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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 02:04 PM
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Oh... thanks.
But it's with a little help of a good german online dictionary:

http://dict.leo.org/

You can use it in both directions. The only problem is it doesn't speak southern so I have to try to imagine which word the sound could mean. Sometimes it worked out - sometimes not
Ausgezeichnet

Bill
I may not be right, but
I can sure sound like it.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 02:24 PM
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Roadster market (MX5 vs. Kappa and others)

Back to the real business again, I just found the production numbers of the (no longer being produced) Z3 and Z3 Coupe:

In the total production range between 1996 and 2002 there run of the plant

Z3...........279,273
Z3 Coupe...17,815

Within 7 years total product time that is an average of ~ 42,500 cars per year.
I didn't find the Z4 production numbers but as far as I heard it doesn't sell better.

As Bob Lutz said: the roadster market is limited ....

And Merry Christmas to all of you from the old continent

Nico

Waiting for the Opel GT
Colour not yet decided


Helmut Herrmann Robert Tiede RIP (*15.5.1950 - † 11.5.2007)
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 04:32 PM
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Garage
HeY SKIP...Ernest won't come over unless there r grits a cookin'...Aside from the usual roadkill in Jersey, what fancies your appetite?
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 04:44 PM
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HeY SKIP...Ernest won't come over unless there r grits a cookin'...Aside from the usual roadkill in Jersey, what fancies your appetite?
Anything but roadkill. I get roadkill about three times a week an it do get old. Duh I guess roadkill is old and tenderized when I gits it too. But back ta tha question I'll be takin Hamboogers an french thighs....Skip...

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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-15-2006, 01:27 AM
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ROADKILL?... Wait, what was the topic here? Oh yeah, Nico writes well, no... what? Oh I know, I think it is the Multi-verse! In the multi-verse Sky/Sol rules all. God, this waiting is horrible.

Always remember above the best is the sky and the sky is always full of stars! SKYFURY
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-15-2006, 01:33 AM
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ROADKILL?... Wait, what was the topic here? Oh yeah, Nico writes well, no... what? Oh I know, I think it is the Multi-verse! In the multi-verse Sky/Sol rules all. God, this waiting is horrible.
Getting back on topic, MI-a -TATA is no longer #1. It is now roadkill for all Solsitices and Skys. How was that? Tied it all together...Skip..him be good at this here stuff..

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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-15-2006, 09:52 AM
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...

The better car will make the race
Like the SCCA SSB runoffs? Where the Solstice driven by Don Knowles, even though it weighs so much more than the NC and the NB Miata/MX-5, won by a 28 SECOND MARGIN?


Or the 7 Solstice drivers at the CStock SCCA Solo Nationals, all of whom took home trophies in a class of >35 cars? And the National Champion happened to be driving a...

...Solstice (Kappa). Oh, and of the seven NC MX-5 Drivers, the FASTEST driver was slower than the SLOWEST Solstice driver - and the slower Solstices were driven by people who had NEVER been to an autocross national before?

Is THAT what you mean by the "better car will make the race"?

Or do you mean that the 'better car will win the race."

Or do you mean that the "better car is whatever I want it to be, regardless of the evidence in front of us."

It ain't all about sales, either. Most would argue that the Porsche 911 is prolly a bit better car than the Solstice/SKY.... It's certainly head and shoulders above the miata. They don't sell more cars than either the kappas or miatas.

IMHO, the S2000 - handling quirks and all - is a better car in many respects than the MX-5. They sell half the number of S2000's per year. In stock config, the S2K will spank an NC MX-5 on the track.
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-15-2006, 10:12 AM
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I guess my point is the definition of 'better car'.

Slalom, 100' spaced - pretty much a wash. Around 67 mph.

Max lat - mini advantage to MX-5, which runs on summer-only tires.

Stopping distance - small advantage to MX-5, again on summer-only tires.

On the track, equal stock rules, the Kappa dominates.

On the autocross course, equal stock rules, the Kappa dominates.

Interior seating room: Kappa

Trunk Space: MX-5

Styling - beauty is in the eye of the beerholder. Finished top-down look on Kappa, vs. functionality for MX-5 in lieu of styling.

Acceleration - small advantage to MX-5 for slightly better 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.

