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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-12-2015, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Women in Combat

Women in combat will put men at greater risk

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...mepage%2Fstory

I'm all for equal rights and equal pay, BUT as a veteran, I AM not for this...




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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-12-2015, 01:46 PM
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Yet another dumb idea from dumb people currently in charge.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-12-2015, 06:25 PM
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I am happy the person who wrote that article is a woman.

If a man had made the same statements, he would have been racked over the coals.

I agree with the author points about why this is not a good idea.

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-12-2015, 07:17 PM
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Didn't read it yet ( I will but am at work atm) but my thoughts are simple... our military has checks and balances in place to keep bad things from happening. But bad things still do happen. Now consider our female personnel in someone else's hands. Right now, our female citizens are covered by non-military status. Take away that safety barrier.... not happy thoughts.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-13-2015, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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I am happy the person who wrote that article is a woman.

If a man had made the same statements, he would have been racked over the coals.

I agree with the author points about why this is not a good idea.
That was precisely the reason I decided to share the article.
BTW, this smart intelligent lady is not the only woman, (or man) that agrees with her assessments..
What was interesting to me is that she hit all my valid points of why it should not happen...

I think this PC crap from the socialist/progressives has gone waaayyyy over the line IMHO..




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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-13-2015, 08:14 PM
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Throughout my lifetime, I've watched women break down barriers and demand equality. I look upon combat duty as being the ultimate expression of, "Be careful what you ask for." Ladies, welcome to equality and adulthood: it's a tough world out there- be careful. For the record, many communist countries and Israel have successfully used females in combat positions.

Last edited by carnut122; 12-14-2015 at 11:07 AM.
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-13-2015, 10:02 PM
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I'm with Carnut on this. Women in combat isn't something new. There may be some adjustment to it at first but eventually it becomes normal and business as usual.


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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-13-2015, 11:59 PM
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That's the part I object to. Business as usual. Women should be protected. They are man's most valuable resource. Call me caveman if you will, but there are just some areas that equality should NOT be at issue. I read several of the comments on that article, and names like Holm and Rousey kept coming up. Those ladies train for MONTHS for ONE FIGHT against ONE OPPONENT. Toss in that they are the outliers among women, as very VERY few can perform at their level and you just cannot consider them as a reason to allow women in combat. Note, that I did not say the military. There are plenty of things a woman can do to help the fellas who actually get out and hold the line. They just shouldn't be in combat.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-14-2015, 01:57 AM
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So you're saying that if a woman wants to be in a combat role and can do the job she shouldn't have that opportunity? We're not saying women have to be in a combat role (since there is no draft though i'm sure there will be an unofficial policy of not placing women in combat roles even if there is a need to fill those roles...fair or not, just my feeling) but rather saying they have that option if they choose...just as those mma fighters have chosen thier path. Not like women in combat roles wouldn't be trained.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-14-2015, 04:19 AM
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As a Vietnam combat vet I can't imagine a woman wanting to go through what we guys went through over there (or any conflict anywhere for that matter). That being said I know there are plenty of hard core women that would jump at the chance to mix it up in combat. I think because of natural human tendencies (help her she's frailer or weaker) there may be more injuries incurred because of guys doing stupid things to save the skin of the women. When in combat men have traditionally followed orders, tried to save their own skins if possible, and keep their minds on advancing and killing the enemy. Would it make a difference to have some cuties around you? Hmmm don't know!!
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-14-2015, 03:04 PM
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Yes, it would make a difference. I work with a mixed team. Warehouse is almost entirely men. Cashiers almost entirely women. Cute cashier running the register, it makes a noticeable difference with some of the fellas. Some in a good way, they can't wait to jump on anything she needs. Some in a bad way, they just hang around the register chatting, ignoring anything else they need to be doing. It would (don't give me "it can be trained out of them", BS) be a problem in combat situations as well. All of them? No, but enough.

Was talking with an ex-military fella today. His job back in the day was training. It was his job to ensure the soldiers did what they were supposed to do, when they were told to do it, and do it the right way. He told me himself that the ways of the military have changed DRASTICALLY and he told all his younger relatives who came to speak with him about entering the military that he could not recommend it anymore as a character building experience. He said the discipline is gone. To me, that is very telling.

As far as opportunity.... That is a multiple layered question. Do they want the opportunity to train? Lots of women do, because they see it as a challenge. But when the rubber hits the road, CAN THEY DO IT? For 99% of the women in the country, the answer is no. They can't. They aren't strong enough, aren't aggressive enough, don't care enough, aren't fast enough, aren't mean enough, aren't killers, aren't able to HATE dispassionately. This applies to men as well. But there are way WAY more men able to do those things than there are women. I mean, actually DO THEM, not train to do them as a challenge exercise.

I'll be the first to admit that there are women better at doing things than I am. But as far as being a mean sonavabitch, there are few that can match me. Training, no I don't have that. But I do have an almost bottomless capacity for violence. Most women just don't have that inner sense of self. Some of this is learned behavior, since they grew up as females. For the formative years of your life you learn that you are smaller, weaker, more fragile. But a lot of it is just sheer genetic and chromosomal traits that most women just do not have. I KNOW in my BONES that I can pick up and break most people I meet. Most women do not have that. They will never have that. They have to rely on training and skill to get to that point. The military does not provide that type of training to most combat troops.

