Sky makes list of 11 cars that have withstood the test of time. - Page 2 - Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ChopTop View Post
On the Sol side of things it's the fastback coupe that seems to be retaining it's value, at least at Napolisclassics which has around 10 of them. Classic Cars For Sale | Napoli Classic Cars
Don't judge Sol coupe values by Napoli. He has the values jacked way up into the stratosphere. That is why he just gets more of them, and then jacks the price way up. Eventually, if the Sol Coupe becomes a classic, he might get a nibble at his pricing.



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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by LAC Sky View Post
The Sol Coupe is interesting here, the one true hard top version of our platform. That puts it, in a different category than the vert version of the Kappa, a different buyer group imo. The different special edition models, on both the Pontiac/Saturn kappa have a certain appeal to a buying group too.

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Just a point, the Sol Coupe is NOT a "true hard top version of our platform". It is a targa top convertible. If it had been considered a hard top by the U.S. government, it would have required crash test certification, which was not done.

Regardless, it's a pretty rare bird, and as such, commands a better price than it's pure convertible brothers and sisters.



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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveOC View Post
Just a point, the Sol Coupe is NOT a "true hard top version of our platform". It is a targa top convertible. If it had been considered a hard top by the U.S. government, it would have required crash test certification, which was not done.

Regardless, it's a pretty rare bird, and as such, commands a better price than it's pure convertible brothers and sisters.



.
Correct me if I am wrong, I thought they made both a Targa top and a removable Hard Top version. Oh wait now that I think about it, they never made the fully removable hard top those are convertible convertibles I think that I have seen.

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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 02:44 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong, I thought they made both a Targa top and a removable Hard Top version. Oh wait now that I think about it, they never made the fully removable hard top those are convertible convertibles I think that I have seen.
It doesn't matter whether the Targa top is hard or soft, they are both "targa" tops.

If you look closely, you will find that the rear piece of the coupe top, if removed, will result in body work that suspiciously looks identical to a convertible convertible with the top and trunk lid removed.


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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 02:57 PM
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At today's rate, that is $12,500 US plus change. That is probably a bit higher than any of the services would figure.



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Well, it is way higher than KBB lists, but pretty close to what the NADA price is...

I don't know why these two services are so far apart, but the NADA seems to be much closer to reality.

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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 06:16 PM
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KBB prices are mainly calculated from sale price using age condition and mileage to determine the depreciation.
The formulas they use work well for "normal" cars, but undervalue "special" cars.

NADA prices are calculated from actual comparable sales using relative age condition and mileage to calculate the differential.
They seem closer to reality because they are based more closely on reality.

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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveOC View Post
Just a point, the Sol Coupe is NOT a "true hard top version of our platform". It is a targa top convertible. If it had been considered a hard top by the U.S. government, it would have required crash test certification, which was not done.

Regardless, it's a pretty rare bird, and as such, commands a better price than it's pure convertible brothers and sisters.



.
While I agree with your point, maybe my wording of being a true hard top is wrong. A poor choice of words on my part. Targa top hard/soft it is a "coupe" version, NOT a true pure vert. The coupe is fixed to the body, you can't just fold that away, like you can with a vert version for the clean lines of the Kappa. Yes you do get, that open air feeling with a Targa top while driving. The coupe offers something different to a buyer of this car. A " fixed" to the body top, less the fold away top, the roll bar version, without the chrome moly steel add on. It does offer something to the prospective buyer, that wants that open air feeling while driving. It does have a trunk, without the top in the way. Crash test it for the gov't standards, as a Targa it will hold it's value to a customer, as something other than a pure true vert. Makes it unique in the Kappa culture, and maybe to the classic value it will hold down the line to some. We SKY owners don't know about a coupe version, Targa or not since we never got that version. It is unique to Pontiac only, not the Kappa in general. Rare is right, that is its value as Targa version, it was never ever intended to be a vert true or pure not withstanding. There has to be a video crash test of the coupe somewhere. Surely there has to be, a salvage yard with a coupe Targa all trashed up? How did it hold up when in a crash, compared to the true pure version of the Kappa? Roll over protection for the driver? That says something to the buyer, who are just a bit afraid of driving with no roof over your head.