Safety - a wash. MX-5 has side airbags, but scores are very similar for NHTSA crash ratings. Wait - I guess I have to give it to MX-5 b/c they offer active handling, the base kappas don't. But, then again, you don't have to worry about snow like you do in an MX-5, the kappa base cars come equipped with all-season tires. AND the SKY has standard OnStar.

Ride - prolly a wash.

Fit/Finish/Polish - small advantage to MX-5.

Quality - we'll have to see in the future. Prolly MX-5 advantage here.

Appeal - new-kid-on-the-block with fresh styling vs. traditional loyalists that will not relinquish the title of 'best small convertible sports car' at the drop of a hat.


It all depends on what you care about. If you're interested in 'integrated results', the Kappa is the better car. It gets around in snow, the MX-5 doesn't, and it dominates at a race course, which is a really good indicator of how well the car is balanced for the three attributes of accelerating, stopping, and turning.

If you are an MX-5 loyalist, nothing will convince you otherwise.

If you're into the 'newest and best looking, attention grabbing car,' my own personal experience - I never get a 2nd look when I drive an MX-5. I can hardly fuel up a kappa without SOMEONE asking me about the car. The kappa is the better car.

If you care about luggage room and quality reputation, then the MX-5 will probably be a better car for you.


and the list goes on...
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-15-2006, 01:03 PM
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Just no "Wow" factor

Got a chance to get a close-up look at my sister-in-law's Miata. It's cute, there are some things it does better. But it sure doesn't leave you waiting to exhale like the styling on the Sky (not to mention the performance on the RL).

When we first started considering a Sky, I was a little apprehensive about the small trunk space and manual roof. But I see you can work around the trunk issue, and my husband has convinced me that a power roof is just one more thing to go wrong. In fact, Sis went to demo taking down her Miata's hard top, and guess what? Brand new car, she couldn't get it to work.

I can honestly say there is no other convertible that I would even consider. In fact, we were going to buy a Ford Five-Hundred until the Sky captured our attention!

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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-15-2006, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by shenvalley View Post
I can honestly say there is no other convertible that I would even consider. In fact, we were going to buy a Ford Five-Hundred until the Sky captured our attention!
Wow! That's a big change. I guess you decided you really didn't need to be able to put 5 golf bags in the trunk We have a 500 also. When travelling, we throw a comforter in the trunk and leave part of the rear seat down. The dog loves her little private cave.

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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-15-2006, 06:37 PM
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Yeah, we really like the 500, and will probably still get one when we can no longer climb in and out of the Sky.

We both have trucks now, so it's ok...

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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-16-2006, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by KappaMan View Post
.....
Is THAT what you mean by the "better car will make the race"?
.....
The worldwide customers will make their decisions, the car with the better sales will be the better car in the eyes of the customers.

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Originally Posted by KappaMan View Post
.....
Most would argue that the Porsche 911 is prolly a bit better car than the Solstice/SKY
....
Porsche is another range of price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KappaMan View Post
.....
If you are an MX-5 loyalist, nothing will convince you otherwise.
....
I've never owned a MX5 and I have not even driven such a car.
Not my taste, low torque, high revs like many Japanese engines.
In the past I drove mainly Ford, AlfaRomeo and Opel. My current car is a 14 year old Opel 2.0 Turbo. That was Opels first turbo engine in Europe (C20LET) in 1992 (204hp/280Nm/206lbft) and she's still running fine.

IMO we where talking about production and sales of the MX5 vs. Kappas.
Production and sales numbers should be discussed without emotions because they are just facts.
If I would not like the Kappas, especially the Turbo engine, I would not join this forum.
But I'm also thinking about the weak points of this car like diff, cloth top and some others. With a 17 years operating experience like the Miatas, the Kappas could also have a high (or even higher) developed quality.

Nico

Waiting for the Opel GT
Colour not yet decided


Helmut Herrmann Robert Tiede RIP (*15.5.1950 - † 11.5.2007)
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-16-2006, 11:03 AM
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Good article. I'll bet the Sky will also out sell the miata after a full year also.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...1024/MICROSITE
This is very odd, in light of the fact AutoWeek just hammered the Sol in their recent issue (see link below). I guess selling well has nothing to do with quality?

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...THISWEEKSISSUE

'90 Mazda Miata original owner
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