Is it fair? Well, that's not the question, now is it? The question is, can women serve in combat situations as effectively as men? Additionally, can they serve in combat situations alongside men without causing unnecessary complications and/or casualties? In my opinion, the answers will always be no.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-14-2015, 03:38 PM
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Doc, didn't the forces you faced in Vietnam employ women combatants? Do you think this may come down to more of a cultural thing than gender thing? Maybe it isn't how well women could perform the job but rather western culture and the traditional values men assign to females?

If the issue is how men react to females in combat then wouldn't this be something that, over time much, just as women in the workplace or in positions of authority beyond traditional roles like teachers, would eventually become normal and thus a non issue?
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-14-2015, 05:17 PM
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First, let me say, I agree with a lot (maybe most) of what you said. There ARE gender differences that will never go away. But Robo is also right that many of the issues are social/societal. But just a couple of points in particular...

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Yes, it would make a difference. I work with a mixed team. Warehouse is almost entirely men. Cashiers almost entirely women. Cute cashier running the register, it makes a noticeable difference with some of the fellas. Some in a good way, they can't wait to jump on anything she needs. Some in a bad way, they just hang around the register chatting, ignoring anything else they need to be doing. It would (don't give me "it can be trained out of them", BS) be a problem in combat situations as well. All of them? No, but enough.
This is so ironic. It's exactly the kind of reason that strict Muslims have their women covered from head to toe in Burkhas. Who knew we were so alike?

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I'll be the first to admit that there are women better at doing things than I am. But as far as being a mean sonavabitch, there are few that can match me. Training, no I don't have that. But I do have an almost bottomless capacity for violence. Most women just don't have that inner sense of self. Some of this is learned behavior, since they grew up as females. For the formative years of your life you learn that you are smaller, weaker, more fragile. But a lot of it is just sheer genetic and chromosomal traits that most women just do not have.
Again, I agree, mostly. But look at that wife of the guy that shot up San Bernadino. Calmly dropped her 6-month-old off in the morning, and then went out to shoot and kill dozens of people - probably knowing she'd not return alive.

There are some women that DO have that 'intestinal fortitude'. If those women want to become soldiers in any given role, and can hack it, then let 'em.

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-14-2015, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
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...
Again, I agree, mostly. But look at that wife of the guy that shot up San Bernadino. Calmly dropped her 6-month-old off in the morning, and then went out to shoot and kill dozens of people - probably knowing she'd not return alive.

There are some women that DO have that 'intestinal fortitude'. If those women want to become soldiers in any given role, and can hack it, then let 'em.
A - Perhaps so, but that cowardly biacth knew she was going against unarmed civilians, not fully trained combat infantry solders or marines..

B - Agreed on the second point, BUT:

Let copy and paste from the solsticeforum..

Well that was not the case during WWII my friend. The Japanese used "sex slaves" from women that they captured (mainly Korean and Chinese) and kept them prisoners for "pillowing" purposes.. They called them "Comfort Women"..

We shall see how people will feel when the "Selective Service" now could change and we'll have dainty women, like your mother, your sister, your wife, your girlfriend, hell they might make grandma register... Registering is one thing, what are you going to do if your daughter gets drafted? I don't want my young daughter to be drafted, IF she, or they want to join is one thing, mandatory registering for women 18 YO is out of the question...

Here's the current law, to wit;
Under current law, all male U.S. citizens are required to register with Selective Service within 30 days of their 18th birthday. In addition, non-U.S.-citizen males between the ages of 18 and 25 (inclusive) living in the United States must register.

Finally all I'll say is look what would happen to our female captures IF IS gets a hold of them, Sorta of the same scenario the Korean and Chinese women experienced during the war.. I for one do not want to piut our combatants in a position of losing their life in order to protect a female, that was never qualified and should have never there to begin with..




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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-14-2015, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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...
Again, I agree, mostly. But look at that wife of the guy that shot up San Bernadino. Calmly dropped her 6-month-old off in the morning, and then went out to shoot and kill dozens of people - probably knowing she'd not return alive.

There are some women that DO have that 'intestinal fortitude'. If those women want to become soldiers in any given role, and can hack it, then let 'em.
A - Perhaps so, but that cowardly biacth knew she was going against unarmed civilians, not fully trained combat infantry solders or marines..

B - Agreed on the second point, BUT:

Let copy and paste from the solsticeforum..

Well that was not the case during WWII my friend. The Japanese used "sex slaves" from women that they captured (mainly Korean and Chinese) and kept them prisoners for "pillowing" purposes.. They called them "Comfort Women"..

We shall see how people will feel when the "Selective Service" now could change and we'll have dainty women, like your mother, your sister, your wife, your girlfriend, hell they might make grandma register... Registering is one thing, what are you going to do if your daughter gets drafted? I don't want my young daughter to be drafted, IF she, or they want to join is one thing, mandatory registering for women 18 YO is out of the question...

Here's the current law, to wit;
Under current law, all male U.S. citizens are required to register with Selective Service within 30 days of their 18th birthday. In addition, non-U.S.-citizen males between the ages of 18 and 25 (inclusive) living in the United States must register. Finally all I'll say is look what would happen to our female captures IF IS gets a hold of them, Sorta of the same scenario the Korean and Chinese women experienced during the war.. I for one do not want to piut our combatants in a position of losing their life in order to protect a female, that was never qualified and should have never there to begin with..




Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties. Abraham Lincoln

The Constitution is essentially an obsolete charter of negative liberties. Barack Obama
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