected]?
On the LE5 the solenoid is in a different location and is not as prone to failure, even on boosted cars it seems. The line on the LE5 does still connect back to the gas tank though, just different routing in the engine bay than the 2.0L engine.

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
On the LE5 the solenoid is in a different location and is not as prone to failure, even on boosted cars it seems. The line on the LE5 does still connect back to the gas tank though, just different routing in the engine bay than the 2.0L engine.
I ask because I have had some strange fueling issues and can't figure out why. It is hard to fill the fuel tank, but usually lifting the handle then slowly setting it down solves that. Starts aren't hard either.

The symptoms I have is that when I get on the gas, the AFRs go super lean. I'll stop the car, and they go super rich. While cruising, AFRs will swing to lean (16:1+) and super rich (13:1-) but manifold pressure will change little to none. Most of the time though, she is at 14.7:1 like she should be. Only concern is the fuel trims are WAY WAY WAY off...like sometimes +52 combined. Did a smoke test and no leaks. Only thing I haven't check for leaks is exhaust up by the manifold/turbo/downpipe area. New narrow band O2 installed.

I'm running a turbo on the LNF exhaust manifold with a LNF style downpipe with both a narrow band O2 (for the E67 ECM on the LE5) and an AEM wide band with gauge for monitoring AFRs.

It's making me mental. Just wondering if this may be my issue to. 150K miles and never changed it.


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
I ask because I have had some strange fueling issues and can't figure out why. It is hard to fill the fuel tank, but usually lifting the handle then slowly setting it down solves that. Starts aren't hard either.

The symptoms I have is that when I get on the gas, the AFRs go super lean. I'll stop the car, and they go super rich. While cruising, AFRs will swing to lean (16:1+) and super rich (13:1-) but manifold pressure will change little to none. Most of the time though, she is at 14.7:1 like she should be. Only concern is the fuel trims are WAY WAY WAY off...like sometimes +52 combined. Did a smoke test and no leaks. Only thing I haven't check for leaks is exhaust up by the manifold/turbo/downpipe area. New narrow band O2 installed.

I'm running a turbo on the LNF exhaust manifold with a LNF style downpipe with both a narrow band O2 (for the E67 ECM on the LE5) and an AEM wide band with gauge for monitoring AFRs.

It's making me mental. Just wondering if this may be my issue to. 150K miles and never changed it.
You can easily bypass it on the LE5, there is a small hard black plastic line that is coming off of the EVAP solenoid and goes to the intake manifold just above the throttle body. Just remove that line and cap off the intake manifold and see if your fuel trims change.

Here is a picture of the EVAP on the LE5, it is just behind the valve cover, under the cowl -
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2871 Hybrid turbo 2.0L - 371whp - 93 octane
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
You can easily bypass it on the LE5, there is a small hard black plastic line that is coming off of the EVAP solenoid and goes to the intake manifold just above the throttle body. Just remove that line and cap off the intake manifold and see if your fuel trims change.

Here is a picture of the EVAP on the LE5, it is just behind the valve cover, under the cowl -
Thanks for that. Will definitely try that.


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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
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Never had any problems with the car filling with gas.

Drove the car a little over 100 miles today, so close to 150 miles on the car since the last code. About 200 miles on the new engine. The car ran flawlessly again today. Even with the RE 71R's it drove nice, but extremely rough riding. Having a set of wheels powder coated and taking the Bridgestones off. They are terrible in the winter/fall and in the summer they eat the paint off the car. Will just keep them for auto cross, if I ever do it. lol

Doing the San Diego run this weekend, should get close to another 250 miles on the car. Taking all three cars and meeting up with @jgassor and possibly @Robotech.
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