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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 01:06 PM
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Actually there is no 'true pure' version. The coupe and convertible versions had been contemplated from the very start and this display model dates from 2002.



They decided to issue the convertible first as being attractive to more buyers (direct competition was the Miata, which only recently headed for coupe territory), and left the Solstice coupe too late, with them hitting the showrooms right around the time they announced the death of Pontiac.

It would be interesting to know if they also had plans to issue a Saturn version, had things gone better for the company.

Other examples of targa topped cars include the Porsche 914 and 911 and the Triumph TR-4, which had a 'Surrey' top available before Porsche got into that game. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targa_top
for a lengthy list of other removal top coupes/

1957 Jamaican MGA
1958 MGA Twincam
1962 MGA Coupe
1971 Jensen Interceptor
2007 BMW Z4M coupe
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
departed
1965 Jensen CV8
1969 MGC roadster,
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 01:16 PM
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and an asking price just over $32K?

The base was just under, $24K... so that value retained is a bit flawed. IIRC the RL was only 3K more, and the leather, monsoon, etc was about 3k... so only 30K. Am I missing anything else?

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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 01:22 PM
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The list price of a 2008 Sky RL was $29,175...before options and destination charge.
It was not hard to get to $32K, especially if you got the auto transmission.

The list price of mine was $32,455...and I believe the price went up later. Mine was a very early 2008.

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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 10:16 AM
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The coupe, the vert, the roadster. Prices vary with every version. Some of the prices we see are correct for the Kappa, imo. Low mileage, well maintained, limited production run, you get what you pay for your fun out there. 30k or 13k, still pretty good bang for your buck.

To me and I'm old school goes something like this:

Roadster: No roof what so ever. A cover maybe over the seats, but not a folding canvas top of any kind. 2 seats, 2 doors, front engine/rear wheel drive
Vertiable : A folding top soft/hard 2 seats FE/RWD maybe FE/FWD
Targa: Fixed top with removable soft/hard tops for conversion
Coupe: Fixed hard top with an optional sunroof maybe a 2+2 version GTA

Any and all combinations of these fit the bill for a permagrin kinda day.

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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 10:32 AM
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I'm old school too. The British car definitions were clear - if the car had side curtains rather than roll up windows, it was a roadster. If it had roll up windows, it was a drop-head coupe.

Jaguar is about the only car that marketed both versions at the same time - the XK 140, ending in 1957 offered both versions; the XK 150 only had the DHC version of a convertible.

I'm not saying your definition of a roadster as having no top at all is wrong, just that if it applied it would have been to a much earlier period.

1957 Jamaican MGA
1958 MGA Twincam
1962 MGA Coupe
1971 Jensen Interceptor
2007 BMW Z4M coupe
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
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1969 MGC roadster,
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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 03:49 PM
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One thing that keeps the prices up is the limited production number, not only in years but in numbers built. There were a bit more than 30K Skys built and of that only about 10K were Redlines. That adds to the conductibility. My '09 is my keeper hoping the prices on a nice low mileage will stay high, and as soon as I get the '07 fixed it will return as my daily driver.

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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TexSon View Post
One thing that keeps the prices up is the limited production number, not only in years but in numbers built. There were a bit more than 30K Skys built and of that only about 10K were Redlines. That adds to the conductibility. My '09 is my keeper hoping the prices on a nice low mileage will stay high, and as soon as I get the '07 fixed it will return as my daily driver.
I think your number of redlines is a bit off. I don't have all the numbers here in front of me, but there were 8,163 redlines built in 2008 alone. I think the total number of turbos is pretty close to half of the total Skys built.

The RL was not available for the first half of the '07 model year, but by the '09 model year most of the cars being built were RLs.

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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mbeardsley View Post
I think your number of redlines is a bit off. I don't have all the numbers here in front of me, but there were 8,163 redlines built in 2008 alone. I think the total number of turbos is pretty close to half of the total Skys built.

The RL was not available for the first half of the '07 model year, but by the '09 model year most of the cars being built were RLs.
For the United States market alone, there were about 32,500 Sky built, of which a bit more than 15,000 were Redlines. There was about 1 full year of Sky production before the Redline was introduced.



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